5 ms·

It has a name [1] except everyone is really careful not to say it to not piss off the right wingers and get called communists. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wik

It has a name [1] except everyone is really careful not to say it to not piss off the right wingers and get called communists. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income

vmception 5y ago
I also avoid words I say things like "California is not a market-based economy right now" instead of saying what non-market-based systems are called. It goes over better with Americans who are more universally triggered by certain words, instead of their definitions. second example I've had surprising luck with over the past several years is that I tell people that big pharma doesn't want them to know that our body can build immunity by being exposed to weakened and dead versions of viruses. They're like "I knew it, natural remedies all along!", they are just allergic to the word vaccine and not the concept.
lainga 5y ago
Isn't UBI supposed to be funded by taxes and thus not as inflationary as giving new money where it's most likely to be spent?
- skybrian 5y ago
  UBI doesn't say anything directly about where the money comes from. It's whatever plan you want it to be. (Or more charitably, a family of plans with a common feature.) You can get any redistribution you like depending on how the offsetting taxes work (if any).
- pilsetnieks 5y ago
  The basic tenet is the "universal basic income" part, the source of funding is not as clear cut. It could be funded by taxes, it could be funded by inflation, it could be funded by something else. Except funding it by inflation long term would probably not be too healthy for the economy as a whole.
- lupire 5y ago
  Yes, that's why senators and president are proposing tax hikes.
- Ericson2314 5y ago
  "inflationary" is a very complicated concept. It definitely isn't caused by increases in a "quantity of money", as the latter concept doesn't really hold up to scrutiny in the first place.
  - alentist 5y ago
    Yes it is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Zimbabwe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Zimbabwe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Venezuela https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Venezuela
icelancer 5y ago
Many libertarians (Milton Friedman among them) support a concept like this. It isn't a left/right thing. In fact, many liberals staunchly oppose UBI-type initiatives.
- Daishiman 5y ago
  They support it on paper but in practice I have yet to see any libertarian working under the banner of that platform. All libertarians I have seen actually doing politics are corporatists.
  - rriepe 5y ago
    I'm a libertarian who supports UBI. Or I did until I realized my conception of it was different from most supporters. Libertarians who support UBI think of it as replacing the other stuff. This is a wildly unpopular opinion on the left, who want everything else (welfare, college, childcare, healthcare, retirement) and UBI. Any libertarian non-corporatist supporter of UBI would not only have to win against his better-funded corporatist opponents, but would need to win with a "Let's get rid of social security for this other thing" pitch. You're more likely to find Bigfoot riding a unicorn.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > Libertarians who support UBI think of it as replacing the other stuff. This is a wildly unpopular opinion on the left AFAICT, as a left-wing UBI supporter who sees it as replacing lots of other stuff, that depends which other stuff and how you plan on replacing it; phased (such as by counting a UBI introduced at a low rate and increased over time) displacement of means-tested welfare programs is not all unpopular on the left. Displacing means-tested healthcare (Medicaid/CHIP) has more mixed reactions (healthcare policy in general is contentious within the left). Displacing earned benefits (Medicare, Social Security, Unemployment insurance) is even more likely to be rejected (though in this case the general controversy over healthcare works in your favor with Medicare, as its probably the least universally toxic of these on the left.) Displacing minimum wage with it also isn't too popular on the left. Where you run into problems with some stuff that isn’t problematic on its own is when you don’t have a plan for a robust, mature UBI but you want a big-bang cold-turkey replacement of programs that what you do propose for UBI can’t come close to dollar-for-dollar substituting for for current recipients.

vmception 5y ago

I also avoid words I say things like "California is not a market-based economy right now" instead of saying what non-market-based systems are called. It goes over better with Americans who are more universally triggered by certain words, instead of their definitions. second example I've had surprising luck with over the past several years is that I tell people that big pharma doesn't want them to know that our body can build immunity by being exposed to weakened and dead versions of viruses. They're like "I knew it, natural remedies all along!", they are just allergic to the word vaccine and not the concept.

lainga 5y ago

Isn't UBI supposed to be funded by taxes and thus not as inflationary as giving new money where it's most likely to be spent?

skybrian 5y ago
UBI doesn't say anything directly about where the money comes from. It's whatever plan you want it to be. (Or more charitably, a family of plans with a common feature.) You can get any redistribution you like depending on how the offsetting taxes work (if any).
pilsetnieks 5y ago
The basic tenet is the "universal basic income" part, the source of funding is not as clear cut. It could be funded by taxes, it could be funded by inflation, it could be funded by something else. Except funding it by inflation long term would probably not be too healthy for the economy as a whole.
lupire 5y ago
Yes, that's why senators and president are proposing tax hikes.
Ericson2314 5y ago
"inflationary" is a very complicated concept. It definitely isn't caused by increases in a "quantity of money", as the latter concept doesn't really hold up to scrutiny in the first place.
- alentist 5y ago
  Yes it is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Zimbabwe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Zimbabwe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Venezuela https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Venezuela

icelancer 5y ago

Many libertarians (Milton Friedman among them) support a concept like this. It isn't a left/right thing. In fact, many liberals staunchly oppose UBI-type initiatives.

Daishiman 5y ago
They support it on paper but in practice I have yet to see any libertarian working under the banner of that platform. All libertarians I have seen actually doing politics are corporatists.
- rriepe 5y ago
  I'm a libertarian who supports UBI. Or I did until I realized my conception of it was different from most supporters. Libertarians who support UBI think of it as replacing the other stuff. This is a wildly unpopular opinion on the left, who want everything else (welfare, college, childcare, healthcare, retirement) and UBI. Any libertarian non-corporatist supporter of UBI would not only have to win against his better-funded corporatist opponents, but would need to win with a "Let's get rid of social security for this other thing" pitch. You're more likely to find Bigfoot riding a unicorn.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Libertarians who support UBI think of it as replacing the other stuff. This is a wildly unpopular opinion on the left AFAICT, as a left-wing UBI supporter who sees it as replacing lots of other stuff, that depends which other stuff and how you plan on replacing it; phased (such as by counting a UBI introduced at a low rate and increased over time) displacement of means-tested welfare programs is not all unpopular on the left. Displacing means-tested healthcare (Medicaid/CHIP) has more mixed reactions (healthcare policy in general is contentious within the left). Displacing earned benefits (Medicare, Social Security, Unemployment insurance) is even more likely to be rejected (though in this case the general controversy over healthcare works in your favor with Medicare, as its probably the least universally toxic of these on the left.) Displacing minimum wage with it also isn't too popular on the left. Where you run into problems with some stuff that isn’t problematic on its own is when you don’t have a plan for a robust, mature UBI but you want a big-bang cold-turkey replacement of programs that what you do propose for UBI can’t come close to dollar-for-dollar substituting for for current recipients.