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Babel is one of the most popular and widely-used tools in the history of web development. Why should its developers and maintainers not make at least as much mo

Babel is one of the most popular and widely-used tools in the history of web development. Why should its developers and maintainers not make at least as much money as entry-level Silicon Valley developers?

kuschku 5y ago
Why should they make more than senior engineers with decades of experience in Berlin? Why should customers/users of the project have to pay/donate twice or thrice as much for the same result, just because the devs want to live in the US instead of e.g. Paris?
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Why should users of babel feel enttitled not to pay anything at all in contrast with other professions?
  - _dibly 5y ago
    Because it's free?
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      Until it is gone as developers look for a proper source of income. https://www.theregister.com/2021/05/10/untangling_open_sources_sustainability_problem/ https://www.theregister.com/2021/05/10/untangling_open_sourc...
  - matkoniecz 5y ago
    Why current Babel maintainers (not the main author who gets nothing!) would be entitled to donations? They need to convince people/corporations to donate, default is that they get nothing.
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      Why does the backer feel entitled to be paid for their bread? They need to convice people to stop taking it from the expositor. Why does the mechanic feel entitled to be paid for their repairs? They need to convice people to stop driving away. Why does the .... feel entitled to be paid for their work?
- bidirectional 5y ago
  A handful of people doing highly technical compiler work relied upon by much of the industry, while also being experts in JS probably do deserve to be paid more than the average senior in Berlin. These aren't cheap skills, the people who are this good can probably get remote work at well-paying US companies wherever they live.
- shados 5y ago
  Because one of the primary "competing" project (TypeScript) is developed on payroll of a FAAMG. With that said, nothing stopping those people in Berlin from stepping up to other high profile open source projects that are looking for maintainers, raise the same amount of money, and essentially be twice as well off.
uncomputation 5y ago
What entry level SV dev makes 11,000 x 12 = 132,000 x 1.25 (tax) = $165k/year pre-tax? I know the salaries here are high but let’s not get ahead of ourselves. If they are that high for entry level then I’m being seriously underpaid :/
- axguscbklp 5y ago
  I am assuming that in the article the $11k/month figure is pre-tax. It is higher than Silicon Valley entry-level, I think, but I had thought that it is not higher by much. However, I just did a bit of Googling that made me realize that maybe I am significantly overestimating entry-level Silicon Valley salaries.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- sdevonoes 5y ago
  Everybody who is not working for FAANG-level/SV is underpaid. That's like 90% of the developers in the world (I include myself), so don't feel bad :)
- Mc91 5y ago
  In 2020, here are some companies paying $195k-$230k for entry level programmers - https://www.levels.fyi/2020/ https://www.levels.fyi/2020/ FAANG is not on the list, FAANG pays $180k-$190k for entry level (Netflix does not recruit entry level much though). So total compensation, entry level at some places is $15k higher, or more.
  - uncomputation 5y ago
    A little off-topic I suppose but TC being nearly $200k but salary being $130k always feels disappointing to me, especially since RSUs rarely vest within year 1.
- ZephyrBlu 5y ago
  I thought the 11k/mo was pre-tax but regardless, with stock they can be higher than $165k.

kuschku 5y ago

Why should they make more than senior engineers with decades of experience in Berlin? Why should customers/users of the project have to pay/donate twice or thrice as much for the same result, just because the devs want to live in the US instead of e.g. Paris?

pjmlp 5y ago
Why should users of babel feel enttitled not to pay anything at all in contrast with other professions?
- _dibly 5y ago
  Because it's free?
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Until it is gone as developers look for a proper source of income. https://www.theregister.com/2021/05/10/untangling_open_sources_sustainability_problem/ https://www.theregister.com/2021/05/10/untangling_open_sourc...
- matkoniecz 5y ago
  Why current Babel maintainers (not the main author who gets nothing!) would be entitled to donations? They need to convince people/corporations to donate, default is that they get nothing.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Why does the backer feel entitled to be paid for their bread? They need to convice people to stop taking it from the expositor. Why does the mechanic feel entitled to be paid for their repairs? They need to convice people to stop driving away. Why does the .... feel entitled to be paid for their work?
bidirectional 5y ago
A handful of people doing highly technical compiler work relied upon by much of the industry, while also being experts in JS probably do deserve to be paid more than the average senior in Berlin. These aren't cheap skills, the people who are this good can probably get remote work at well-paying US companies wherever they live.
shados 5y ago
Because one of the primary "competing" project (TypeScript) is developed on payroll of a FAAMG. With that said, nothing stopping those people in Berlin from stepping up to other high profile open source projects that are looking for maintainers, raise the same amount of money, and essentially be twice as well off.

uncomputation 5y ago

What entry level SV dev makes 11,000 x 12 = 132,000 x 1.25 (tax) = $165k/year pre-tax? I know the salaries here are high but let’s not get ahead of ourselves. If they are that high for entry level then I’m being seriously underpaid :/

axguscbklp 5y ago
I am assuming that in the article the $11k/month figure is pre-tax. It is higher than Silicon Valley entry-level, I think, but I had thought that it is not higher by much. However, I just did a bit of Googling that made me realize that maybe I am significantly overestimating entry-level Silicon Valley salaries.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
sdevonoes 5y ago
Everybody who is not working for FAANG-level/SV is underpaid. That's like 90% of the developers in the world (I include myself), so don't feel bad :)
Mc91 5y ago
In 2020, here are some companies paying $195k-$230k for entry level programmers - https://www.levels.fyi/2020/ https://www.levels.fyi/2020/ FAANG is not on the list, FAANG pays $180k-$190k for entry level (Netflix does not recruit entry level much though). So total compensation, entry level at some places is $15k higher, or more.
- uncomputation 5y ago
  A little off-topic I suppose but TC being nearly $200k but salary being $130k always feels disappointing to me, especially since RSUs rarely vest within year 1.
ZephyrBlu 5y ago
I thought the 11k/mo was pre-tax but regardless, with stock they can be higher than $165k.