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One person's war on junk mail (1996)
- exabrial 5y agoIf I weighed the total amount of unsolicited bulk physical mail I got each year, it'd be several hundred pounds. I can't think of the amount of diesel fuel used to cut the trees down, chop up the pulp, make the paper, deliver the paper, print the paper, deliver the paper to my mailbox, then haul the trash away to dump. I'm 100% for massive postage increases on non-parcels, or complete elimination of this practice otherwise.
- jnwatson 5y agoIt is easier to me to imagine the waste involved; I live in a high rise. There's a large trash bin in the middle of the mail room that's empty at the beginning of the day and full at the end. 90% of the USPS' job is to transmit dead trees to our waste facilities.
- SilverRed 5y agoBut think of all the jobs and money involved in moving those trees.
- maxwell 5y agoHow does the energy usage compare to digital advertising and cloud computing?
- Ekaros 5y agoOne starts to wonder should we just make advertising illegal. As it seems, it is waste in both paper form and as online adds with all the tracking involved...
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y agowhat's the line between advertising and protected speech? trick question: there is no line.
- maxwell 5y agoBillboards aren't banned in your state? https://movia.media/moving-billboard-blog/why-is-billboard-advertising-not-allowed-in-maine-vermont-hawaii-and-alaska https://movia.media/moving-billboard-blog/why-is-billboard-a...
- sio8ohPi 5y agoThe supreme court, unanimously, in Rowan v United States Post Office Department, "categorically reject[ed] the argument that a vendor has a right under the Constitution or otherwise to send unwanted material into the home of another."
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago"Consequently, a mailer’s right to communicate ceased at the mailbox of an unwilling addressee." I would be very suprised if SCOTUS would agree this ruling supports any legislative attempt to preemptively block "communication".
- TchoBeer 5y ago"jobs" and "money" don't do anything for society. Junk mail is a drain on resources that doesn't produce anything useful. If the problem is that too many people are unemployed and there aren't enough jobs to go around, that shouldn't be an excuse to not put an end to an incredibly wasteful and annoying practice.
- pavel_lishin 5y agoI think SilverRed was being sarcastic.
- TchoBeer 5y agoOops.
- CamelCaseName 5y agoJunk mail is "useful" because it distributes information. It's much less effective than, say, books, because there's a lot of overhead and waste in sending junk mail to people who don't care for them. Beyond that, it also subsidizes other mail deliveries. If mail wasn't being delivered to every address, having someone drop off a parcel just for you would be much more expensive.
- msla 5y ago> Beyond that, it also subsidizes other mail deliveries. If mail wasn't being delivered to every address, having someone drop off a parcel just for you would be much more expensive. This is a political decision which indicts the political regime the USPS operates under.
- omgwtfbyobbq 5y agoDo you mean the American political system in general?
- msla 5y ago
- throwawayboise 5y agoJunk mail is vital for the USPS finances. It's over 20% of their income, ~$16 billion/yr. It's a shame. Anthing I get in the mail that's not a first-class letter addressed to me by name goes into the trash unopened. But without the will to significantly downsize and reorganize the USPS it is a necessary revenue stream. https://about.usps.com/newsroom/national-releases/2019/1114-usps-reports-fiscal-year-2019-results.htm https://about.usps.com/newsroom/national-releases/2019/1114-...
- cpeterso 5y ago> Junk mail is vital for the USPS finances. It's over 20% of their income, ~$16 billion/yr. I wonder how time and money processing and delivering that junk mail cost them. They could forgo that $16B and have more time to provide better service for non-junk mail.
- toomuchtodo 5y agoSupport postal banking and postal identify proofing services, both of which would generate revenue that could replace suboptimal activities such as junk mail.
- joe-collins 5y agoExcept, of course, that the USPS is categorically not a business, and no fundamental barrier exists to direct funding from the federal government, as with many other federal services. It has historically been expected to self-finance, and doing so may appeal to some sense of prudence, but that does not need to be the case if the externalities of doing so exceeds the income generated.
- HenryBemis 5y agoI can be running around my block waving at people. Someone may be paying me $16bn per year to do this. The fact that this is a "$16bn effort" doesn't make it useful. Also consider that if this is a "$16bn effort" the loss is multiple of that. Think of the advertisers (and their clients money), the effort to discard/recycle this garbage etc. The loss for humanity is greater than $16bn. Is this 'type of business' is to be eliminated, then USPS will drop the respective fraction of their use-less resources (staff, trucks, sorting machines, etc.).
- Scoundreller 5y agoI wonder what the lost efficiency is on each tree --> junk mail when it gets burned. I know pulp/papermaking has combustable byproducts, but I don't know how much is "lost": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraft_process#Byproducts_and_emissions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraft_process#Byproducts_and_e... I save most of mine up for the cabin, but it may or may not lead to a lot of extra chimney sweeping.
- 3GuardLineups 5y agoWe can all aspire to be like Bob Beken
- schemescape 5y agoI’ve had luck opting myself out of junk mail, but how do I stop junk mail that is addressed to a previous resident? Writing “return to sender; not at this address” has not noticeably helped (and in one case the mail was re-delivered to me anyway...).
- joe-collins 5y agoI've had some success with NOT AT THIS ADDRESS in red on the front. I also occasionally pay for a month's use of the Paper Karma app. https://www.paperkarma.com/ https://www.paperkarma.com/ Notable bad actors who refuse to acknowledge either: • A previous tenant in this apartment received catalogs from MCX (Marine Corps Exchange, not MXC, the crypto exchange). Lots of complaints online about these guys sending unstoppable spam. • A local self-storage facility sends monthly notices to a previous tenant, and despite returned mail, phone calls, and even an in-person visit, insists that they cannot stop sending those letters because they are obligated by law to "make every attempt" to contact that person.
- schemescape 5y agoThanks, I might try the Paper Karma app since it claims to deal with previous residents’ mail too (unlike the DMA opt-out site). My other idea is to look up the previous resident on a “living person” search site and then notify the mailer of their (supposed) new address myself. I’d hate to have it redirect the torrent of mail to some other innocent person, but hopefully it will just go to the rightful addressee.
- joe-collins 5y agoFor the self-storage spam, I eventually just googled the name and region and found contact information for a plausible match. I sent them an email explaining the situation, and while I never heard back from them, I haven't seen any more mail yet...
- aendruk 5y agoI’ve had the most success with contacting the sender and telling them to stop sending mail to this address, no mention of the mismatched name. What I don’t know how to solve is that after successfully unsubscribing from a particular spam mailing I just started receiving apartment n+1’s instead. What am I supposed to do, work my way through the whole building?
- cosmotic 5y agoEver wonder how much it costs to deliver unaddressed junk mail? https://eddm.usps.com/eddm/customer/routeSearch.action https://eddm.usps.com/eddm/customer/routeSearch.action
- aendruk 5y agoThanks, I didn’t know there was a name for this. “EDDM” is the most infuriating form of spam as there’s nothing I can do to opt out. I diligently return every piece to the misdirected box in pathetic protest.
- SilverRed 5y agoIt's insane to me that you have no way to opt out. In Australia you just stick a "no junk mail" sign on your box and its now illegal to send you promotional material.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- jeramey 5y agoI always wonder if these kinds of stories are real, and this one does seem to be. It was reported in the San Diego Union-Tribune. https://digital.sandiego.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1172&context=print-media https://digital.sandiego.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=117... (PDF link)
- Cerium 5y agoI think you are referring to the clip on page 64?
- acomjean 5y agoI've had luck with the Direct Marketing Association list removal service. I signed up years ago and it works pretty well for most credit card offers and such. It cost money though. Not a lot. I think they've rebranded since I signed up, but this looks like this is it: https://www.dmachoice.org/static/faq.php https://www.dmachoice.org/static/faq.php Lamentably I found myself on some charities mail lists. They're not part of the Direct Marketing Association and will send you stuff unsolicited (gloves? seriously?) in an attempt to guilt you into joining..
- dharmab 5y agoYou can refuse mail by writing "Refused" on it and returning it to the mail system. https://about.usps.com/what-we-are-doing/current-initiatives/delivery-growth-management/section-611.pdf https://about.usps.com/what-we-are-doing/current-initiatives...
- user3939382 5y agoFunny just yesterday I was going to put a letter in the mailbox on the street that I had marked this way when I saw the postman. I asked him if I should give it to him or put it in the box, he said, "It doesn't matter we just throw it away."
- floatingatoll 5y agoIf you don't put a stamp on it, it's probably going in the trash. If you put a stamp on it, they might return it.
- derefr 5y agoThe really annoying thing is that the service here is only available to US residents, even though much of the bulk mail I receive as a Canadian comes from US businesses that only bother to check the DMA list (and not the Canadian equivalent) even for the operations of their Canadian subsidiaries. Given that it's a list for companies to obey, the service shouldn't care what country I live in, but only where the company sending the mail is headquartered, no?
- annoyingnoob 5y agoI've opted out of most junk mail. There are a few places that do not honor that request. If its addressed to you the USPS will deliver it. My biggest issue since opting out of most things is that the postal carrier will still deliver the grocery coupons, coupon packages addressed to a different address. I've complained so many times, USPS just stuffs them in and doesn't care. One thing you cannot opt out of is Every Door Delivery Mail from USPS. USPS allows advertisers, typically local folks, to buy delivery to an entire route and not be required to individually address the mail items.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- freediver 5y agoCare sharing how exactly did you opt out? Mails addressed at "resident at ..." drive me crazy.
- ranieuwe 5y agoJust wondered the same and found this: https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0262-stopping-unsolicited-mail-phone-calls-and-email https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0262-stopping-unsolici...
- freediver 5y agoAnd I found about this http://www.dmaconsumers.org/offmailinglist.html http://www.dmaconsumers.org/offmailinglist.html
- annoyingnoob 5y agoThis took care of a lot of it: https://www.dmachoice.org https://www.dmachoice.org I think this one is for the grocery coupons: https://www.valassis.com/opt-out/ https://www.valassis.com/opt-out/ I had to make a lot of phone calls and ask to be taken off the list.
- ranieuwe 5y ago
- cmckn 5y agoThe worst part of renting is moving into a new place and having to start the journey of cancelling the Penny Saver subscription of a tenant that lived there a decade ago. Most of these subscriptions can't even be truly cancelled; they restart after several years if you don't bump it. I remember hearing last summer during the USPS dumpster fires that junk mail subsidizes postage for the rest of us -- I'd gladly pay more to end this silliness.
- seanwilson 5y agoIn the UK, I found putting a simple "No junk mail - addressed mail only" sticker on letterbox flaps cuts down junk mail by about 90% (I don't think it has any legal power though, it's just a request). It's rare to get a lot of addressed junk mail but maybe that's just me. There's a few lists you can sign up to for opting out of junk mail as well that maybe helped too: https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/293/~/how-do-i-opt-out-of-receiving-any-leaflets-or-unaddressed-promotional-material%3F https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/...
- fuzzy2 5y agoSimilar in Germany. I do wonder though if that just makes the trash collect elsewhere or if they actually print less spam.
- grishka 5y agoIn Russia junk mail isn't handled by the postal service. The companies that spam people just hire someone to stuff leaflets into people's mailboxes. There's not much you can do to stop it, especially if you live in a large building.
- squarefoot 5y agoThat's a serious issue also in my building of about 70 apartments, each one receiving some leaflets every day in the mailbox then throwing them away in a dedicated trashcan which has to be emptied at least twice a week. No way to complain with anyone since there's no postal service involved. During a residents meeting I suggested collecting all than junk for one year, then delivering it back in person to all businesses that spammed us, making it clear that they'd be going to be submerged by their trash, and apparently someone was considering that option. The problem is the huge waste of paper and materials, but the cost of printing and delivering by underpaid improvised irregular workers is so low that say only 2 people actually reading that junk might turn it into a deal for the spammers.
- fuzzy2 5y ago
- Macha 5y agoThere's a local takeaway that easily sends me 10 pieces of junk mail a year. Some days when I'm feeling grumpy, I imagine myself and a few neighbours storing it up and returning a years worth to the takeaway so they can deal with disposing of it.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- omgwtfbyobbq 5y agoIt's nice to see a business rather than the consumer on the other side of a unfavorable contact.
- may13noon 5y agoThe most annoying thing about those junk mail is that it actually distracts me from focusing on really important notices.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- jdking 5y agoFight back by mailing back any unsolicited pre-paid envelopes, stuffed with other random junk mail you’ve received.
- hyperman1 5y agoA decade ago I was getting junk mail from citibank. They were offering loans. It was just on the news how these loans were very expensive, basically bankrupting people and hoping social security would pick up the tab. It contains a reply enveloppe, so I put all their junk in there, write 'stop sending me junk' on it, and drop it in the postal box. Basically, anything costing them money is fine. Next week, same junk, same reply. Then I start putting all kindd of other junk mail in the enveloppe. They wont give up. We're rebuilding the house, so I fill a box with stone dirt, tape the reply enveloppe on top, and send it back. They actually phone me with a complaint, and demand I stop it. I politely decline, ask how they see themselves as good guys while pushing people in poverty, and congratulate them with their box. Presumably that got trough, as I never receive anything from citibank again.
- dred_prte_rbrts 5y agoYou know that you can just opt out of credit based offers and it stops the majority of this kind of mail? No need to find rocks to mail.
- hyperman1 5y agoNot living in the USA, and I am not aware of a local equivalent.
- axiolite 5y agoThe California CCPA makes this much easier than it used-to be. Find the company's website. They'll have a "Do Not Sell" link on the home page or at least in the Privacy Policy it'll say California Privacy Rights. They'll have an e-mail address or a web form to fill out to request they delete your information from their system. I've had some hassles with a large minority of companies telling me they can't find me in their system, so now I always take a picture of the address label, and include that where possible to eliminate that nonsense. Bit of a hassle to chase each company that's mailing you, but it works to eliminate any annoyances.
- EricE 5y agoI'm surprised that there aren't any "what's a check" comments!
- omgwtfbyobbq 5y agoJunk mail is annoying. For whatever reason many local ads have switched from being mailed to being delivered by someone in a car (tossing them out the window in a plastic sleeve). It's slightly more annoying and I suspect it significantly increases the GHG emissions associated with those ads because there's an extra piece of plastic and because a second vehicle is being used to deliver a set of ads that used to come in the mail.