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I’m very surprised that “proof of immunity” isn’t an acceptable alternative to a vaccine for things like travel or work. It seems it’s either vaccine or bust. A

I’m very surprised that “proof of immunity” isn’t an acceptable alternative to a vaccine for things like travel or work. It seems it’s either vaccine or bust. Anyone know why this is the case?

vmception 5y ago
It is possible that consensus will shift towards that as soon as people start forging vaccine passports en masse and for more things Proof of immunity can have the server side component for verification, which was neglected for the vaccination effort
- nradov 5y ago
  People are already forging CDC vaccination records en masse. All it takes is a printer and a ball point pen. Those aren't secure documents.
  - dboreham 5y ago
    Luckily they don't need to be (assuming you're talking about the USA) because the authorative source is a government database not some piece of paper.
seoaeu 5y ago
Testing for immunity could easily cost more than the vaccine. Also most people haven't caught it yet, so you'd need to give them the vaccine anyways.
- maxerickson 5y ago
  The antibody tests are like $5.
  - gregwebs 5y ago
    Where can I get such a test that is accurate and shows a quantitative number)? Quest charges $80.
    - maxerickson 5y ago
      I mean, the vaccine in the US is $0, so it's kind of moot, a test will cost more than the vaccine. I was sort of thinking of the cost of doing the test when I said $5, rather than the retail cost (really, that's what I was thinking about!).
  - AndrewBissell 5y ago
    The T cell immunity test is what will be relevant for anyone who was infected a significant amount of time ago, and last I saw those were about $200.
  - seoaeu 5y ago
    I was guessing higher than that, but even that price isn't wildly out of line with the prices that governments are paying for vaccines (between $2 and $40 per dose).
TameAntelope 5y ago
Everything I've been reading about vaccine passports include some reference to having a positive COVID test more than X period of time in the past as an equivalent to a vaccine. That said, there are few (if any) reasons not to do both, so at least for now I'm okay even if we did only push for vaccines-as-validation.
- Izkata 5y ago
  > That said, there are few (if any) reasons not to do both If recovery grants equivalent immunity, there's not only no reason to get a vaccine, there's reason to not get any vaccine: However rare complications are from the vaccines, there's no reason to risk them.
  - macintux 5y ago
    The complications from the virus are nearly always going to be worse than vaccination. I’m failing to grasp your logic. Edit: Ah, perhaps you mean for someone who has recovered. Given the reports that vaccination helps with those who are experiencing “long COVID”, plus the added protection, I’d eagerly get vaccinated even if I had recovered from infection.
  - TameAntelope 5y ago
    I would argue the opposite, and in fact this comment convinces me a positive test should not be relevant to determining immunity. A single positive result means so little, giving someone with your thinking that excuse not to get vaccinated just isn’t worth it. You “risk it” for others, not yourself.
maxerickson 5y ago
Are there any serious checks for vaccination? I live in a small town and people here aren't very concerned, so I'm asking seriously if activities are actually being gated on vaccination.
- javagram 5y ago
  The EU is preparing to reopen international travel using a vaccine passport. Israel reopened their society early after their final coronavirus lockdown by only allowing vaccinated to resume normal life. The cruise lines that serve the USA and Caribbean islands are attempting to reopen while requiring all passengers to be vaccinated, but the governor of Florida is attempting to force them to allow unvaccinated passengers onboard. It depends a lot on what country you are in and their attitudes towards vaccines and privacy.
sleepydog 5y ago
How do you prove immunity? I thought that antibodies didn't tell the whole story, because your immune systems memory lasts even longer than the antibodies do.
halfjoking 5y ago
I'm hoping it will be since I have longcovid and don't want the vaccine. Anyone who is willing to pay for the new T-Cell test [1] and is positive should be given the same rights as any vaccine passport provides. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-23/t-cell-screening-test-launched-to-detect-prior-covid-infections https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-23/t-cell-sc...
- sterlind 5y ago
  there's been reporting that the vaccines help some sufferers of long covid. surely you don't have much to lose by trying, right?
  - mlboss 5y ago
    Yes. Around 30% people see improvement in symptoms after getting vaccine shot. https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/vaccines-long-covid https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/vaccines-long-covid
    - halfjoking 5y ago
      And 15% get worse. Since I’m better, running 5 miles with 0 symptoms afterwards, why risk relapse?
      - zacharyvoase 5y ago
        So you don't have long covid then?
        halfjoking 5y ago
        I haven't had neuro/heart/gastro issues for months. My veins still bulge sometimes. Once every few days I get the hot-skin. Other than those symptoms I don't.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
refurb 5y ago
It is done on an informal basis in Singapore. If you've recovered from Covid, they will offer an antibody test and if positive, they may let you out of quarantine early.

vmception 5y ago

It is possible that consensus will shift towards that as soon as people start forging vaccine passports en masse and for more things Proof of immunity can have the server side component for verification, which was neglected for the vaccination effort

nradov 5y ago
People are already forging CDC vaccination records en masse. All it takes is a printer and a ball point pen. Those aren't secure documents.
- dboreham 5y ago
  Luckily they don't need to be (assuming you're talking about the USA) because the authorative source is a government database not some piece of paper.

seoaeu 5y ago

Testing for immunity could easily cost more than the vaccine. Also most people haven't caught it yet, so you'd need to give them the vaccine anyways.

maxerickson 5y ago
The antibody tests are like $5.
- gregwebs 5y ago
  Where can I get such a test that is accurate and shows a quantitative number)? Quest charges $80.
  - maxerickson 5y ago
    I mean, the vaccine in the US is $0, so it's kind of moot, a test will cost more than the vaccine. I was sort of thinking of the cost of doing the test when I said $5, rather than the retail cost (really, that's what I was thinking about!).
- AndrewBissell 5y ago
  The T cell immunity test is what will be relevant for anyone who was infected a significant amount of time ago, and last I saw those were about $200.
- seoaeu 5y ago
  I was guessing higher than that, but even that price isn't wildly out of line with the prices that governments are paying for vaccines (between $2 and $40 per dose).

TameAntelope 5y ago

Everything I've been reading about vaccine passports include some reference to having a positive COVID test more than X period of time in the past as an equivalent to a vaccine. That said, there are few (if any) reasons not to do both, so at least for now I'm okay even if we did only push for vaccines-as-validation.

Izkata 5y ago
> That said, there are few (if any) reasons not to do both If recovery grants equivalent immunity, there's not only no reason to get a vaccine, there's reason to not get any vaccine: However rare complications are from the vaccines, there's no reason to risk them.
- macintux 5y ago
  The complications from the virus are nearly always going to be worse than vaccination. I’m failing to grasp your logic. Edit: Ah, perhaps you mean for someone who has recovered. Given the reports that vaccination helps with those who are experiencing “long COVID”, plus the added protection, I’d eagerly get vaccinated even if I had recovered from infection.
- TameAntelope 5y ago
  I would argue the opposite, and in fact this comment convinces me a positive test should not be relevant to determining immunity. A single positive result means so little, giving someone with your thinking that excuse not to get vaccinated just isn’t worth it. You “risk it” for others, not yourself.

maxerickson 5y ago

Are there any serious checks for vaccination? I live in a small town and people here aren't very concerned, so I'm asking seriously if activities are actually being gated on vaccination.

javagram 5y ago
The EU is preparing to reopen international travel using a vaccine passport. Israel reopened their society early after their final coronavirus lockdown by only allowing vaccinated to resume normal life. The cruise lines that serve the USA and Caribbean islands are attempting to reopen while requiring all passengers to be vaccinated, but the governor of Florida is attempting to force them to allow unvaccinated passengers onboard. It depends a lot on what country you are in and their attitudes towards vaccines and privacy.

sleepydog 5y ago

How do you prove immunity? I thought that antibodies didn't tell the whole story, because your immune systems memory lasts even longer than the antibodies do.

halfjoking 5y ago

I'm hoping it will be since I have longcovid and don't want the vaccine. Anyone who is willing to pay for the new T-Cell test [1] and is positive should be given the same rights as any vaccine passport provides. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-23/t-cell-screening-test-launched-to-detect-prior-covid-infections https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-23/t-cell-sc...

sterlind 5y ago
there's been reporting that the vaccines help some sufferers of long covid. surely you don't have much to lose by trying, right?
- mlboss 5y ago
  Yes. Around 30% people see improvement in symptoms after getting vaccine shot. https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/vaccines-long-covid https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/vaccines-long-covid
  - halfjoking 5y ago
    And 15% get worse. Since I’m better, running 5 miles with 0 symptoms afterwards, why risk relapse?
    - zacharyvoase 5y ago
      So you don't have long covid then?
      - halfjoking 5y ago
        I haven't had neuro/heart/gastro issues for months. My veins still bulge sometimes. Once every few days I get the hot-skin. Other than those symptoms I don't.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

refurb 5y ago

It is done on an informal basis in Singapore. If you've recovered from Covid, they will offer an antibody test and if positive, they may let you out of quarantine early.