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The great resignation is coming?
- twodave 5y agoCan't get the site to load :( Edit: loading now--Okay, I'm not sure I buy much of this article. Most people need some kind of job to survive. So while there might be more turnover than usual in the marketplace, I don't foresee a bunch of people independently deciding to become homeless over "culture" at work.
- jandrese 5y agoThe server quit when it was asked to start wearing pants again.
- duxup 5y agoTook several tries for me, finally got it... well the text.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- lostinroutine 5y agoMy interpretation was that they were already looking to quit but didn't do so because of uncertainty of the pandemic. Supposedly, when the uncertainty resolves people in the resignation backlog will actually quit.
- twodave 5y agoMy point is it doesn't matter--on a large scale, movement _between_ jobs is a zero-sum game. Businesses might see a spike in hiring costs, but by your logic they'll just be making up for lost time so it's even more-so a non-story if that's the case.
- duxup 5y agoHow many people can actually afford to ... do that? This is not the first time I've seen this prediction.
- dimitrisnl 5y agoDevs with cushy jobs cashing month after month, for sure. Others, no way.
- bicx 5y agoThis. And devs with no family or medical expenses. A warning to anyone thinking they'll be fine taking a sabbatical without health insurance: you're playing with fire. Don't try it in the U.S.
- reasonabl_human 5y agoCOBRA is what I’ve seen people use when away from work, sometimes benefits continue for a few months.
- DennisP 5y agoIf you don't have the resources to buy health insurance, you probably don't have enough cushion for a decent sabbatical anyway.
- Consultant32452 5y agoIf you're young and healthy you can get a high deductible policy that will protect you in the event of a disaster for very cheap, in the $150/mo range. These are not the Obamacare covers all your pre-existing conditions without a healthcare screening plans.
- kgin 5y agoWhy no health insurance? Go on the ACA exchange and pick a plan. It's an expense like any other.
- j4yav 5y agoProbably a lot of well paid developers who have had nothing to spend their money on for a year and a half
- Kinrany 5y agoArchive: https://web.archive.org/web/20210511150212/https://dailymirror.co.za/2021/05/11/the-great-resignation-is-coming/ https://web.archive.org/web/20210511150212/https://dailymirr...
- soheil 5y agoYou can also just prepend arxiv.link to the url: https://arxiv.link/https://dailymirror.co.za/2021/05/11/the-great-resignation-is-coming/ https://arxiv.link/https://dailymirror.co.za/2021/05/11/the-...
- r721 5y agoIt looks like the original source is Bloomberg: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-10/quit-your-job-how-to-resign-after-covid-pandemic https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-10/quit-your...
- Afforess 5y agoLiterally just one person's opinion. No data. No analysis. And the actual claim is weaker than the title suggests. I'm not sure why this is here. HN commentators regularly have better takes, even.
- dimitrisnl 5y agoI've thought about this too tbh. Personally, having lived on extended lockdown for some months now, I've entertained the idea of taking a sabbatical. There's no joy for me anymore.
- reaperducer 5y agoLiterally just one person's opinion There's more to it than that. From the article: "an associate professor of management at Texas A&M University..." No data. No analysis. "...who’s studied the exits of hundreds of workers."
- Afforess 5y agoYou seem to have confused a claim with data. Please check the article again and let me know where the data is.
- HelloNurse 5y agoIt's an interesting subject, irrespective of strong or weak claims. There's no doubt of a collision between workplaces attempting to put people back in their cubicles regardless of their wishes, workplaces attempting to make remote work permanent and sustainable, and workforce lifestyle changes becoming easier (at least for psychological reasons, even in the absence of concrete factors). I don't assume that companies that prefer remote work are "better": it can be a cynical cost-cutting measure that causes more misery (due to communication problems, loneliness, externalization of costs like computers and broadband access, discrimination, off-hours demands etc.) than going to the office like in the old days.
- williesleg 5y agoBunch of babies.
- fairity 5y agoIf this is true, we should already have data to support it (since many businesses have already fully transitioned back to the office). I haven’t seen any such data. IMO, whether remote work is here to stay depends on two questions: 1) Where are employees more productive 2) How much of a pay cut are employees willing to take to work from home? The answer to the first question is pretty clear to me. We will be more productive in the office, on average. Primarily bc it’s human nature to exert the least effort possible to obtain resources, and so over time, employees will find more ways to slack from home while looking productive. Though there are exceptions, companies will base their decisions on the average productivity of each potential policy.
- ed25519FUUU 5y agoI don’t think productivity comes from slacking, I think it comes from a communication tax. When you’re in the office you can just ask someone, at home you have to ask and wait and explain.
- MattGaiser 5y agoWhat about the communication tax of people asking instead of Googling to solve their issue?
- ageofwant 5y agoWhat about the gains from those not having to pay the tax ? Being interrupted and having to do context switches has a significant cost associated.
- dylan604 5y agoBut this is also the cause of a lack of production. I have routinely been interrupted from what I was doing because someone just casually drops by to discuss whatever they felt like (might be work related, might not). As a developer, it takes time to get back to where you left off.[0] While working from home, those interruptions are dropped to 0. Any questions must come from some form of slack/email/etc that can all be ignored until I'm ready to look at them. [0]https://heeris.id.au/2013/this-is-why-you-shouldnt-interrupt-a-programmer/ https://heeris.id.au/2013/this-is-why-you-shouldnt-interrupt...
- WORMS_EAT_WORMS 5y agoI am REALLY curious about home prices during this coming period. Are we due for a correction down or was the 15-20% overnight housing cost jump a correction of house prices being too low (yes, absurd but I’m serious). A perfect storm of Millennials finally buying homes with low interest rates (?). COVID just jump started it. Who knows. Either way: - Huge amount of people fleeing to suburbs regretting their new commute times is likely. - Huge amount of people who can’t carry their new housing bill and find remote work like planned. Seems inevitable. Either way, I think housing cost will be one of the best indicators if remote is here to stay or not.
- breadzeppelin__ 5y agoI'm "attending" the "strategic investment conference" currently and there was a presentation on housing a few days ago that implied that housing prices will continue to rise due to demographic factors and "housing stock shortages" for at least a couple more years
- shados 5y agoWhile there's a lot of factors involved, the impact of lowering interest rate is usually underestimated. I didn't pay an absurd amount of money for my house because the market was super hot and I had to outbid everyone in a bidding war (though I did have to do that). I paid an absurd amount because with interest rates so low, it was cheaper than renting in term of monthly payment + maintenance. I'd obviously be willing to go as high as my current rent, and probably a bit higher (to be allowed to do whatever I want with it), and that just came up to the price I paid. The only thing blocking you, financially, is the down payment. The lower the interest rate, the higher the down payment will be for the same monthly payment. That's the problem. To live in the house, if you can afford 1500/month (including insurance, HoA, maintenance), it doesn't matter if the house is worth 100k, 300k, 600k, 1 million...if the math adds up to 1500/month, you'll buy it. Interest rates go down, house value go up. Simple as that. Now if you add all the other factors, like how home ownership becomes a potentially profitable investment, alongside society's pressure that "it's what you're supposed to do", and of course prices will skyrocket, shortage or not. In turn, it raises rent prices, which makes the math above work out even more, and it's a self reinforcing cycle.
- magneticnorth 5y agoAnecdotally, I'm already seeing this at my tech company. A few coworkers have quit without a next job lined up in order to take a sabbatical. This past year, if you've been working at a US tech company it's been easy to save enough money to just quit for a little while, and the fact that people haven't been able to buy things like childcare or vacations means they may really feel the need to.
- booleandilemma 5y agoWhat do they do about health insurance?
- miked85 5y agoI would guess the usual options like ACA or COBRA.
- yladiz 5y agoEither COBRA, pay for anything you go to the doctor for out of pocket, or just don’t get sick.
- RandallBrown 5y agoI quit my job a few years ago to go hiking for 4 months and I got free health insurance from my state since I had zero income.
- JamesSwift 5y agoCOBRA is actually retroactive so you don't actually need to purchase it until you _need_ it. So a lot probably just bank on not needing it.
- hourislate 5y agoJust buy catastrophic. It's cheap and covers you for the big things (auto accident, heart attack, etc). Lots of doctors that only charge $30 for a regular visit (no insurance).
- shiohime 5y ago
- aqme28 5y agoWell this tracks for myself and a few software engineers I know.
- Rumudiez 5y agoSame. All these other doubtful comments and I’m sitting here like yep – I already quit my job a month ago! Still not seeking work either. I can vouch for a friend who quit an eng job at Amazon just recently as well. The housing market was still too competitive to buy, though. Houses 100 miles out from Seattle were selling for six figures over asking price back in March! Couldn’t get an offer accepted anywhere because there was always another buyer who had full cash.
- GCA10 5y agoThere's a big difference between being restless -- i.e. going for a bunch of job interviews -- and actually switching jobs. Articles like this highlight the very plausible idea that the post-Covid reawakening will include a lot of "Wanna hire me?" conversations. Perhaps even over meals with someone's expense account picking up the tab. But as other posters say, a lot of that may be momentary flirtation. Plenty of exploring; not so much movement.
- ketanmaheshwari 5y agoThis seems more like a how-to guide to leave your job (as if it is a new fashion trend) and reads more of a persuasion to leave your job post-pandemic.
- ThaDood 5y agoI guess it depends on the industry and if you/the industry you work in has been effected by COVID. Working as a bartender or cook at a restaurant? Doubt we will see a mass resignation. Unless people decide they are tired of shit treatment. Working in IT or some similar position at a modern company? I bet we would see a larger number of people quitting. Why go back into the office? Why commute? Why do anything like that when COVID has shown that remote work is a viable option. Any company that cannot accept the new fact that workers want to be able to work remotely is going to struggle to find talent.
- MattGaiser 5y ago> that workers want to be able to work remotely is going to struggle to find talent. I suspect that there will be a large split here. My company reopened offices for any volunteers who were interested. You couldn’t have meetings in person. You couldn’t have lunch with people. But plenty of people still went in anyway.
- jb775 5y agoIntroverts vs extroverts
- ghaff 5y agoYes, this will probably play out in a number of different ways. You'll have people who don't want to be forced back into an office at least part-time at one group of companies. And you'll have other people who don't want to go back to a company that basically doesn't have much of an office culture any longer and necessitates most meetings still happening over video.
- MattGaiser 5y agoI think companies will need to decide and split. Hybrid is going to be hard on those who really like that in person interaction.
- ghaff 5y ago
- csmattryder 5y agoI'm one of those, last day at the end of this month. I'm looking forward to shaking off the old routine that I felt I had for the last few years. I got too complacent IMO, far too comfortable doing the same-old-same-old.
- slashdot2008 5y agoI haven't resigned, but I feel the same way!
- quercusa 5y agoAt one LargeCo, you had to return to work for a certain period (six weeks?) after a sabbatical to retain incentives like stock options. It was common to hear people return from sabbatical ready to resign, but by the end of the six weeks they were pulled back into projects and went back to bitching about the place like everyone else.
- aresant 5y agoI wonder if we'll see something similar in the housing market Right now perfect storm in HCOL areas eg - Cheap money from banks - not uncommon to see $2m+ loans to tech salaries - Low inventory - people aren't moving, especially older people, with pandemic uncertainty - Record increase in savings + equities values increasing - Huge increased cost in rennovation materials / building materials limiting new supply What's impetus for that to normalize?
- allo37 5y agoAs someone who's been looking to change jobs recently, this definitely tracks. I feel like for me at least, I used to really enjoy the environment of my job much more than the job itself. However, since we're all locked down, the job itself is basically the only thing I have now so I'm looking for something a bit more interesting. I wonder if that's the case for a lot of other "exiters".
- AnimalMuppet 5y agoThe biggest part of the environment is the people. And the interactions with people aren't the same when you're remote.
- throwaway75787 5y agoI left a good salary at a tech startup late last year. The pressure to perform at home, from a boss screaming over Zoom, made me realize that I've had enough of that rodeo. I keep my living expenses minimal. I eat dinner with my neighbors now and I'm actively involved in the raising of their child. Burning through savings in a big city, so I might get a part-time job, but for the moment, I am enjoying waking up well-rested.
- fullshark 5y agoA temporary doubling of people quitting their jobs would be noticeable but not very meaningful in the long run. It's pretty clear companies want workers in office and will pay a premium to make it happen.
- 0xbadcafebee 5y agoI talked to management at work about this, because our best and most motivated engineers have quit in recent months. Management is fully aware and expecting lots of turnover and have already budgeted for it. So this isn't just "coming", it's already here, and business leaders are well aware.
- goblinux 5y agoGig 'em Aggies!
- monktastic1 5y ago> For example, if the job doesn’t provide meaning, that doesn’t need to be said. Give specific reasons, like graduate school or the commute. I have to disagree. True, "doesn't provide meaning" isn't actionable to the company, but it's no less so than graduate school. And if it forces your manager to think about meaning in their own life, all the better. I'm really not a fan of this "keep everything strictly professional" idea. I think it's dying out slowly, and good thing: putting humanity back in work is exactly what we need, both for ourselves and ultimately the planet.
- splithalf 5y agoIt’s as though a year of high pitched media alarms going off about the impending wave of death and devastation, 24-7 news flooding the zone created with the intention to incite fear, gloom and doom in the American people, astonishingly enough with the paternalistic conviction it’s for “our” own good — it’s as though all that might somehow desensitize people. I call it a reorientation to risk. We went paste the fear saturation point. Consequences will never be the same.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- cbHXBY1D 5y agoFor those thinking of doing this: what's your plan? Travel? Apply to jobs immediately?
- Arrath 5y agoSo, this is something I've done for most of my working career. Though I work in heavy construction (first as union labor, now an engineer) rather than IT or the like. Construction jobs will naturally come to an end, and I take that opportunity to take some time off and travel in between gigs. I've also done it on jobs that lasted multiple years but had shut down periods (like a project in Alaska that couldn't proceed during the winter). While my work/life balance may not be entirely healthy during the work periods...okay, it really isn't at all, I can get all the R&R I want between stretches of work. I'll admit and fully own up to having a good amount of privilege that allows me to do this. I've got experience in a niche side of the construction industry, clearances, checks and licenses to go with it, and the project/contract oriented nature of heavy construction in general means that gaps in the resume are usually glossed over. On top of that, I have ins with the good-old-boys club to the point that, generally, I'm not actually looking for work, I get called up. I do think I know my side of the business, am good at it, and put in hard work, and that is why I continue to get calls. Case in point, my current gig. I was fresh off the plane from 4 weeks in New Zealand, just starting to unpack, when I got called up. I wasn't planning on looking for work for a while longer, but when called I didn't want to endanger that networking relationship by passing on it. In short, my plan would be to travel for a decent period of time, and begin to put out feelers for work as that winds down. I've never been to Greece1, and summer is coming...in fact I was just talking to my dad and he saw round trip tickets to Istanbul for ridiculously low prices. 1Pandemic allowing, of course. Life is too short to spend it all whiling away at work. You must find time for yourself, for your family, for your mental health. Slow down, smell the roses, all that. There is just too much world to explore, in my opinion. It seems to me that the pandemic and lockdowns have caused more people to come to that realization. I'm actually seeing a lot of turnover in the engineering and management staff at my current project, which I think might be related.
- joecot 5y ago> Should I quit before or after returning to the office? > Consider going back for at least a week or two. Think of it as a test of your hypothesis. Humans tend to be really bad at predicting how they’ll actually feel. This is really bad advice for a lot of people. Especially tech people. 1. Currently you're working from home, and almost all the other companies you'd consider working at are also home. This means you don't need to take unexplained time off work to go into the city for an interview -- you're at home, your interviews are remote, and most companies have been willing to work with people to interview outside business hours, since everyone's home anyway. This is the time to look, not only because you have time and aren't commuting and coming home exhausted, but because companies are being more flexible with remote. Instead of fighting with your current company for a flexible remote policy, while you're stuck back in the office, you can work out a full or hybrid remote arrangement with a new company, as part of the terms of starting there. 2. At least for tech employees, this is a sellers' market, and you're the seller. Tech unemployment is around 1.2%. No matter what you're currently making, someone is going to be willing to pay you more to do it there. I've watched medium sized tech companies streamline their byzantine interview processes because they couldn't interview people faster than they were hired elsewhere. If you have good tech chops, it has never been easier to find a job quickly, and never easier to set your own terms and salary. The big tech companies are still being stodgy, and the small silicon valley tech startups still want to pretend they're big tech companies, but if you get your resume in front of a recruiter, they have small and medium sized businesses lining up to hire literally anyone they can. So if you're in tech, which is probably why you read Hacker News, this is not good advice. If your company isn't giving you real plans for coming back that you're comfortable with, throw your resume out there and watch companies fight to have you. They will work with you on those plans, and you're in a better position than you think you are for those discussions. Everyone's laughing at fast food places putting up signs saying "No one wants to work anymore" because people realized they didn't have to. We're a few months from some tech companies being in the same spot.
- cbHXBY1D 5y ago> If you have good tech chops, it has never been easier to find a job quickly, and never easier to set your own terms and salary. What are you basing this on?