5 ms·

Climate change may have pushed ancient humans into extinction

16 points by lobocinza 5y ago

mc32 5y ago
The previous climatic changes were to “cool” periods because of vulcanology, etc. Humans at that time may not have had the technological know how to counteract the change in climate: agriculture, grain silos, hybrid plants, synthetic materials, medicines, etc., etc. We have full blown plans to survive a nuclear winter, so I think with respect to les anciens, we have a better chance of beating it, unlike the other humanistic subspecies who didn’t make it out.
- lobocinza 5y ago
  Non-extinction scenarios are still bad. People will survive but many will perish. Also, we have more technology but we may be more fragile as our 'efficiency oriented economy' show us.
Jiocus 5y ago
Climate change also pushed modern humans into existence.
- yogthos 5y ago
  and currently pushing modern humans into extinction again
  - bpodgursky 5y ago
    Ridiculous statements like this do not encourage people to take the real serious problems of global warming seriously. It's a crisis which will be a catastrophe, but under no plausible endgame is extinction for us.
    - Jiocus 5y ago
      I for one hope that Humans might push back climate change.
      - lobocinza 5y ago
        More likely that we adapt to it. There's nothing we can do once things get out of control on a planetary scale.
    - adrianN 5y ago
      Well yeah, humans can survive underground huddled around breeder reactors for hundreds of years. It's pretty hard to get us extinct. It's imho a lot easier to destroy modern civilization as we know it. Widespread wars for water and arable land could totally do it.
    - yogthos 5y ago
      meanwhile in the real world * [defaunation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction#Defaunation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction#Defaunatio...) * [humans just 0.01% of all life but have destroyed 83% of wild mammals](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/21/human-race-just-001-of-all-life-but-has-destroyed-over-80-of-wild-mammals-study https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/21/human-ra...) * [humanity has wiped out 60% of animal populations since 1970, report finds ](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/30/humanity-wiped-out-animals-since-1970-major-report-finds https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/30/humanity...) We're currently seeing a global ecosystem collapse: * [study finds ocean ecosystems likely to collapse in 2020s and land species in 2040s unless global warming stemmed](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/08/wildlife-destruction-not-a-slippery-slope-but-a-series-of-cliff-edges https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/08/wildlife...) * [studies show drought and heat waves will cause massive die-offs, killing most trees alive today.](https://insideclimatenews.org/news/24042020/forest-trees-climate-change-deforestation https://insideclimatenews.org/news/24042020/forest-trees-cli...) * [multiple overlapping crises could trigger 'Global Systemic Collapse'](https://www.sciencealert.com/hundreds-of-top-scientists-warn-combined-environmental-crises-will-cause-global-collapse https://www.sciencealert.com/hundreds-of-top-scientists-warn...) * [246 academics call on government to act now to avoid global collapse ](https://www.nationalobserver.com/2020/02/04/opinion/246-academics-call-government-act-now-avoid-global-collapse https://www.nationalobserver.com/2020/02/04/opinion/246-acad...) * [Planet's largest ecosystems collapse faster than previously forecast](https://phys.org/news/2020-03-planet-largest-ecosystems-collapse-faster.html https://phys.org/news/2020-03-planet-largest-ecosystems-coll...) World's oceans are also acidifying [to a similar rate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification#Rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification#Rate) as the Permian extinction (but again in 100 years instead of 20k-60k), with an [anoxic event](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anoxic_event#Consequences https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anoxic_event#Consequences ) locked in [after 1,000ppm or 360 gigatons](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/09/170920182116.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/09/170920182116.h...), which we will reach by 2100 at the latest. So that's whatever's left wiped out. And here's what's currently happening with food production. Two different groups of 200+ scientists and academics, separately from each other, each warned of near-term global collapse: * https://www.sciencealert.com/hundreds-of-top-scientists-warn-combined-environmental-crises-will-cause-global-collapse https://www.sciencealert.com/hundreds-of-top-scientists-warn... * https://www.nationalobserver.com/2020/02/04/opinion/246-academics-call-government-act-now-avoid-global-collapse https://www.nationalobserver.com/2020/02/04/opinion/246-acad... Examples of record-breaking crop failures currently happening: * https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/06/midwest-rain-climate-change-wrecking-corn-soy-crops/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/06/midwe... * https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/19/extreme-heat-wave-hits-us-farmers-already-suffering-from-flooding.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/19/extreme-heat-wave-hits-us-fa... * https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/may/15/australia-to-import-wheat-for-first-time-in-12-years-as-drought-eats-into-grain-production https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/may/15/austr... * https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jul/20/crop-failure-and-bankruptcy-threaten-farmers-as-drought-grips-europe https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jul/20/crop-fai... * https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-02/low-rice-crop-leads-to-sunrice-job-losses/11566748?pfmredir=sm https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-02/low-rice-crop-lead... * https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/climate-and-people/climate-change-could-cut-fruit-production-almost-third-study/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/climate-and-people... * https://phys.org/news/2019-12-climate-whammy-corn-belt.html https://phys.org/news/2019-12-climate-whammy-corn-belt.html * https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/12/britain-facing-potato-shortage-failure-dredge-rivers-led-flooding/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/12/britain-facing-p... * https://weather.com/science/environment/news/2019-08-01-drought-dam-drive-mekong-river-to-lowest-level-in-100-years https://weather.com/science/environment/news/2019-08-01-drou... * https://phys.org/news/2020-01-atlantic-circulation-collapse-british-crop.html https://phys.org/news/2020-01-atlantic-circulation-collapse-... * https://phys.org/news/2019-12-climate-threat-global-breadbaskets.html https://phys.org/news/2019-12-climate-threat-global-breadbas... * https://phys.org/news/2019-12-large-atmospheric-jet-stream-global.html https://phys.org/news/2019-12-large-atmospheric-jet-stream-g... Scientific studies projecting future crop failures: * [Schlenker and Roberts, 2009. Nonlinear temperature effects indicate severe damages to US crop yields under climate change. PNAS, 106(37), pp.15594-15598](https://www.pnas.org/content/106/37/15594.full https://www.pnas.org/content/106/37/15594.full) * [Mora et al, 2015. Suitable days for plant growth disappear under projected climate change: Potential human and biotic vulnerability. PLoS bio, 13(6), p.e1002167](https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002167 https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/jou...) * [Schauberger et al, 2017. Consistent negative response of US crops to high temperatures in observations and crop models. Nature Comms, 8, p.13931.](https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms13931 https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms13931) * [Sakschewski et al, 2014. Feeding 10 billion people under climate change: How large is the production gap of current agricultural systems?. Ecological modelling, 288, pp.103-111](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263472623_Feeding_10_billion_people_under_climate_change_How_large_is_the_production_gap_of_current_agricultural_systems https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263472623_Feeding_1...) * [Liang et al, 2017. Determining climate effects on US total agricultural productivity. PNAS, 114(12), pp.E2285-E2292](https://www.pnas.org/content/114/12/E2285?collection= https://www.pnas.org/content/114/12/E2285?collection=) News articles about projected crop failures: * [UN says passing 2C will have a 'very high projected risk' of global food supply instabilities](https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/news/climate-change-could-trigger-global-food-crisis-new-u-n-ncna1040236 https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/news/climate-change-could-trigg...) * [UN says passing 2C would cause 'multi-breadbasket failure'](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/08/climate/climate-change-food-supply.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/08/climate/climate-change-fo...) * [UN says passing 2C would cause 60% of global wheat to be subjected to 'Severe Water Scarcity (SVS)' drought events](https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/09/26/new-research-warns-severe-climate-related-droughts-could-threaten-60-global-wheat https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/09/26/new-research-wa...)
hyperman1 5y ago
I notice how the last time, a lot of these climate change posts go uncommented for a long time. Personally, I always feel gloom and doom when seeing them. We are fucked, there is no known scalable way to fix the damage if we wanted, and in fact the western world is partying straight into disaster. Maybe I'm not alone here, so the stories get voted up but not commented on? For what its worth, I see some hope the last few years. Some people are doing something both on a scientific and sociological level. Things are finally moving, even if it is not yet enough.
- Proven 5y ago
  - Nothing was done about Climate Change back then - It was an "extinction" event - In reality, nothing really happened, and here we go again, people feel gloom and doom... > Things are finally moving, even if it is not yet enough. Here's a link for you, Buffet and other heroes who can help the good things happen faster: https://fiscal.treasury.gov/public/gifts-to-government.html https://fiscal.treasury.gov/public/gifts-to-government.html
- bioinformatics 5y ago
  Do something then, you can be the example to us all.
  - whodidwhatnow 5y ago
    > We are fucked, there is no known scalable way to fix the damage if we wanted But there isn't anything to do. We missed our chance.
    - ahevia 5y ago
      Thats a load of dung. We will no doubt be ravaged by climate change and are likely to reach 1.5 - 2 degrees warning, but we are by no means going extinct. Focus on solutions & building resislency, not doom posting on HN https://www.drawdown.org/ https://www.drawdown.org/ https://nori.com/podcasts/reversing-climate-change https://nori.com/podcasts/reversing-climate-change https://gimletmedia.com/shows/howtosaveaplanet https://gimletmedia.com/shows/howtosaveaplanet
zackees 5y ago
For those that didn’t read yet, the author is saying a super volcanic eruption that killed off 96% of the world is climate change. Maybe this author would also argue that a meteor hitting the earth is actually climate change killing the dinosaurs.

16 points by lobocinza 5y ago

mc32 5y ago

The previous climatic changes were to “cool” periods because of vulcanology, etc. Humans at that time may not have had the technological know how to counteract the change in climate: agriculture, grain silos, hybrid plants, synthetic materials, medicines, etc., etc. We have full blown plans to survive a nuclear winter, so I think with respect to les anciens, we have a better chance of beating it, unlike the other humanistic subspecies who didn’t make it out.

lobocinza 5y ago
Non-extinction scenarios are still bad. People will survive but many will perish. Also, we have more technology but we may be more fragile as our 'efficiency oriented economy' show us.

Jiocus 5y ago

Climate change also pushed modern humans into existence.

yogthos 5y ago
and currently pushing modern humans into extinction again
- bpodgursky 5y ago
  Ridiculous statements like this do not encourage people to take the real serious problems of global warming seriously. It's a crisis which will be a catastrophe, but under no plausible endgame is extinction for us.
  - Jiocus 5y ago
    I for one hope that Humans might push back climate change.
    - lobocinza 5y ago
      More likely that we adapt to it. There's nothing we can do once things get out of control on a planetary scale.
  - adrianN 5y ago
    Well yeah, humans can survive underground huddled around breeder reactors for hundreds of years. It's pretty hard to get us extinct. It's imho a lot easier to destroy modern civilization as we know it. Widespread wars for water and arable land could totally do it.
  - yogthos 5y ago
    meanwhile in the real world * [defaunation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction#Defaunation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction#Defaunatio...) * [humans just 0.01% of all life but have destroyed 83% of wild mammals](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/21/human-race-just-001-of-all-life-but-has-destroyed-over-80-of-wild-mammals-study https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/21/human-ra...) * [humanity has wiped out 60% of animal populations since 1970, report finds ](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/30/humanity-wiped-out-animals-since-1970-major-report-finds https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/30/humanity...) We're currently seeing a global ecosystem collapse: * [study finds ocean ecosystems likely to collapse in 2020s and land species in 2040s unless global warming stemmed](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/08/wildlife-destruction-not-a-slippery-slope-but-a-series-of-cliff-edges https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/08/wildlife...) * [studies show drought and heat waves will cause massive die-offs, killing most trees alive today.](https://insideclimatenews.org/news/24042020/forest-trees-climate-change-deforestation https://insideclimatenews.org/news/24042020/forest-trees-cli...) * [multiple overlapping crises could trigger 'Global Systemic Collapse'](https://www.sciencealert.com/hundreds-of-top-scientists-warn-combined-environmental-crises-will-cause-global-collapse https://www.sciencealert.com/hundreds-of-top-scientists-warn...) * [246 academics call on government to act now to avoid global collapse ](https://www.nationalobserver.com/2020/02/04/opinion/246-academics-call-government-act-now-avoid-global-collapse https://www.nationalobserver.com/2020/02/04/opinion/246-acad...) * [Planet's largest ecosystems collapse faster than previously forecast](https://phys.org/news/2020-03-planet-largest-ecosystems-collapse-faster.html https://phys.org/news/2020-03-planet-largest-ecosystems-coll...) World's oceans are also acidifying [to a similar rate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification#Rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification#Rate) as the Permian extinction (but again in 100 years instead of 20k-60k), with an [anoxic event](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anoxic_event#Consequences https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anoxic_event#Consequences ) locked in [after 1,000ppm or 360 gigatons](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/09/170920182116.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/09/170920182116.h...), which we will reach by 2100 at the latest. So that's whatever's left wiped out. And here's what's currently happening with food production. Two different groups of 200+ scientists and academics, separately from each other, each warned of near-term global collapse: * https://www.sciencealert.com/hundreds-of-top-scientists-warn-combined-environmental-crises-will-cause-global-collapse https://www.sciencealert.com/hundreds-of-top-scientists-warn... * https://www.nationalobserver.com/2020/02/04/opinion/246-academics-call-government-act-now-avoid-global-collapse https://www.nationalobserver.com/2020/02/04/opinion/246-acad... Examples of record-breaking crop failures currently happening: * https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/06/midwest-rain-climate-change-wrecking-corn-soy-crops/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/06/midwe... * https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/19/extreme-heat-wave-hits-us-farmers-already-suffering-from-flooding.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/19/extreme-heat-wave-hits-us-fa... * https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/may/15/australia-to-import-wheat-for-first-time-in-12-years-as-drought-eats-into-grain-production https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/may/15/austr... * https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jul/20/crop-failure-and-bankruptcy-threaten-farmers-as-drought-grips-europe https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jul/20/crop-fai... * https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-02/low-rice-crop-leads-to-sunrice-job-losses/11566748?pfmredir=sm https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-02/low-rice-crop-lead... * https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/climate-and-people/climate-change-could-cut-fruit-production-almost-third-study/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/climate-and-people... * https://phys.org/news/2019-12-climate-whammy-corn-belt.html https://phys.org/news/2019-12-climate-whammy-corn-belt.html * https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/12/britain-facing-potato-shortage-failure-dredge-rivers-led-flooding/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/12/britain-facing-p... * https://weather.com/science/environment/news/2019-08-01-drought-dam-drive-mekong-river-to-lowest-level-in-100-years https://weather.com/science/environment/news/2019-08-01-drou... * https://phys.org/news/2020-01-atlantic-circulation-collapse-british-crop.html https://phys.org/news/2020-01-atlantic-circulation-collapse-... * https://phys.org/news/2019-12-climate-threat-global-breadbaskets.html https://phys.org/news/2019-12-climate-threat-global-breadbas... * https://phys.org/news/2019-12-large-atmospheric-jet-stream-global.html https://phys.org/news/2019-12-large-atmospheric-jet-stream-g... Scientific studies projecting future crop failures: * [Schlenker and Roberts, 2009. Nonlinear temperature effects indicate severe damages to US crop yields under climate change. PNAS, 106(37), pp.15594-15598](https://www.pnas.org/content/106/37/15594.full https://www.pnas.org/content/106/37/15594.full) * [Mora et al, 2015. Suitable days for plant growth disappear under projected climate change: Potential human and biotic vulnerability. PLoS bio, 13(6), p.e1002167](https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002167 https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/jou...) * [Schauberger et al, 2017. Consistent negative response of US crops to high temperatures in observations and crop models. Nature Comms, 8, p.13931.](https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms13931 https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms13931) * [Sakschewski et al, 2014. Feeding 10 billion people under climate change: How large is the production gap of current agricultural systems?. Ecological modelling, 288, pp.103-111](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263472623_Feeding_10_billion_people_under_climate_change_How_large_is_the_production_gap_of_current_agricultural_systems https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263472623_Feeding_1...) * [Liang et al, 2017. Determining climate effects on US total agricultural productivity. PNAS, 114(12), pp.E2285-E2292](https://www.pnas.org/content/114/12/E2285?collection= https://www.pnas.org/content/114/12/E2285?collection=) News articles about projected crop failures: * [UN says passing 2C will have a 'very high projected risk' of global food supply instabilities](https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/news/climate-change-could-trigger-global-food-crisis-new-u-n-ncna1040236 https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/news/climate-change-could-trigg...) * [UN says passing 2C would cause 'multi-breadbasket failure'](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/08/climate/climate-change-food-supply.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/08/climate/climate-change-fo...) * [UN says passing 2C would cause 60% of global wheat to be subjected to 'Severe Water Scarcity (SVS)' drought events](https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/09/26/new-research-warns-severe-climate-related-droughts-could-threaten-60-global-wheat https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/09/26/new-research-wa...)

hyperman1 5y ago

I notice how the last time, a lot of these climate change posts go uncommented for a long time. Personally, I always feel gloom and doom when seeing them. We are fucked, there is no known scalable way to fix the damage if we wanted, and in fact the western world is partying straight into disaster. Maybe I'm not alone here, so the stories get voted up but not commented on? For what its worth, I see some hope the last few years. Some people are doing something both on a scientific and sociological level. Things are finally moving, even if it is not yet enough.

Proven 5y ago
- Nothing was done about Climate Change back then - It was an "extinction" event - In reality, nothing really happened, and here we go again, people feel gloom and doom... > Things are finally moving, even if it is not yet enough. Here's a link for you, Buffet and other heroes who can help the good things happen faster: https://fiscal.treasury.gov/public/gifts-to-government.html https://fiscal.treasury.gov/public/gifts-to-government.html
bioinformatics 5y ago
Do something then, you can be the example to us all.
- whodidwhatnow 5y ago
  > We are fucked, there is no known scalable way to fix the damage if we wanted But there isn't anything to do. We missed our chance.
  - ahevia 5y ago
    Thats a load of dung. We will no doubt be ravaged by climate change and are likely to reach 1.5 - 2 degrees warning, but we are by no means going extinct. Focus on solutions & building resislency, not doom posting on HN https://www.drawdown.org/ https://www.drawdown.org/ https://nori.com/podcasts/reversing-climate-change https://nori.com/podcasts/reversing-climate-change https://gimletmedia.com/shows/howtosaveaplanet https://gimletmedia.com/shows/howtosaveaplanet

zackees 5y ago

For those that didn’t read yet, the author is saying a super volcanic eruption that killed off 96% of the world is climate change. Maybe this author would also argue that a meteor hitting the earth is actually climate change killing the dinosaurs.