5 ms·

I'm struggling with this, I can't find a formula to translate US salaries to European ones (UK, FR, DE, mainly). On the one hand in the US if you save a lot, y

I'm struggling with this, I can't find a formula to translate US salaries to European ones (UK, FR, DE, mainly). On the one hand in the US if you save a lot, you can retire early and move somewhere cheap. On the other hand in Europe a lot of things are covered for you without having to deduct them from the salary. If anyone has researched this subject I'd love some links.

gpm 5y ago
It seems like you should just be comparing pre-tax salary converted into the same currency?
- Raed667 5y ago
  Not really, for example in France I can go and do a full-spectrum healthcare check (eyes, dental, physical, mental, name it...) and it would cost me -in total- less than 100€ nothing is deduced from my salary. One year of prestigious university is less than 600€ in fees... Cost of living, education, transportation, etc... also are a factor.
  - gpm 5y ago
    The health check is paid for out of taxes though, in the end money/goods/services aren't free. I mean sure, France's government and health care system is probably a bit more efficient than America's, but I doubt it's order of magnitude different. Maybe more importantly, but in the other direction, as a developer in France you're probably paying more for healthcare than you use (subsidizing the average person who pays less taxes). Quite arguably differences like those are things that you are purchasing with your salary by choosing to live in the US instead of France, I don't think it's either desirable or really possible to eliminate them.
    - Raed667 5y ago
      Hence my inability to compare a 150k$ offer in California to a 62k€ offer in Lyon.
      - gpm 5y ago
        I mean, completing my argument with those numbers 62k€ = 75k usd, 150 - 75 = 75. so assuming both numbers are before tax (and neglecting things like bonuses, benefits, equity, etc that you probably need to add into both numbers), there's your comparison. Now the question to you is "is Lyon worth 75k/year over California". That's not a question of compensation, that's just a question of how much you value the difference in culture and society. Do you want to spend 75k$/year on purchasing universal healthcare (edit: I.e. your share of healthcare for everyone instead of what you purchase in the US, which is approximately just healthcare for you), a better public education system, a better social security system, less... American... neighbors, and/or whatever else you think Lyon gives you over California. Edit: Accidentally had this saying "after tax" instead of "before tax" for an hour, I think everyone replying to me mentally corrected that anyways, but noting that I fixed it here in case they didn't.
        Keats 5y ago
        French always use before taxes numbers ("brut"). €62k is about 41k after taxes.
        gpm 5y ago
        I'm the first to admit I have no clue about the French tax system, but a quick search finds this [1] that suggests there are both employer and employee paid taxes. Would I be right in assuming that the reported numbers are after the employer paid taxes and before the employee paid ones? [1] https://www.cabinet-roche.com/en/payroll-taxes-in-france/ https://www.cabinet-roche.com/en/payroll-taxes-in-france/
        Raed667 5y ago
        TBH for the average employee it doesn't matter if the company or you are paying, it gets deducted automatically anyway. There are websites [0] that will help you do the conversion Brut/Net easily [0] https://www.salaire-brut-en-net.fr/ https://www.salaire-brut-en-net.fr/
        5y ago
    - benhurmarcel 5y ago
      > The health check is paid for out of taxes though In Europe most of those taxes are paid by your employer, on top of your "before taxes" salary.
  - HideousKojima 5y ago
    Average cost of healthcare in the US is ~$15,000 a year for a family of 4. When you're working full time, your employer generally covers most of your healthcare with a small amount contributed by you, and this employer contribution is counted separately from your salary. It depends on the employer, but the cost to you is generally in the range of $1,000-$6,000 a year. So no guarantee of health care coverage after losing your job etc. but it's basically only ~$6,000 extra a year out of your salary at worst. So a $150,000 job in the U.S. is roughly equivalent to a $144,000 job in Europe (before you get into housing and food prices etc.)
- Jommi 5y ago
  Pre-tax doesnt include: - Childcare - Full healthcare expenses - Transportation - Security
- deleted 5y ago
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_delirium 5y ago
It's pretty complicated in general. For example, if you have kids, the European advantage tends to be bigger than if you don't (depending on which country, this may include subsidized daycare, cheaper or free college tuition, cheaper or free healthcare, etc.). In my particular case, when moving from the UK to the US, my estimate is that the "headline" salary number for the US offer I got overstated my pay by about 30% when comparing on a "like for like" basis with the UK salary. It was still a pay increase, but not by as much as you would think from just looking at the two salary numbers. The main differences were: 1) my UK taxes were lower, 2) the UK job made pension contributions worth about 18% of salary, while the US one didn't, and 3) the US job deducts about 5% of my salary for health insurance premiums.
- nly 5y ago
  I don't see how taxes were lower in the UK to be honest.
  - Mauricebranagh 5y ago
    It is if you take the US health insurance cost and compare it to the uk employees NI. And UK has 20k PA ISA allowance (put 20k beyond tax) and a 12.3 k CGT Allowance and we don't get crucified on employee shares, if my EMI shares vest I pay no income tax and 10% CGT
  - deleted 5y ago
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  - deleted 5y ago
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kube-system 5y ago
There's no good formula to convert salaries from one part of the US to another part of the US. :) Even to do that, you need to consider: * State and local income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes * The value of the particular benefits packages at the respective jobs * The comparative cost of living difference (housing can be up to a 10x difference) * Insurance rate differences (which can vary widely because most insurance regulations are per-state)
stinos 5y ago
Spot on. Whenever reading articles regarding salary expressed in USD I honestly have no clue what I'm looking at. Numbers sometimes look wild in comparison with what I get in euros. Yet the latter is well above average in my country. And those are just the bare numbers; then there are the factors sibling comments point out. tldr; impossible to compare, we need the same hastag with _eur appended?
deleted 5y ago
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gpm 5y ago

It seems like you should just be comparing pre-tax salary converted into the same currency?

Raed667 5y ago
Not really, for example in France I can go and do a full-spectrum healthcare check (eyes, dental, physical, mental, name it...) and it would cost me -in total- less than 100€ nothing is deduced from my salary. One year of prestigious university is less than 600€ in fees... Cost of living, education, transportation, etc... also are a factor.
- gpm 5y ago
  The health check is paid for out of taxes though, in the end money/goods/services aren't free. I mean sure, France's government and health care system is probably a bit more efficient than America's, but I doubt it's order of magnitude different. Maybe more importantly, but in the other direction, as a developer in France you're probably paying more for healthcare than you use (subsidizing the average person who pays less taxes). Quite arguably differences like those are things that you are purchasing with your salary by choosing to live in the US instead of France, I don't think it's either desirable or really possible to eliminate them.
  - Raed667 5y ago
    Hence my inability to compare a 150k$ offer in California to a 62k€ offer in Lyon.
    - gpm 5y ago
      I mean, completing my argument with those numbers 62k€ = 75k usd, 150 - 75 = 75. so assuming both numbers are before tax (and neglecting things like bonuses, benefits, equity, etc that you probably need to add into both numbers), there's your comparison. Now the question to you is "is Lyon worth 75k/year over California". That's not a question of compensation, that's just a question of how much you value the difference in culture and society. Do you want to spend 75k$/year on purchasing universal healthcare (edit: I.e. your share of healthcare for everyone instead of what you purchase in the US, which is approximately just healthcare for you), a better public education system, a better social security system, less... American... neighbors, and/or whatever else you think Lyon gives you over California. Edit: Accidentally had this saying "after tax" instead of "before tax" for an hour, I think everyone replying to me mentally corrected that anyways, but noting that I fixed it here in case they didn't.
      - Keats 5y ago
        French always use before taxes numbers ("brut"). €62k is about 41k after taxes.
        gpm 5y ago
        I'm the first to admit I have no clue about the French tax system, but a quick search finds this [1] that suggests there are both employer and employee paid taxes. Would I be right in assuming that the reported numbers are after the employer paid taxes and before the employee paid ones? [1] https://www.cabinet-roche.com/en/payroll-taxes-in-france/ https://www.cabinet-roche.com/en/payroll-taxes-in-france/
        Raed667 5y ago
        TBH for the average employee it doesn't matter if the company or you are paying, it gets deducted automatically anyway. There are websites [0] that will help you do the conversion Brut/Net easily [0] https://www.salaire-brut-en-net.fr/ https://www.salaire-brut-en-net.fr/
      - 5y ago
  - benhurmarcel 5y ago
    > The health check is paid for out of taxes though In Europe most of those taxes are paid by your employer, on top of your "before taxes" salary.
- HideousKojima 5y ago
  Average cost of healthcare in the US is ~$15,000 a year for a family of 4. When you're working full time, your employer generally covers most of your healthcare with a small amount contributed by you, and this employer contribution is counted separately from your salary. It depends on the employer, but the cost to you is generally in the range of $1,000-$6,000 a year. So no guarantee of health care coverage after losing your job etc. but it's basically only ~$6,000 extra a year out of your salary at worst. So a $150,000 job in the U.S. is roughly equivalent to a $144,000 job in Europe (before you get into housing and food prices etc.)
Jommi 5y ago
Pre-tax doesnt include: - Childcare - Full healthcare expenses - Transportation - Security
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

_delirium 5y ago

It's pretty complicated in general. For example, if you have kids, the European advantage tends to be bigger than if you don't (depending on which country, this may include subsidized daycare, cheaper or free college tuition, cheaper or free healthcare, etc.). In my particular case, when moving from the UK to the US, my estimate is that the "headline" salary number for the US offer I got overstated my pay by about 30% when comparing on a "like for like" basis with the UK salary. It was still a pay increase, but not by as much as you would think from just looking at the two salary numbers. The main differences were: 1) my UK taxes were lower, 2) the UK job made pension contributions worth about 18% of salary, while the US one didn't, and 3) the US job deducts about 5% of my salary for health insurance premiums.

nly 5y ago
I don't see how taxes were lower in the UK to be honest.
- Mauricebranagh 5y ago
  It is if you take the US health insurance cost and compare it to the uk employees NI. And UK has 20k PA ISA allowance (put 20k beyond tax) and a 12.3 k CGT Allowance and we don't get crucified on employee shares, if my EMI shares vest I pay no income tax and 10% CGT
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

kube-system 5y ago

There's no good formula to convert salaries from one part of the US to another part of the US. :) Even to do that, you need to consider: * State and local income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes * The value of the particular benefits packages at the respective jobs * The comparative cost of living difference (housing can be up to a 10x difference) * Insurance rate differences (which can vary widely because most insurance regulations are per-state)

stinos 5y ago

Spot on. Whenever reading articles regarding salary expressed in USD I honestly have no clue what I'm looking at. Numbers sometimes look wild in comparison with what I get in euros. Yet the latter is well above average in my country. And those are just the bare numbers; then there are the factors sibling comments point out. tldr; impossible to compare, we need the same hastag with _eur appended?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]