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Regarding "my friend left the envelope on a table in his house" not producing the "AirTag found moving with you" alert, this is obviously by design. You get the

Regarding "my friend left the envelope on a table in his house" not producing the "AirTag found moving with you" alert, this is obviously by design. You get the alert if the tag is planted on your person/vehicle and following you around, not if it happens to be sitting still in a location that you frequent. The alternative is being constantly bombarded with alerts because other residents of an apartment building also own AirTags, which is not going to be useful to anyone.

xeromal 5y ago
Yeah, I'm wondering if the 3 days rule is for being around a certain iphone for 3 days. Otherwise, every person coming in contact with an old airtag would be notified as soon as they come in contact with it.
- bellyfullofbac 5y ago
  AFAIK if the owner iPhone checks in with the tag, then everything's fine again. So if you're a jealous husband who wants to track your wife's whereabouts as she goes through the day before returning to your home every night, well Apple has the product for you! Or if you're stalking Cindy, just walk by her place every few days... until she spends the night at Peter's, but hey, your iPhone will tell you that, and where to find them.
  - sedgjh23 5y ago
    If you’re stalking someone there are effective alternatives with much lower exposure risk.
    - djhn 5y ago
      I'm hesitant to ask because of the implication, but also slightly afraid of not know about these threat vectors. So what methods are you talking about?
      - ghaff 5y ago
        As others have said, there are widely available GPS trackers with cellular connections. There are, of course, also all the ways people did such things pre-GPS. i.e. just finding out where a person lives which is mostly pretty easy.
        goldenkey 5y ago
        The GPS locators are heavier with shorter battery life. This has been my experience from GPS pet trackers. Since Bluetooth Low Energy does not require as much energy or range, the form factor is greatly decreased.
        wklauss 5y ago
        yes but if you just want to find where someone leves or goes, you don't need a device following them for a year. Ar day or two is enough, and GPS trackers give you that and a much greater accuracy.
        maven29 5y ago
        You might realize this, but just for clarity, Bluetooth LE has similar range to Classic Bluetooth, with the exception of 125kbps LE long range coded PHY, introduced with BT5.0. You can potentially reach from 1km away outdoors. The Nordic Semiconductor NRF52832 used in the airtag, unlike NRF52840, does not support this. https://colinoflynn.com/2021/05/apple-airtag-teardown-test-point-mapping/ https://colinoflynn.com/2021/05/apple-airtag-teardown-test-p... https://www.nordicsemi.com/Products/Low-power-short-range-wireless/Bluetooth-5 https://www.nordicsemi.com/Products/Low-power-short-range-wi... Apple seems to have removed support for long range coded PHY from iOS as well, so other vendors can't make use of coded PHY either. It was present in iOS 13, seems to be absent from iOS 14. https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/665542 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/665542
aleph_naught 5y ago
It is more than just following around, you need to be followed home or to a known location in order to be alerted: https://youtu.be/vjLbxywixro https://youtu.be/vjLbxywixro (Unrelated, but kind of sad that I got more information on how airtags actually work from a bike components review channel than dedicated tech reviewers)
- esolyt 5y ago
  Tech reviewers are too busy praising Apple and calling everything they make magical. There are very few real tech review sites that test devices based on objective criteria. They don't get as much traffic compared to websites like The Verge. The Verge still has quality content as long as you keep in mind almost all of their reviewers live in the US, they are all in the Apple ecosystem, and they wouldn't be able to talk their family and friends if they switched to Android anyway. They have no reason to be enthusiastic about anything that's not an iPhone or an iPhone accessory.
  - WrtCdEvrydy 5y ago
    > There are very few real tech review sites that test devices based on objective criteria. They don't get as much traffic compared to websites like The Verge. The industry has a very carrot-stick mentality. Gamers Nexus for example gets shit on by everyone especially when they call this shit out while the "real gaming" channels just go along with anything to get review copies.
    - goldenkey 5y ago
      The riser short-circuit fire hazard fiasco made me respect them quite heavily.
  - akmarinov 5y ago
    Well that’s about 50% of the US market that you’re describing and honestly the US market is the number 1 priority for companies, followed by China. Other countries are faaaar behind in third+ place.
- 5y ago
andrewmunsell 5y ago
Yeah, I just left my dog (her leash has an AirTag on it) with my parents on 5/8, and presumably the leash was sitting in their home somewhere. They took her to the dog park on 5/9, and got the notification that an AirTag was following them. So I was gone for a little over 24 hours, but they only got the notification after they took the leash with them for a couple hours and then went home. https://imgur.com/a/RawzEP9 https://imgur.com/a/RawzEP9 I believe the 3 days is for the audible beeping when it's moved, but they haven't seen that yet and they marked it as "pause safety alerts" so I'm not sure if it'll still beep. Edit: Also, I have a bag at home with an AirTag and it's constantly updating location, so presumably one of my neighbors has an iPhone that's nearby. Kind of cool that it updates so frequently, and I'd say it was worth replacing my Tiles because of it.
- stu2b50 5y ago
  Curious, do you find an Airtag on your dog's leash to be effective?
  - andrewmunsell 5y ago
    It's just to see what they're doing with her, not really to track the dog if she runs away (she's a pug, she doesn't move far or fast). My parents are on my Find My Friends so it's not like I can't see where they are, but it's just peace of mind to know if the dog is with them. I used to have a Tile and the AirTag is so much better with updating location just because the sheer number of iPhones.
    - mod 5y ago
      Interestingly, this is exactly the type of behavior I would find distasteful. If I do you the favor of watching your dog, I'm going to be pissed if you're spying on me during the process. I'm sure they knew about it, so I don't think it's unethical, just sort of ugly.
      - andrewmunsell 5y ago
        That's a perfectly fine opinion, but not one my family subscribes to. We're all on each others' Find My Friends, and have no problem knowing who is where. I even have non-blood-related friends on there, as do some of my other family members. It's more useful to know when someone is X minutes away when you're being picked up or whatever, so it's certainly not "ugly" to anyone that watches my dog either.
floatingatoll 5y ago
The notification was described by Apple as being tied to you, person having an AirTag you don’t know, having a Home location on your iPhone’s “myself” contacts card, which presumably then also requires you to have certain System Services permissions to have been left enabled to allow recognition of location by the iPhone in question. Phrasing clumsy, but essentially: If your iPhone doesn’t have a Home icon in Maps for your home, you might not get AirTags tracking protection. Someone should test, or ask Apple to clarify.
- neop1x 5y ago
  That assumes the person being tracked owns a supported iPhone device. So that probably means someone with an android, having AirTag planted on them, can be tracked freely by nearby iPhones...
  - floatingatoll 5y ago
    Yes, but that’s irrelevant in the context we’re discussing here, where the the reviewer was testing his friend’s iPhone.
coldtea 5y ago
>this is obviously by design. You get the alert if the tag is planted on your person/vehicle and following you around, not if it happens to be sitting still in a location that you frequent. So, if some guy hides it in your bag at the airport, with the intention of finding where you live, and you get to your home within the same day, you wont be notified about it for many days, or possibly months, if you leave your bag stationary at home. Doesn't sound like a very good design. >because other residents of an apartment building also own AirTags How about just showing you a single alert (or stationary info page you could check optionally) "Airtag that's not yours travels with you, still here"? You could then ignore it at public transport (where you expect others with airtags to be travelling along), but you could start getting suspicious if you still get that a "foreign airtag that travelled with you is still nearby" when you're at your home.
- gruez 5y ago
  >Doesn't sound like a very good design. because there has to be a trade-off between usability and privacy. Something following you for a few hours (max trip for airport to home) could be a stalker, or could just be an airtag on your uber driver. Excessive alerts is counterproductive because people eventually tune them out, which makes them useless. >How about just showing you a single alert (or stationary info page you could check optionally) "Airtag that's not yours travels with you, still here"? You'll get that every time you're on a subway/bus.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - coldtea 5y ago
    >Excessive alerts is counterproductive because people eventually tune them out, which makes them useless. You don't need excessive alerts, you just a place in the UI that the user can check and see if there's an alert or not. To make it even fancier, add a red dot to the "Find My" icon. I don't understand why "excessive alerts" and the image of a constantly ringing iPhone is presented as the only possible way to notify the user... >You'll get that every time you're on a subway/bus. Yeah, so? As stated above, it could just be an entry "foreign airtag travelling with you" in some UI screen that you open and broswe -- tagged with the date and duration it happened. You can then blisfully ignore it (especially since it can also show "it's not here with you anymore" when you go to your destination).
manmal 5y ago
The alert will just trigger if the tag is away from your own devices. If the tag is in another location than you, then it should indeed trigger the alert and make a sound after three days, no matter what.

xeromal 5y ago

Yeah, I'm wondering if the 3 days rule is for being around a certain iphone for 3 days. Otherwise, every person coming in contact with an old airtag would be notified as soon as they come in contact with it.

bellyfullofbac 5y ago
AFAIK if the owner iPhone checks in with the tag, then everything's fine again. So if you're a jealous husband who wants to track your wife's whereabouts as she goes through the day before returning to your home every night, well Apple has the product for you! Or if you're stalking Cindy, just walk by her place every few days... until she spends the night at Peter's, but hey, your iPhone will tell you that, and where to find them.
- sedgjh23 5y ago
  If you’re stalking someone there are effective alternatives with much lower exposure risk.
  - djhn 5y ago
    I'm hesitant to ask because of the implication, but also slightly afraid of not know about these threat vectors. So what methods are you talking about?
    - ghaff 5y ago
      As others have said, there are widely available GPS trackers with cellular connections. There are, of course, also all the ways people did such things pre-GPS. i.e. just finding out where a person lives which is mostly pretty easy.
      - goldenkey 5y ago
        The GPS locators are heavier with shorter battery life. This has been my experience from GPS pet trackers. Since Bluetooth Low Energy does not require as much energy or range, the form factor is greatly decreased.
        wklauss 5y ago
        yes but if you just want to find where someone leves or goes, you don't need a device following them for a year. Ar day or two is enough, and GPS trackers give you that and a much greater accuracy.
        maven29 5y ago
        You might realize this, but just for clarity, Bluetooth LE has similar range to Classic Bluetooth, with the exception of 125kbps LE long range coded PHY, introduced with BT5.0. You can potentially reach from 1km away outdoors. The Nordic Semiconductor NRF52832 used in the airtag, unlike NRF52840, does not support this. https://colinoflynn.com/2021/05/apple-airtag-teardown-test-point-mapping/ https://colinoflynn.com/2021/05/apple-airtag-teardown-test-p... https://www.nordicsemi.com/Products/Low-power-short-range-wireless/Bluetooth-5 https://www.nordicsemi.com/Products/Low-power-short-range-wi... Apple seems to have removed support for long range coded PHY from iOS as well, so other vendors can't make use of coded PHY either. It was present in iOS 13, seems to be absent from iOS 14. https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/665542 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/665542

aleph_naught 5y ago

It is more than just following around, you need to be followed home or to a known location in order to be alerted: https://youtu.be/vjLbxywixro https://youtu.be/vjLbxywixro (Unrelated, but kind of sad that I got more information on how airtags actually work from a bike components review channel than dedicated tech reviewers)

esolyt 5y ago
Tech reviewers are too busy praising Apple and calling everything they make magical. There are very few real tech review sites that test devices based on objective criteria. They don't get as much traffic compared to websites like The Verge. The Verge still has quality content as long as you keep in mind almost all of their reviewers live in the US, they are all in the Apple ecosystem, and they wouldn't be able to talk their family and friends if they switched to Android anyway. They have no reason to be enthusiastic about anything that's not an iPhone or an iPhone accessory.
- WrtCdEvrydy 5y ago
  > There are very few real tech review sites that test devices based on objective criteria. They don't get as much traffic compared to websites like The Verge. The industry has a very carrot-stick mentality. Gamers Nexus for example gets shit on by everyone especially when they call this shit out while the "real gaming" channels just go along with anything to get review copies.
  - goldenkey 5y ago
    The riser short-circuit fire hazard fiasco made me respect them quite heavily.
- akmarinov 5y ago
  Well that’s about 50% of the US market that you’re describing and honestly the US market is the number 1 priority for companies, followed by China. Other countries are faaaar behind in third+ place.
5y ago

andrewmunsell 5y ago

Yeah, I just left my dog (her leash has an AirTag on it) with my parents on 5/8, and presumably the leash was sitting in their home somewhere. They took her to the dog park on 5/9, and got the notification that an AirTag was following them. So I was gone for a little over 24 hours, but they only got the notification after they took the leash with them for a couple hours and then went home. https://imgur.com/a/RawzEP9 https://imgur.com/a/RawzEP9 I believe the 3 days is for the audible beeping when it's moved, but they haven't seen that yet and they marked it as "pause safety alerts" so I'm not sure if it'll still beep. Edit: Also, I have a bag at home with an AirTag and it's constantly updating location, so presumably one of my neighbors has an iPhone that's nearby. Kind of cool that it updates so frequently, and I'd say it was worth replacing my Tiles because of it.

stu2b50 5y ago
Curious, do you find an Airtag on your dog's leash to be effective?
- andrewmunsell 5y ago
  It's just to see what they're doing with her, not really to track the dog if she runs away (she's a pug, she doesn't move far or fast). My parents are on my Find My Friends so it's not like I can't see where they are, but it's just peace of mind to know if the dog is with them. I used to have a Tile and the AirTag is so much better with updating location just because the sheer number of iPhones.
  - mod 5y ago
    Interestingly, this is exactly the type of behavior I would find distasteful. If I do you the favor of watching your dog, I'm going to be pissed if you're spying on me during the process. I'm sure they knew about it, so I don't think it's unethical, just sort of ugly.
    - andrewmunsell 5y ago
      That's a perfectly fine opinion, but not one my family subscribes to. We're all on each others' Find My Friends, and have no problem knowing who is where. I even have non-blood-related friends on there, as do some of my other family members. It's more useful to know when someone is X minutes away when you're being picked up or whatever, so it's certainly not "ugly" to anyone that watches my dog either.

floatingatoll 5y ago

The notification was described by Apple as being tied to you, person having an AirTag you don’t know, having a Home location on your iPhone’s “myself” contacts card, which presumably then also requires you to have certain System Services permissions to have been left enabled to allow recognition of location by the iPhone in question. Phrasing clumsy, but essentially: If your iPhone doesn’t have a Home icon in Maps for your home, you might not get AirTags tracking protection. Someone should test, or ask Apple to clarify.

neop1x 5y ago
That assumes the person being tracked owns a supported iPhone device. So that probably means someone with an android, having AirTag planted on them, can be tracked freely by nearby iPhones...
- floatingatoll 5y ago
  Yes, but that’s irrelevant in the context we’re discussing here, where the the reviewer was testing his friend’s iPhone.

coldtea 5y ago

>this is obviously by design. You get the alert if the tag is planted on your person/vehicle and following you around, not if it happens to be sitting still in a location that you frequent. So, if some guy hides it in your bag at the airport, with the intention of finding where you live, and you get to your home within the same day, you wont be notified about it for many days, or possibly months, if you leave your bag stationary at home. Doesn't sound like a very good design. >because other residents of an apartment building also own AirTags How about just showing you a single alert (or stationary info page you could check optionally) "Airtag that's not yours travels with you, still here"? You could then ignore it at public transport (where you expect others with airtags to be travelling along), but you could start getting suspicious if you still get that a "foreign airtag that travelled with you is still nearby" when you're at your home.

gruez 5y ago
>Doesn't sound like a very good design. because there has to be a trade-off between usability and privacy. Something following you for a few hours (max trip for airport to home) could be a stalker, or could just be an airtag on your uber driver. Excessive alerts is counterproductive because people eventually tune them out, which makes them useless. >How about just showing you a single alert (or stationary info page you could check optionally) "Airtag that's not yours travels with you, still here"? You'll get that every time you're on a subway/bus.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- coldtea 5y ago
  >Excessive alerts is counterproductive because people eventually tune them out, which makes them useless. You don't need excessive alerts, you just a place in the UI that the user can check and see if there's an alert or not. To make it even fancier, add a red dot to the "Find My" icon. I don't understand why "excessive alerts" and the image of a constantly ringing iPhone is presented as the only possible way to notify the user... >You'll get that every time you're on a subway/bus. Yeah, so? As stated above, it could just be an entry "foreign airtag travelling with you" in some UI screen that you open and broswe -- tagged with the date and duration it happened. You can then blisfully ignore it (especially since it can also show "it's not here with you anymore" when you go to your destination).

manmal 5y ago

The alert will just trigger if the tag is away from your own devices. If the tag is in another location than you, then it should indeed trigger the alert and make a sound after three days, no matter what.