5 ms·

I'd guess the news cycle, and the increasingly over-the-top antics, political and otherwise, that it seems to spawn.

by Tcepsa 5y ago

pandeiro 5y ago
Yep, exactly my interpretation. And I agree with GP about the harm of those circuses. It's diversion-by-division.
benrbray 5y ago
That's what I meant by circus as well, but it seemed like the person replying disagreed with me. We have some massive societal problems to deal with relating to wealth inequality, housing, and public health, but none of it seems to matter as a large segment of the population is convinced that, e.g. transgender people wanting to use the restroom that matches their presented gender is the largest ongoing attack on our collective well-being. The "circus" distracting from the general public's lack of bread (healthcare, labor rights, etc.).
- ta8645 5y ago
  > transgender people wanting to use the restroom that matches their presented gender is the largest ongoing attack on our collective well-being. Understand what you're saying, but you could have just as easily complained about the pro-transgender-restroom-warriors fighting for unimportant things instead of all the other issues you listed.
  - benrbray 5y ago
    The "both sides" argument doesn't really hold up to scrutiny. The key factor is that there is no measurable cost to, say, conservatives, for conceding on LGBT rights--just general talk in the abstract about moral decay. There is a real, measurable cost to gay people, when they can't get married like everyone else, and to transgender people when they can't comfortably relieve themselves in public. The cost is also to society -- how does society benefit by bullying LGBT people into severe depression when they could otherwise go on to be productive members of society?
    - ta8645 5y ago
      You've made a lot of rather large mental leaps that i'd rather not debate right now. But what your original comment lamented was the distraction from the very important issues you listed. Ignoring the merit of the bathroom arguments for a moment, there is definitely a similar associated opportunity cost. If it's not as important as the other issues you listed, it should perhaps be dealt with later...
      - Dylan16807 5y ago
        Protecting people's basic rights and dignity is important. Or to put it a different way, you can have an issue where the different factions are not equally important, are not symmetrical. If I want to burn down all green houses because I dislike green, I am engaging in a petty distraction. If someone tried to stop me because they prefer blue that would also be a petty distraction. But the people stopping me because they're anti-arson are doing something important and very much not a petty distraction.
        ta8645 5y ago
        No. There is an opportunity cost for every action you take. Bathroom choices don't matter if the world is on fire and in danger of causing mass extinction and hardship due to global warming. There will be nobody around to mislabel or choose the wrong bathroom. If you truly believed we were in actual peril, you wouldn't waste time on pronouns and bathrooms.. you'd be too busy trying to save the human race. Since that isn't what you're doing, you make all the hand wringing about climate look insincere.
        Dylan16807 5y ago
        People are allowed to care about multiple things, and don't have to dedicate their life to the most important cause they can think of. Your dismissal could be used for basically anything. Why waste time arresting a mere murderer? Why stop a company from dumping toxic waste, it's only a few barrels. Why inspect a building to make sure it doesn't collapse, those are super rare. If you actually cared about people you'd be working on one of the biggest five problems and not those!

I'd guess the news cycle, and the increasingly over-the-top antics, political and otherwise, that it seems to spawn.

by Tcepsa 5y ago

I'd guess the news cycle, and the increasingly over-the-top antics, political and otherwise, that it seems to spawn.

pandeiro 5y ago

Yep, exactly my interpretation. And I agree with GP about the harm of those circuses. It's diversion-by-division.

benrbray 5y ago

That's what I meant by circus as well, but it seemed like the person replying disagreed with me. We have some massive societal problems to deal with relating to wealth inequality, housing, and public health, but none of it seems to matter as a large segment of the population is convinced that, e.g. transgender people wanting to use the restroom that matches their presented gender is the largest ongoing attack on our collective well-being. The "circus" distracting from the general public's lack of bread (healthcare, labor rights, etc.).

ta8645 5y ago
> transgender people wanting to use the restroom that matches their presented gender is the largest ongoing attack on our collective well-being. Understand what you're saying, but you could have just as easily complained about the pro-transgender-restroom-warriors fighting for unimportant things instead of all the other issues you listed.
- benrbray 5y ago
  The "both sides" argument doesn't really hold up to scrutiny. The key factor is that there is no measurable cost to, say, conservatives, for conceding on LGBT rights--just general talk in the abstract about moral decay. There is a real, measurable cost to gay people, when they can't get married like everyone else, and to transgender people when they can't comfortably relieve themselves in public. The cost is also to society -- how does society benefit by bullying LGBT people into severe depression when they could otherwise go on to be productive members of society?
  - ta8645 5y ago
    You've made a lot of rather large mental leaps that i'd rather not debate right now. But what your original comment lamented was the distraction from the very important issues you listed. Ignoring the merit of the bathroom arguments for a moment, there is definitely a similar associated opportunity cost. If it's not as important as the other issues you listed, it should perhaps be dealt with later...
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      Protecting people's basic rights and dignity is important. Or to put it a different way, you can have an issue where the different factions are not equally important, are not symmetrical. If I want to burn down all green houses because I dislike green, I am engaging in a petty distraction. If someone tried to stop me because they prefer blue that would also be a petty distraction. But the people stopping me because they're anti-arson are doing something important and very much not a petty distraction.
      - ta8645 5y ago
        No. There is an opportunity cost for every action you take. Bathroom choices don't matter if the world is on fire and in danger of causing mass extinction and hardship due to global warming. There will be nobody around to mislabel or choose the wrong bathroom. If you truly believed we were in actual peril, you wouldn't waste time on pronouns and bathrooms.. you'd be too busy trying to save the human race. Since that isn't what you're doing, you make all the hand wringing about climate look insincere.
        Dylan16807 5y ago
        People are allowed to care about multiple things, and don't have to dedicate their life to the most important cause they can think of. Your dismissal could be used for basically anything. Why waste time arresting a mere murderer? Why stop a company from dumping toxic waste, it's only a few barrels. Why inspect a building to make sure it doesn't collapse, those are super rare. If you actually cared about people you'd be working on one of the biggest five problems and not those!