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What!? I hope your joking. Firstly, you cant legally force someone to have a home without violating their rights. Even if you force someone to have a home you c

by anfilt 5y ago

What!? I hope your joking. Firstly, you cant legally force someone to have a home without violating their rights. Even if you force someone to have a home you cant force them to use it. Also what differentiates someone who is homeless vs going on extended camping/hiking trip. The biggest problem from a large homeless population is trespassing and litter to those around them. The act of not having a permanent residence is hardly criminal. I would have to lookup it up again but pretty sure there is a supreme court case from around the great depression era that says its unconstitutional to criminalize not having a residence. Its the other things some homeless do that is the problem, and honestly a lot them need help and a lot don't have friends or family to help them.

anfilt 5y ago
The heck what are the down votes for. The government cant force someone to buy housing first. Its one thing to criminlize littering or sleeping/tresspassing on other peoples property. Its a whole an other thing to criminalize the act of not having a permanent residence.
- anovikov 5y ago
  I strongly believe in exactly that: not having a permanent resident address (even if you don't actually live there, it's OK to live elsewhere if you can afford), being a felony. In Belarus, it works this way: if someone is caught in the street in a distressed state or suspected to be a homeless, he's brought into a sorting station (приемник-распределитель), where he is checked. If he can produce papers showing where he lives, get in contact with relatives and it appears obvious that it was an accident (someone partied too much and got "lost"), he's released, although his employer is notified. If not, they check if he's an alcoholic or a drug-addict, he's placed into a prison-style rehab. Escape from it is difficult and it is punishable with an actual prison. After rehab, they are given a dorm bed and a job, and a social worker tracks to make sure they stick with it. If he's mentally disturbed, a commission examines him and puts him into a prison-like mental institution, with similar consequences. If he already been in any of the above and it didn't help, they try again, but after ~3 tries, he goes to prison. It works. There are no bums in Belarus. Streets are safe. And yes, technically there is no way to legally become homeless in Belarus. You parents can't check you out when you grow up unless you buy a place of your own and can transfer your permanent registration there - there is no way to not have a permanent registration, citizen registration office just won't accept an application to "check out my 25 year old son coz it's time for him to live on his own" if he doesn't have that new place to check in to. There are some cracks in that system so a very very small fraction of people (<1%) end up without registration, but it is technically illegal (although no one will bother before they find you in the street drunk), and must be in theory impossible. And yes, registration is separate from ownership. You can sell your apartment with people still registered there and they retain that registration and a right to live there (ofc when you file papers to buy an apartment, there's a way to check if there are any people still registered, so no one in their sane mind would buy a place with anyone still registered). So here's a fix: make it legally impossible to not have a place of your own, and make it illegal not to.
michaelmrose 5y ago
More recently Martin v. Boise https://nlihc.org/resource/supreme-court-upholds-ruling-homeless-people-cannot-be-criminally-punished-sleeping https://nlihc.org/resource/supreme-court-upholds-ruling-home...
- anfilt 5y ago
  I was thinking of an older case, but that just even expands upon the case I was thinking about. Let me try and find it.
- anfilt 5y ago
  So it looks the first round of supreme court actions along this regard I was thinking of started with: Lanzetta v. New Jersey, 306 U.S. 451 (1939) Thrown out for being too vagure However, later cases like: Robinson v. California Powell v. Texas Threw out that laws that criminalize a status of someone, so a lot laws regarding status in lower courts where ruled unconstutional. However, yea things like sleeping have been in a legal limbo for quite some time. Since it is an action, but people need sleep to live. So seems like that case settles that question since criminalizing a necessity for life is kinda ridiculous.
anovikov 5y ago
That's the problem, not the achievement. I learned in detail how problem of homelessness was tackled in Belarus. It really worked there. For all the nasty stuff about Lukashenka (and no i am not a Commie), he got it right. Homelessness is a kind of criminal behavior and/or mental condition. People are homeless not because they are poor (nearly everyone in Belarus is poor for that matter, but there are almost no homeless), it is a delinquency, anti-social behaviour, a voluntary choice to live an anti-social lifestyle rejecting norms. It has to be deterred, and it's not hard to deter: bums hate prisons, because their lifestyle is all about absolute rejection of any norms and rules at all, absolute, limitless freedom - and prison is the opposite of that, it makes you follow very strict rules - so even as it gives a free bed and free food, bums are afraid of getting there.

by anfilt 5y ago

anfilt 5y ago

The heck what are the down votes for. The government cant force someone to buy housing first. Its one thing to criminlize littering or sleeping/tresspassing on other peoples property. Its a whole an other thing to criminalize the act of not having a permanent residence.

anovikov 5y ago
I strongly believe in exactly that: not having a permanent resident address (even if you don't actually live there, it's OK to live elsewhere if you can afford), being a felony. In Belarus, it works this way: if someone is caught in the street in a distressed state or suspected to be a homeless, he's brought into a sorting station (приемник-распределитель), where he is checked. If he can produce papers showing where he lives, get in contact with relatives and it appears obvious that it was an accident (someone partied too much and got "lost"), he's released, although his employer is notified. If not, they check if he's an alcoholic or a drug-addict, he's placed into a prison-style rehab. Escape from it is difficult and it is punishable with an actual prison. After rehab, they are given a dorm bed and a job, and a social worker tracks to make sure they stick with it. If he's mentally disturbed, a commission examines him and puts him into a prison-like mental institution, with similar consequences. If he already been in any of the above and it didn't help, they try again, but after ~3 tries, he goes to prison. It works. There are no bums in Belarus. Streets are safe. And yes, technically there is no way to legally become homeless in Belarus. You parents can't check you out when you grow up unless you buy a place of your own and can transfer your permanent registration there - there is no way to not have a permanent registration, citizen registration office just won't accept an application to "check out my 25 year old son coz it's time for him to live on his own" if he doesn't have that new place to check in to. There are some cracks in that system so a very very small fraction of people (<1%) end up without registration, but it is technically illegal (although no one will bother before they find you in the street drunk), and must be in theory impossible. And yes, registration is separate from ownership. You can sell your apartment with people still registered there and they retain that registration and a right to live there (ofc when you file papers to buy an apartment, there's a way to check if there are any people still registered, so no one in their sane mind would buy a place with anyone still registered). So here's a fix: make it legally impossible to not have a place of your own, and make it illegal not to.

michaelmrose 5y ago

More recently Martin v. Boise https://nlihc.org/resource/supreme-court-upholds-ruling-homeless-people-cannot-be-criminally-punished-sleeping https://nlihc.org/resource/supreme-court-upholds-ruling-home...

anfilt 5y ago
I was thinking of an older case, but that just even expands upon the case I was thinking about. Let me try and find it.
anfilt 5y ago
So it looks the first round of supreme court actions along this regard I was thinking of started with: Lanzetta v. New Jersey, 306 U.S. 451 (1939) Thrown out for being too vagure However, later cases like: Robinson v. California Powell v. Texas Threw out that laws that criminalize a status of someone, so a lot laws regarding status in lower courts where ruled unconstutional. However, yea things like sleeping have been in a legal limbo for quite some time. Since it is an action, but people need sleep to live. So seems like that case settles that question since criminalizing a necessity for life is kinda ridiculous.

anovikov 5y ago

That's the problem, not the achievement. I learned in detail how problem of homelessness was tackled in Belarus. It really worked there. For all the nasty stuff about Lukashenka (and no i am not a Commie), he got it right. Homelessness is a kind of criminal behavior and/or mental condition. People are homeless not because they are poor (nearly everyone in Belarus is poor for that matter, but there are almost no homeless), it is a delinquency, anti-social behaviour, a voluntary choice to live an anti-social lifestyle rejecting norms. It has to be deterred, and it's not hard to deter: bums hate prisons, because their lifestyle is all about absolute rejection of any norms and rules at all, absolute, limitless freedom - and prison is the opposite of that, it makes you follow very strict rules - so even as it gives a free bed and free food, bums are afraid of getting there.