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Forget long-term effects. One only needs to point out that more kids had "severe" reactions to the vaccine (>2%) than had Covid in the trial (1.6%). This approv

by timr 6y ago

Forget long-term effects. One only needs to point out that more kids had "severe" reactions to the vaccine (>2%) than had Covid in the trial (1.6%). This approval was based on a tiny sample (1100 kids) over 2 months. https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-authorizes-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-emergency-use https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavi... (Edit - side-effect data starts on page 25 here: https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download) There are legitimate reasons to question the rapid approval of this vaccine in children. It's certainly not something worth mocking. And I say that as someone who is fully vaccinated.

neuronexmachina 6y ago
> more kids had "severe" reactions to the vaccine (>2%) Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but where are you seeing this in the news release?
- timr 6y ago
  Sorry, It starts on page 25 here: https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download
lthornberry 6y ago
Again, the severe reactions documented here are not all that bad.
staticassertion 6y ago
OK so if you take into account almost any transmission rate we've seen that seems like it easily balances out, even not taking into account potential for mutations and the classification of severe. I have a "severe" reaction to alcohol every time I drink too much.
- timr 6y ago
  Vaccination of children is not required to reduce the number of deaths from Covid-19 to a number asymptotically approaching zero. Focusing myopically on "transmission rate" misses the broader conversation about risk and benefit. Giving tens/hundreds of thousands of kids an illness on par with the flu to marginally reduce the theoretical risk of illness in an unvaccinated stranger...this is a choice that can be made, but I think it's a tougher decision than you do.
  - randomopining 6y ago
    Yeah no one is forcing them, so what’s your point? Vaccination of children wouldn’t be needed if most adults got it. But they don’t because they’re dumb. So now they’re saying children can get it if they’re parents want. It’s a choice to do your part to reduce the spread. Pretty simple.
    - timr 6y ago
      > But they don’t because they’re dumb Given that some of the the lowest vaccination uptake rates are in black and latino communities who have historically strained relationships with the medical system -- as well as some of the highest prior infection rates -- your comment is misinformed. Whatever the current level of immunity may be, cases, hospitalizations and deaths are all rapidly declining across the US. Moreover, the vaccines are all close to 100% effective at preventing severe illness. There are a great many reasons to be optimistic about our current trajectory, and no immediate need to put children at risk to get where we need to go.
      - pseudalopex 6y ago
        Vaccine refusal is more partisan than racial.[1] [1] https://poll.qu.edu/images/polling/us/us04142021_uscd43.pdf#page=13 https://poll.qu.edu/images/polling/us/us04142021_uscd43.pdf#...
        timr 6y ago
        The numbers you're citing say that 19% of black and 30% of hispanic people surveyed don't plan to get vaccinated. The equivalent number is 24% for white people. Moreover, empirical reality differs from polling. In New York City, for example (a big, liberal, multi-ethnic city), Latino people lag whites by 12% in vaccination rate; black people lag by 17%: https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data-vaccines.page https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data-vaccines.p... Whatever people are telling pollsters, it differs from their actions. Maybe they have "plans" to get vaccinated, but they're not doing it right now.

by timr 6y ago

neuronexmachina 6y ago

> more kids had "severe" reactions to the vaccine (>2%) Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but where are you seeing this in the news release?

timr 6y ago
Sorry, It starts on page 25 here: https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download

lthornberry 6y ago

Again, the severe reactions documented here are not all that bad.

staticassertion 6y ago

OK so if you take into account almost any transmission rate we've seen that seems like it easily balances out, even not taking into account potential for mutations and the classification of severe. I have a "severe" reaction to alcohol every time I drink too much.

timr 6y ago
Vaccination of children is not required to reduce the number of deaths from Covid-19 to a number asymptotically approaching zero. Focusing myopically on "transmission rate" misses the broader conversation about risk and benefit. Giving tens/hundreds of thousands of kids an illness on par with the flu to marginally reduce the theoretical risk of illness in an unvaccinated stranger...this is a choice that can be made, but I think it's a tougher decision than you do.
- randomopining 6y ago
  Yeah no one is forcing them, so what’s your point? Vaccination of children wouldn’t be needed if most adults got it. But they don’t because they’re dumb. So now they’re saying children can get it if they’re parents want. It’s a choice to do your part to reduce the spread. Pretty simple.
  - timr 6y ago
    > But they don’t because they’re dumb Given that some of the the lowest vaccination uptake rates are in black and latino communities who have historically strained relationships with the medical system -- as well as some of the highest prior infection rates -- your comment is misinformed. Whatever the current level of immunity may be, cases, hospitalizations and deaths are all rapidly declining across the US. Moreover, the vaccines are all close to 100% effective at preventing severe illness. There are a great many reasons to be optimistic about our current trajectory, and no immediate need to put children at risk to get where we need to go.
    - pseudalopex 6y ago
      Vaccine refusal is more partisan than racial.[1] [1] https://poll.qu.edu/images/polling/us/us04142021_uscd43.pdf#page=13 https://poll.qu.edu/images/polling/us/us04142021_uscd43.pdf#...
      - timr 6y ago
        The numbers you're citing say that 19% of black and 30% of hispanic people surveyed don't plan to get vaccinated. The equivalent number is 24% for white people. Moreover, empirical reality differs from polling. In New York City, for example (a big, liberal, multi-ethnic city), Latino people lag whites by 12% in vaccination rate; black people lag by 17%: https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data-vaccines.page https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data-vaccines.p... Whatever people are telling pollsters, it differs from their actions. Maybe they have "plans" to get vaccinated, but they're not doing it right now.