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Except that the people who are worried can simply get vaccinated themselves. There may be a few people who can not be vaccinated (old and very sick), but it ha

Except that the people who are worried can simply get vaccinated themselves. There may be a few people who can not be vaccinated (old and very sick), but it hardly seems appropriate to restrict billions of people just to protect those few. It would be more efficient to isolate them, which most of them probably already are (in care homes or hospitals).

p49k 5y ago
Seems incredibly selfish to force vulnerable people into isolation because some people allow themselves to get absorbed into conspiracy theories about a harmless vaccine. Requiring certain vaccines for travel has been something that has existed for decades and was never controversial.
- kofddfjdfdfdff 5y ago
  It's not a harmless vaccine. You want to mandate vaccinating people who are at no risk from the disease, and expose them to unnecessary risks. And that means children - all to protect sick people who for the most part are already isolated. They are in hospitals or sick people homes, where you can protect them in other ways. Also the comparison with other vaccines does not automatically make sense. All vaccines are not the same. At least in my country, so far recommendations for vaccinations had been "conservative" to only vaccinate against things that seem especially risky. There is a reason why people are not simply being vaccinated against all possible diseases.
  - ben_bai 5y ago
    > At least in my country, so far recommendations for vaccinations had been "conservative" to only vaccinate against things that seem especially risky. Well then good news, COVID-19 is "especially risky".
    - kofddfjdfdfdff 5y ago
      I should have added - risky for the person who might contract the disease. In any case, yes, both disease and vaccination have risks, that should be weighed against each other. Matters are complicated because risks differ among different age groups.
  - p49k 5y ago
    First of all it’s entirely false that it’s just “sick and old” people affected; there are also children and young adults with immune disorders who can live somewhat normal lives today because of minor sacrifices from others such as vaccinations. Secondly, sick and old people are also human beings who deserve consideration. We mandate that people take all kinds of minor risks in life; that’s always been part of being in a society. The reason vaccine advice is conservative is because anti-intellectualism and belief in conspiracy theories has gone off the charts and politicians now have to coddle these people. It’s a collective mental illness.
    - kofddfjdfdfdff 5y ago
      There is a nonzero risk to the vaccination. I really don't understand why you consider the plight of the people who can't get vaccinated, and dismiss the plight of the people who die or come down with severe disabilities from the vaccination.
      - p49k 5y ago
        The mental disease of many anti-intellectuals and conspiracy theorists is the inability or refusal to understand scale and proportion; it's the single source of an enormous amount of flawed logic. Scale and proportion is the reason. 7 per 1,000,000 risk of blood clotting if you are a woman between 18-49 (and basically no risk if you're a man or outside that range, or use one of the vaccines that have not shown this risk). This is on the level of shark attacks and getting hit by lightning. Actually getting COVID has more serious risks and a much higher rate of being affected by them. We regularly ask of citizens to do things that have a 7 per 1,000,000 risk of injury; it's a reasonable ask.
        kofddfjdfdfdff 5y ago
        Your comparison does not make sense, though. The question is, how many people who are not at risk from the disease do you have to vaccinate, and how many people are there who can not be vaccinated and would contract Covid-19. Let's say with your numbers there are thousands of (young) people who die from the vaccination. How many people who can't be vaccinated would die if those young people would not get the vaccination? What other risky things to we ask citizens to do, exactly? People certainly choose to do other risky things. But how many are mandated?
spicybright 5y ago
Vaccines aren't 100% bullet proof. The few people effected are still people. If you were one of them, wouldn't you be fairly distraught by your point of view?
- kofddfjdfdfdff 5y ago
  But what about the people who died from the vaccine? They don't bother you at all? I think their relatives are pretty distraught right now.

p49k 5y ago

Seems incredibly selfish to force vulnerable people into isolation because some people allow themselves to get absorbed into conspiracy theories about a harmless vaccine. Requiring certain vaccines for travel has been something that has existed for decades and was never controversial.

kofddfjdfdfdff 5y ago
It's not a harmless vaccine. You want to mandate vaccinating people who are at no risk from the disease, and expose them to unnecessary risks. And that means children - all to protect sick people who for the most part are already isolated. They are in hospitals or sick people homes, where you can protect them in other ways. Also the comparison with other vaccines does not automatically make sense. All vaccines are not the same. At least in my country, so far recommendations for vaccinations had been "conservative" to only vaccinate against things that seem especially risky. There is a reason why people are not simply being vaccinated against all possible diseases.
- ben_bai 5y ago
  > At least in my country, so far recommendations for vaccinations had been "conservative" to only vaccinate against things that seem especially risky. Well then good news, COVID-19 is "especially risky".
  - kofddfjdfdfdff 5y ago
    I should have added - risky for the person who might contract the disease. In any case, yes, both disease and vaccination have risks, that should be weighed against each other. Matters are complicated because risks differ among different age groups.
- p49k 5y ago
  First of all it’s entirely false that it’s just “sick and old” people affected; there are also children and young adults with immune disorders who can live somewhat normal lives today because of minor sacrifices from others such as vaccinations. Secondly, sick and old people are also human beings who deserve consideration. We mandate that people take all kinds of minor risks in life; that’s always been part of being in a society. The reason vaccine advice is conservative is because anti-intellectualism and belief in conspiracy theories has gone off the charts and politicians now have to coddle these people. It’s a collective mental illness.
  - kofddfjdfdfdff 5y ago
    There is a nonzero risk to the vaccination. I really don't understand why you consider the plight of the people who can't get vaccinated, and dismiss the plight of the people who die or come down with severe disabilities from the vaccination.
    - p49k 5y ago
      The mental disease of many anti-intellectuals and conspiracy theorists is the inability or refusal to understand scale and proportion; it's the single source of an enormous amount of flawed logic. Scale and proportion is the reason. 7 per 1,000,000 risk of blood clotting if you are a woman between 18-49 (and basically no risk if you're a man or outside that range, or use one of the vaccines that have not shown this risk). This is on the level of shark attacks and getting hit by lightning. Actually getting COVID has more serious risks and a much higher rate of being affected by them. We regularly ask of citizens to do things that have a 7 per 1,000,000 risk of injury; it's a reasonable ask.
      - kofddfjdfdfdff 5y ago
        Your comparison does not make sense, though. The question is, how many people who are not at risk from the disease do you have to vaccinate, and how many people are there who can not be vaccinated and would contract Covid-19. Let's say with your numbers there are thousands of (young) people who die from the vaccination. How many people who can't be vaccinated would die if those young people would not get the vaccination? What other risky things to we ask citizens to do, exactly? People certainly choose to do other risky things. But how many are mandated?

spicybright 5y ago

Vaccines aren't 100% bullet proof. The few people effected are still people. If you were one of them, wouldn't you be fairly distraught by your point of view?

kofddfjdfdfdff 5y ago
But what about the people who died from the vaccine? They don't bother you at all? I think their relatives are pretty distraught right now.