4 ms·

I laugh when I see people running for 6 miles are doing marathons or Iron Man’s. How can anyone think that is healthy and good for the long term functioning of

by podgaj 5y ago

I laugh when I see people running for 6 miles are doing marathons or Iron Man’s. How can anyone think that is healthy and good for the long term functioning of the body? Study after study has shown that we are meant to be “lazy”. But no one wants to hear that. So listen to this guy, relax!

randomopining 5y ago
6 miles isn’t that long lol. Exercise is good. Otherwise you get weak and shrivel up.
- podgaj 5y ago
  My grandfather lived in 98 never exercised in his life. I know it’s an anecdote, but it’s still data.
  - kaesar14 5y ago
    I’ll find you a couple tens of millions of people who didnt exercise who died well before 98
  - ptero 5y ago
    My grandfather lived into his 90s and as far as I know never "exercised". But during a lot of his life he split firewood and worked 8-hour shifts at a factory (before walking home for an hour or so) and did a lot of other things that would be much more vigorous than regular exercise. A different anecdote.
  - monsieurbanana 5y ago
    > I know it’s an anecdote, but it’s still data That's useful if it's about a subject where there's no studies. But this is whether exercise improves quality of life. There's no shortage of studies about it. Implying that a single anecdote is still data is the bad kind of technically true. I would link to one of those studies, but there's too many of them and I admit I don't know what to choose. https://scholar.google.com.sg/scholar?q=physical+activity+quality+of+life+studies&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart https://scholar.google.com.sg/scholar?q=physical+activity+qu... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0167494310002542 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01674... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0091743507003027 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00917...
  - randomopining 5y ago
    It's quality of life too. For pretty much every human, finding a way to get outside and breath hard is going to feel good. You're gonna sleep better etc. Yeah we all know people who drink 3 cokes a day and aren't fat etc... but I know if I drink a lot of beers or cokes or whatever I feel terrible. When I go for hill sprints I feel amazing after. It's clearly a good habit in a healthy life.
  - qwertox 5y ago
    I never exercised for 20 years. My back did hurt so much that I had to roll out of bed every morning. I started exercising two years ago and now this is no longer an issue. He must have had some kind of exercise, even if it was labeled as "chores" or "job".
- fossuser 5y ago
  There’s a weird thing in the Midwest where I grew up where people talk about exercise as if it’s unhealthy (and basically nobody exercises). Then you come to the Bay Area and see just how much people can really exercise. Older people exercising here seem way healthier than where I grew up. Still when I go home if I say I run 3mi a day people say things like, “that’s bad for your knees” etc. or look at you like you’re crazy. In the Bay Area it’s like I don’t work out at all by comparison.
  - kstrauser 5y ago
    That was my experience, too. I ran one leg of the Big Sur marathon relay. My local friends were like “next year you’ll do a half!” My childhood friends were like “so you never, ever have to do that again, right?”
Buttons840 5y ago
I'm not aware of any such studies, can you recommend one to start with?
ljhsiung 5y ago
Numerous studies show that exercise provides U-shaped benefits to health [1], [2]. Specific to cardiovascular disease, repeat marathon runners [3] have higher calcium buildup than those who do not run in marathons, which as Robin might say, is one of those cases where the animal is driven too hard. While you have a point for extreme exertion, I'm not sure what you mean by "lazy". Current general recommendations are 150 minutes a week, or <30 minutes a day [4], which definitely falls underneath moderate exercise. I don't think "no one" is ignoring these recommendations (or, at least, they agree with them-- few people follow them :^)). As for your grandpa's longevity-- your genetics is just a risk modifier, not a nullifier. Wearing a seatbelt doesn't prevent your death, it just reduces your odds of it during a car crash. So, at least, I hope you still wear your seatbelt, because the time cost of this activity is so miniscule compared to the time reward. As I like to say, "Run for your life! At a comfortable pace, and not too far" [5] EDIT: I should add-- I ran competitively a few years ago. My "animal" is no longer as fierce, and thus am a bit more moderate these days. But there is a large emotional aspect and validation to pushing yourself that goes beyond physical health. As with any sport-- running, swimming, football, basketball-- the physical toll is worth it. This, though, is what I would classify under Robin's description of a "tired animal" and is likely what Bolt, MJ, etc. feels. When she says she "wishes she treated her animal better", I don't think she means this, at least when it comes to exercise. [1] https://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Abstract/9000/Endurance_and_Sprint_Training_Improve_Glycemia_and.96137.aspx https://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Abstract/9000/Endurance_a... [2] https://themedicalroundtable.com/article/role-physical-fitness-cardiovascular-disease-prevention https://themedicalroundtable.com/article/role-physical-fitne... [3] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21200345/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21200345/ [4] https://www.cdc.gov/physicalactivity/basics/adults/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/physicalactivity/basics/adults/index.htm [5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6U728AZnV0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6U728AZnV0
- cocothem 5y ago
  thanks for the tedx talk, good one
- pferde 5y ago
  > Specific to cardiovascular disease, repeat marathon runners [3] have higher calcium buildup than those who do not run in marathons The linked study did not say anything about runners versus non-runners, so I would be careful in making such statement. From the study: "We studied 100 male presumably healthy runners, aged 50-75 yr, who completed at least five marathons during the preceding 3 yr." The study involved older marathon runners and found artery calcium plaque in some of them. It however did not include a comparable group of non-runners. It is entirely likely that the calcium plaque buildup happens in higher age regardless of lifestyle. Or perhaps frequent marathon runners have less of it than non-runners. Or more of it. The point is that this study does not say what you claim it says.
nradov 5y ago
The actual studies show there is a J-shaped curve relationship between endurance sports training and long term health. Most people in affluent societies are way over on the left side of the curve and could improve long term functioning through more exercise. The risks for chronic problems like heart scarring, arterial calcification, and musculoskeletal injuries only start to increase once you get over about 20 hours per week. Elderly people frequently die because they get weak, then they fall and end up bedridden. At that point they don't last very long.
- im3w1l 5y ago
  Why don't they last long after becoming bedridden?
  - ketzo 5y ago
    Your body really isn't meant to stay horizontal 23+ hours/day, and that's what many elderly people are reduced to after a bad fall. Bed sores develop very quickly, and an elderly immune system often simply isn't equipped to fight them. Gangrene and amputations are extremely common in end-of-life care.
    - Jiocus 5y ago
      For clarity, this sets in as the old body may still be slowly or practically unable to recover from the first event, the fall (e.g. a broken bone).
  - algorias 5y ago
    Your circulatory system is actively pumped by the heart, but also passively pumped by everyday muscle movements. Lack of movement decreases oxygenation and clearance of metabolic byproducts.
hombre_fatal 5y ago
Be wary of being desperate to justify your lifestyle. For example, let’s see some of these studies that celebrate the sedentary lifestyle impact on health.
- podgaj 5y ago
  I didn’t say I advocated for A sedimentary lifestyle. There’s a big difference between being active and intense exercise. And it’s not just quantity of life, but quality of life. I know a bunch of long distance runners and I can’t tell you how many of them had knee surgery and/or, back problems.

by podgaj 5y ago

randomopining 5y ago

6 miles isn’t that long lol. Exercise is good. Otherwise you get weak and shrivel up.

podgaj 5y ago
My grandfather lived in 98 never exercised in his life. I know it’s an anecdote, but it’s still data.
- kaesar14 5y ago
  I’ll find you a couple tens of millions of people who didnt exercise who died well before 98
- ptero 5y ago
  My grandfather lived into his 90s and as far as I know never "exercised". But during a lot of his life he split firewood and worked 8-hour shifts at a factory (before walking home for an hour or so) and did a lot of other things that would be much more vigorous than regular exercise. A different anecdote.
- monsieurbanana 5y ago
  > I know it’s an anecdote, but it’s still data That's useful if it's about a subject where there's no studies. But this is whether exercise improves quality of life. There's no shortage of studies about it. Implying that a single anecdote is still data is the bad kind of technically true. I would link to one of those studies, but there's too many of them and I admit I don't know what to choose. https://scholar.google.com.sg/scholar?q=physical+activity+quality+of+life+studies&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart https://scholar.google.com.sg/scholar?q=physical+activity+qu... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0167494310002542 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01674... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0091743507003027 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00917...
- randomopining 5y ago
  It's quality of life too. For pretty much every human, finding a way to get outside and breath hard is going to feel good. You're gonna sleep better etc. Yeah we all know people who drink 3 cokes a day and aren't fat etc... but I know if I drink a lot of beers or cokes or whatever I feel terrible. When I go for hill sprints I feel amazing after. It's clearly a good habit in a healthy life.
- qwertox 5y ago
  I never exercised for 20 years. My back did hurt so much that I had to roll out of bed every morning. I started exercising two years ago and now this is no longer an issue. He must have had some kind of exercise, even if it was labeled as "chores" or "job".
fossuser 5y ago
There’s a weird thing in the Midwest where I grew up where people talk about exercise as if it’s unhealthy (and basically nobody exercises). Then you come to the Bay Area and see just how much people can really exercise. Older people exercising here seem way healthier than where I grew up. Still when I go home if I say I run 3mi a day people say things like, “that’s bad for your knees” etc. or look at you like you’re crazy. In the Bay Area it’s like I don’t work out at all by comparison.
- kstrauser 5y ago
  That was my experience, too. I ran one leg of the Big Sur marathon relay. My local friends were like “next year you’ll do a half!” My childhood friends were like “so you never, ever have to do that again, right?”

Buttons840 5y ago

I'm not aware of any such studies, can you recommend one to start with?

ljhsiung 5y ago

Numerous studies show that exercise provides U-shaped benefits to health [1], [2]. Specific to cardiovascular disease, repeat marathon runners [3] have higher calcium buildup than those who do not run in marathons, which as Robin might say, is one of those cases where the animal is driven too hard. While you have a point for extreme exertion, I'm not sure what you mean by "lazy". Current general recommendations are 150 minutes a week, or <30 minutes a day [4], which definitely falls underneath moderate exercise. I don't think "no one" is ignoring these recommendations (or, at least, they agree with them-- few people follow them :^)). As for your grandpa's longevity-- your genetics is just a risk modifier, not a nullifier. Wearing a seatbelt doesn't prevent your death, it just reduces your odds of it during a car crash. So, at least, I hope you still wear your seatbelt, because the time cost of this activity is so miniscule compared to the time reward. As I like to say, "Run for your life! At a comfortable pace, and not too far" [5] EDIT: I should add-- I ran competitively a few years ago. My "animal" is no longer as fierce, and thus am a bit more moderate these days. But there is a large emotional aspect and validation to pushing yourself that goes beyond physical health. As with any sport-- running, swimming, football, basketball-- the physical toll is worth it. This, though, is what I would classify under Robin's description of a "tired animal" and is likely what Bolt, MJ, etc. feels. When she says she "wishes she treated her animal better", I don't think she means this, at least when it comes to exercise. [1] https://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Abstract/9000/Endurance_and_Sprint_Training_Improve_Glycemia_and.96137.aspx https://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Abstract/9000/Endurance_a... [2] https://themedicalroundtable.com/article/role-physical-fitness-cardiovascular-disease-prevention https://themedicalroundtable.com/article/role-physical-fitne... [3] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21200345/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21200345/ [4] https://www.cdc.gov/physicalactivity/basics/adults/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/physicalactivity/basics/adults/index.htm [5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6U728AZnV0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6U728AZnV0

cocothem 5y ago
thanks for the tedx talk, good one
pferde 5y ago
> Specific to cardiovascular disease, repeat marathon runners [3] have higher calcium buildup than those who do not run in marathons The linked study did not say anything about runners versus non-runners, so I would be careful in making such statement. From the study: "We studied 100 male presumably healthy runners, aged 50-75 yr, who completed at least five marathons during the preceding 3 yr." The study involved older marathon runners and found artery calcium plaque in some of them. It however did not include a comparable group of non-runners. It is entirely likely that the calcium plaque buildup happens in higher age regardless of lifestyle. Or perhaps frequent marathon runners have less of it than non-runners. Or more of it. The point is that this study does not say what you claim it says.

nradov 5y ago

The actual studies show there is a J-shaped curve relationship between endurance sports training and long term health. Most people in affluent societies are way over on the left side of the curve and could improve long term functioning through more exercise. The risks for chronic problems like heart scarring, arterial calcification, and musculoskeletal injuries only start to increase once you get over about 20 hours per week. Elderly people frequently die because they get weak, then they fall and end up bedridden. At that point they don't last very long.

im3w1l 5y ago
Why don't they last long after becoming bedridden?
- ketzo 5y ago
  Your body really isn't meant to stay horizontal 23+ hours/day, and that's what many elderly people are reduced to after a bad fall. Bed sores develop very quickly, and an elderly immune system often simply isn't equipped to fight them. Gangrene and amputations are extremely common in end-of-life care.
  - Jiocus 5y ago
    For clarity, this sets in as the old body may still be slowly or practically unable to recover from the first event, the fall (e.g. a broken bone).
- algorias 5y ago
  Your circulatory system is actively pumped by the heart, but also passively pumped by everyday muscle movements. Lack of movement decreases oxygenation and clearance of metabolic byproducts.

hombre_fatal 5y ago

Be wary of being desperate to justify your lifestyle. For example, let’s see some of these studies that celebrate the sedentary lifestyle impact on health.

podgaj 5y ago
I didn’t say I advocated for A sedimentary lifestyle. There’s a big difference between being active and intense exercise. And it’s not just quantity of life, but quality of life. I know a bunch of long distance runners and I can’t tell you how many of them had knee surgery and/or, back problems.