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IMO. There should be a market for: - Dumb panels (not monitors). Perhaps stripped down recycled smart tvs. - Smart tvs but with user replaceable firmware. Thi

IMO. There should be a market for: - Dumb panels (not monitors). Perhaps stripped down recycled smart tvs. - Smart tvs but with user replaceable firmware. Think OpenWRT for TVs. Maybe the same guy who does the dumb panels could sell those but with a raspberry pi in place of the logic board. Of course a monitor solves these issues but these are normally smaller and more expensive.

ff317 5y ago
I've been buying "Sceptre" -brand LCD TVs for use around the house the past several years. They're "dumb" with just a basic remote and basic settings firmware like TVs from a decade or two ago, and they tend to be reasonably priced, and of reasonable quality. Plug a streaming stick or your RPi in the back for your choice of $Streaming_TV service. They now also make units with Android TV built in, but so far they're still making non-smart models as well!
jmrm 5y ago
I don't know about OLED and other fancy panels (like Micro LED, QLED, etc.), but for common LCD panels there are plenty of controller available to use them, even with 4K resolution [1]. And panels aren't difficult to find because they are used to repair other television. The problem here is to protect it about dust and dirt, also not having a convenient and easy to use user interface. IMO the best middle point is buying a LG Smart TV. They have Amazon Prime, Amazon Alexa, Netflix, and other platform installed, but IIRC you can uninstall this apps and you can't use them until you accept the terms and conditions. If you don't accept them you shouldn't worry about them. I haven't used Wireshark to know if that apps use the network even without using them, but at least isn't the same to some Samsung TV that insert ads in the menus when your TV is connected to the Internet. [1]: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33001887592.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33001887592.html
danpalmer 5y ago
"Dumb TVs" would cost more. It's hard to market something that costs more and has what most people would perceive to be fewer features. They would cost more because post-sale content sales and advertising generate revenue for TV manufacturers, which they use to subsidise the device sale price, because it's such a competitive, low-margin, market.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  I think you might be underestimating the cost of developing or licensing smart TV software.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- fctorial 5y ago
  It isn't hard to market something that costs more and lacks a flaw.
  - danpalmer 5y ago
    This is why I saw "what most people consider". It's easy to market this to HN but most people don't know or care about this sort of control over their devices.
- ulzeraj 5y ago
  > It's hard to market something that costs more and has what most people would perceive to be fewer features. I'd pay for privacy and control. The other option like I've said is to recycle and mod smart tvs and rewrite their logic so that the user can do wathever he wants. Maybe marketing the modding kits. That would be more akin to those people who install custom open source bios on IBM Thinkpads.
  - danpalmer 5y ago
    Recycling and modding would be great, but I'd also like to be able to buy a new high-end TV without smart features.
    - julianlam 5y ago
      You can, sceptre makes a number of models, all of which have no smart features at all. Aimed for the home market
      - 5y ago
lucioperca 5y ago
Privacy paradox at work.
- shoto_io 5y ago
  People say they cared about privacy and then don’t if it’s more expensive?
sithadmin 5y ago
There is a huge market for 'dumb panels', under the moniker of 'digital signage'. Nearly every major TV vendor has 'dumb' displays SKUs on offer in many different configs. The only problem is that they aren't always easy to get one's hand on, as they usually are sold through b2b channels instead of consumer-facing retail outlets.
- mchristen 5y ago
  They are oftentimes way more expense, I'm guessing because you aren't subsidizing the cost with your data.
  - caturopath 5y ago
    I think the bigger factor is that they are b2b, though certainly selling the crapware helps subsidize the consumer models.
  - cbm-vic-20 5y ago
    More likely market segmentation- it's a lot easier to sell a panel to a business for $2000 than it is to sell the same panel to a consumer for $500.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - wlesieutre 5y ago
    There's regular dumb TVs around too, and reasonably priced. Walmart's site lets you filter for "Smart = N". Sceptre and RCA are the main brands. For example https://www.walmart.com/ip/RCA-65-Class-4K-Ultra-HD-2160P-LED-TV-RTU6549/55540605 https://www.walmart.com/ip/RCA-65-Class-4K-Ultra-HD-2160P-LE...
    - atomicfiredoll 5y ago
      To offer a non-walmart option, I've been using the Rtings table tool to find consumer TVs are potentially more respectful of privacy. Although I get the impression a number of sets aren't captured here (maybe walmart has some listed that Rtings doesn't), they are fairly thorough. https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/table/53948 https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/table/53948
notyourday 5y ago
https://www.sceptre.com/ https://www.sceptre.com/ has a nice selection of dumb TVs at reasonable prices
robin_reala 5y ago
There’s a Samsung firmware hacking community: https://forum.samygo.tv/ https://forum.samygo.tv/
cosmojg 5y ago
Maybe finding a line of televisions we could reliably lobotomize would work in the short term (a la Librebooted ThinkPads).
sen 5y ago
I replaced my TV with an LG 43” 4K monitor which cost AUD$700 (similar price to a TV of the same brand/size here). It’s not quite the 50” my TV was but it’s big enough for my purposes. It has 4 HDMI inputs and zero smart features. Turns on in under a second, etc. Before that I had a TV that required almost a full minute to start up before I could change AV input or change channel or do anything because it had to load it’s bloated smart crap.
pabs3 5y ago
Some years ago SamyGO was started towards replacing TV firmware, not sure how far they got though: https://www.samygo.tv/ https://www.samygo.tv/ Since most TVs probably run Linux it probably isn't hard, but will have the usual problems of non-mainline drivers, blobs etc.
peatmoss 5y ago
In addition to the privacy benefits, you could potentially build a controller that actually turns on Really Fast. Modern smart TVs just feel slow in every way.
jadbox 5y ago
"Smart tvs but with user replaceable firmware" THIS, I've never thought about it before, but I'd definitely pay extra for a TV that has a open firmware for users to replace.
dividuum 5y ago
Here's a company that sells dumb panels with a HDMI input and Pi Compute Module attached to them: https://www.distec.de/en/products/monitor-solutions/iot-monitor/ https://www.distec.de/en/products/monitor-solutions/iot-moni...

ff317 5y ago

I've been buying "Sceptre" -brand LCD TVs for use around the house the past several years. They're "dumb" with just a basic remote and basic settings firmware like TVs from a decade or two ago, and they tend to be reasonably priced, and of reasonable quality. Plug a streaming stick or your RPi in the back for your choice of $Streaming_TV service. They now also make units with Android TV built in, but so far they're still making non-smart models as well!

jmrm 5y ago

I don't know about OLED and other fancy panels (like Micro LED, QLED, etc.), but for common LCD panels there are plenty of controller available to use them, even with 4K resolution [1]. And panels aren't difficult to find because they are used to repair other television. The problem here is to protect it about dust and dirt, also not having a convenient and easy to use user interface. IMO the best middle point is buying a LG Smart TV. They have Amazon Prime, Amazon Alexa, Netflix, and other platform installed, but IIRC you can uninstall this apps and you can't use them until you accept the terms and conditions. If you don't accept them you shouldn't worry about them. I haven't used Wireshark to know if that apps use the network even without using them, but at least isn't the same to some Samsung TV that insert ads in the menus when your TV is connected to the Internet. [1]: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33001887592.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33001887592.html

danpalmer 5y ago

"Dumb TVs" would cost more. It's hard to market something that costs more and has what most people would perceive to be fewer features. They would cost more because post-sale content sales and advertising generate revenue for TV manufacturers, which they use to subsidise the device sale price, because it's such a competitive, low-margin, market.

ashtonkem 5y ago
I think you might be underestimating the cost of developing or licensing smart TV software.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
fctorial 5y ago
It isn't hard to market something that costs more and lacks a flaw.
- danpalmer 5y ago
  This is why I saw "what most people consider". It's easy to market this to HN but most people don't know or care about this sort of control over their devices.
ulzeraj 5y ago
> It's hard to market something that costs more and has what most people would perceive to be fewer features. I'd pay for privacy and control. The other option like I've said is to recycle and mod smart tvs and rewrite their logic so that the user can do wathever he wants. Maybe marketing the modding kits. That would be more akin to those people who install custom open source bios on IBM Thinkpads.
- danpalmer 5y ago
  Recycling and modding would be great, but I'd also like to be able to buy a new high-end TV without smart features.
  - julianlam 5y ago
    You can, sceptre makes a number of models, all of which have no smart features at all. Aimed for the home market
    - 5y ago

lucioperca 5y ago

Privacy paradox at work.

shoto_io 5y ago
People say they cared about privacy and then don’t if it’s more expensive?

sithadmin 5y ago

There is a huge market for 'dumb panels', under the moniker of 'digital signage'. Nearly every major TV vendor has 'dumb' displays SKUs on offer in many different configs. The only problem is that they aren't always easy to get one's hand on, as they usually are sold through b2b channels instead of consumer-facing retail outlets.

mchristen 5y ago
They are oftentimes way more expense, I'm guessing because you aren't subsidizing the cost with your data.
- caturopath 5y ago
  I think the bigger factor is that they are b2b, though certainly selling the crapware helps subsidize the consumer models.
- cbm-vic-20 5y ago
  More likely market segmentation- it's a lot easier to sell a panel to a business for $2000 than it is to sell the same panel to a consumer for $500.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- wlesieutre 5y ago
  There's regular dumb TVs around too, and reasonably priced. Walmart's site lets you filter for "Smart = N". Sceptre and RCA are the main brands. For example https://www.walmart.com/ip/RCA-65-Class-4K-Ultra-HD-2160P-LED-TV-RTU6549/55540605 https://www.walmart.com/ip/RCA-65-Class-4K-Ultra-HD-2160P-LE...
  - atomicfiredoll 5y ago
    To offer a non-walmart option, I've been using the Rtings table tool to find consumer TVs are potentially more respectful of privacy. Although I get the impression a number of sets aren't captured here (maybe walmart has some listed that Rtings doesn't), they are fairly thorough. https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/table/53948 https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/table/53948

notyourday 5y ago

https://www.sceptre.com/ https://www.sceptre.com/ has a nice selection of dumb TVs at reasonable prices

robin_reala 5y ago

There’s a Samsung firmware hacking community: https://forum.samygo.tv/ https://forum.samygo.tv/

cosmojg 5y ago

Maybe finding a line of televisions we could reliably lobotomize would work in the short term (a la Librebooted ThinkPads).

sen 5y ago

I replaced my TV with an LG 43” 4K monitor which cost AUD$700 (similar price to a TV of the same brand/size here). It’s not quite the 50” my TV was but it’s big enough for my purposes. It has 4 HDMI inputs and zero smart features. Turns on in under a second, etc. Before that I had a TV that required almost a full minute to start up before I could change AV input or change channel or do anything because it had to load it’s bloated smart crap.

pabs3 5y ago

Some years ago SamyGO was started towards replacing TV firmware, not sure how far they got though: https://www.samygo.tv/ https://www.samygo.tv/ Since most TVs probably run Linux it probably isn't hard, but will have the usual problems of non-mainline drivers, blobs etc.

peatmoss 5y ago

In addition to the privacy benefits, you could potentially build a controller that actually turns on Really Fast. Modern smart TVs just feel slow in every way.

jadbox 5y ago

"Smart tvs but with user replaceable firmware" THIS, I've never thought about it before, but I'd definitely pay extra for a TV that has a open firmware for users to replace.

dividuum 5y ago

Here's a company that sells dumb panels with a HDMI input and Pi Compute Module attached to them: https://www.distec.de/en/products/monitor-solutions/iot-monitor/ https://www.distec.de/en/products/monitor-solutions/iot-moni...