6 ms·

The thing is, if you use a web browser instead of a javascript engine designed for delivering DRM media (ie, chrome, modern FF), you can open as many tabs as yo

The thing is, if you use a web browser instead of a javascript engine designed for delivering DRM media (ie, chrome, modern FF), you can open as many tabs as you want without consequence. The problem is not tabs. The problem is multi-process and treating the browser like an operating system. I regularly operate with 1000+ tabs on less than 3 GB of ram. This works because I disable javascript and look at web sites instead of run applications. I have extensions to full text search and switch between them and each tab stores it's path on the web, unlike bookmarks. And I've been saving my sessions every month since Opera 5 introduced tabs (I use a FF fork now). That covers 2003-2021. Tabs are great. Modern browsers are bad.

SkyMarshal 6y ago
What do you mean by “each tab stores it's path on the web”?
- pseudalopex 6y ago
  The back and forward buttons work.
Guest42 6y ago
Are the 1000+ tabs related? Is this for research (or workflow, or just preferred routine...)?
- c22 6y ago
  I'm not the OP, but I maintain many windows--one for each line of inquiry/project and a few special windows for e.g. webmail. Each of these windows may contain 1-20 tabs and I regularly push around 500 open tabs. Like the OP, I make this possible by default disabling javascript.
  - artificial 6y ago
    The Great Suspender (fork) along with saving sessions is essential for high quantities. Browsers save tab context, you can go forward and backward unlike bookmarks. Super cool for sleuthing sessions.
1MachineElf 6y ago
Can you share more about the tools you use and their configuration? I would like to experience browsing the web in this manner.
ssivark 6y ago
Please elaborate on your workflow, and the tools you use. I know many people will be interested!
- superkuh 6y ago
  The most important bits are using a single process Firefox fork (ex: Palemoon, Seamonkey, etc) and disabling javascript by default with NoScript set in temp whitelist only mode. Second is behavior. All the NoScript in the world isn't going to save your browser if you attempt to run applications like Facebook or Twitter in it. "Suspend Tab" for not loading inactive tabs is also important. I typically run about 50/50 in my active sessions in terms of active vs suspended tabs. "Search Tabs" and "Tab Mix Plus" are also very helpful. "Decentraleyes" also helps (mostly latency and privacy) by providing most not-bleeding-edge JS libs, fonts, etc locally only once. Generally the first 1/3 of my tabs are long term tab groups I keep going back to for reference. These are almost all suspended most of the time they rarely change over the course of a single year. The second third is medium term tabs from projects I worked on but moved on from. I go through every month or two and bookmark projects I won't continue while closing the tabs. The last third is active tabs and changes day to day and week to week. I generally know the positions and relative groupings of all the tabs in the first 2/3 by heart. http://erewhon.superkuh.com/number-of-tabs-vs-date-2017.png http://erewhon.superkuh.com/number-of-tabs-vs-date-2017.png http://erewhon.superkuh.com/whathappenedin2016accordingtotabs.png http://erewhon.superkuh.com/whathappenedin2016accordingtotab...
  - nieve 6y ago
    I'm not sure a single-process fork is necessary, I'm at 2.2GB with 5273 tabs on Firefox 88.0.1. I run NoScript in default deny mode as well and use uBlock Origin & uMatrix, but I don't use any suspender addons.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
      Enlighten me, for I don't understand why using uBlock Origin and uMatrix together with NoScript is necessary? Is this just habit, or has NoScript some features which the u*-stuff combo can't provide? Featurewise, UI-wise?
mlloyd 6y ago
Hold on, you can't just leave this comment and not leave the details with it. How do we get on this higher plane of existence?
- marcosdumay 6y ago
  You mean how to disable javascript?
turtletontine 6y ago
Wishing OP the best, and maybe your workflow is good for you, but 1000+ tabs is insane to me. I don't understand what you could possibly need 1000 tabs for. I'm certainly guilty of keeping too many tabs open I'll never read, and about once a month I declare "tab bankrupty" and close most of them. When I'm doing research, I save papers in Zotero instead of just keeping a tab open. That way I can organize them how I wanted and keep notes associated with them.
- em-bee 6y ago
  that's the difference. closing all tabs once a month prevents tabs from accumulating. either that or having the discipline to close tabs as soon as i know i that i don't need them. when i search for something, i easily open more than a dozen tabs at once. if i do that multiple times a day, then i get into the hundreds quickly. each collection of tabs is an issue i work on. at some point i have to decide if i want to keep those tabs or if i want to restart the search when i get back to that issue.
ksec 6y ago
The whole Web Page with sprinkles of tiny interaction needs a ground up rethink preferably without JS. Google has been trying to built the Web into Web Apps since 2008. I am working down on my Tabs, finally got to 53 right now from 500+ last week.
_Algernon_ 6y ago
I'm at the reverse of the spectrum. I installed an extension to limit the number of tabs I can have open to 12. I have yet to encounter a situation where I need more than that. At that point I either need to close unneeded tabs, offload them to bookmarks / Zotero. Keeps a certain level of focus, and prevents attempts at multitasking and keeps tab titles and icons visible in the tab bar.
reversengineer 6y ago
How on earth do you manage 1000+ tabs? With some kind of add-on software, no doubt, but I would like to know your workflow.
- Zancarius 6y ago
  Not the OP but for general browsing, I use them as a sort of append-only log. History can be good for trying to find something fairly recently, but my brain works in a manner where if I can remember the approximate timeline of something, I can usually find it if it was within the last 2-3 months just by scrolling through tabs. After that I usually bookmark them all and nuke them. Realistically, part of the idea is that if there's something of vague interest, I middle-click figuring I might revisit it at some point in the future. Usually this isn't the case, but as I know it'll wind up in my bookmarks at some point, there's still that possibility. Sometimes it even happens! I do something similar to one of the siblings' replies with work though. One window per project/task with all associated tabs (e.g. documentation). Usually these don't get abused as much.
gwmnxnp_516a 6y ago
Modern browsers uses multi-process, a process for each tab due to security and reliability reasons. If a single tab crashes, the all other tabs will not be crashed. In addition, unlike threads, processes are isolated from each other since they do not share the same address space, which is another line of defense. This multi-process approach could not be needed if an entire web browser, such as Firefox, was written in a memory safe language like Rust.
- compressedgas 6y ago
  Even with Rust the browser would still need multiple processes because Rust provides no way to catch a panic. The way to handle panics in Rust is to run the code in its own process and then to handle the failure of that process.
  - steveklabnik 6y ago
    We do provide a way to catch a panic https://doc.rust-lang.org/stable/std/panic/fn.catch_unwind.html https://doc.rust-lang.org/stable/std/panic/fn.catch_unwind.h... It's not considered generally idiomatic as an error handling strategy, but it does exist if it's needed.
ridiculous_leke 6y ago
The max I have got is around 200 tabs and even that was a considerable stress on my brain. I can only wonder how you are doing with that many tabs. Now my tabs are < 10, thanks to scheduling and prioritizing.
- eitland 6y ago
  > The max I have got is around 200 tabs and even that was a considerable stress on my brain. Here's the trick I think: I and many others use tabs to offload the brain. For those who have read "Getting Things Done" I think this is similar. We don't think about them, just look them up if and when we need them. Kind of the same way as a journal or notebook: it doesn't stress me that I have hundreds of pages I might never get back to; it eases my mind that if I need to get back it is still there. I use Tree Style Tabs and a couple of extensions on top of that so sometimes I'll copy a subtree as a nested markdown list and store it in Joplin, then close it. But no: 600 tabs like I've had more than once was totally feasible years ago and should be no match for a moderns system. That said as long as people don't try to force me to change the way I work they are free to do it their way.
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  He is using a fork of old FF which is able to run most of the good extensions which won't work with current FF. And have no equivalent there. Something like Tabmix+ comes to mind, and/or vertical tabs, several forks of Scratchbook+ also. Maybe combined with a theme like Witehart with FF you could have a very relaxed browsing experience. That is all gone, FF has been dumbed down, and Chrome(ium) even more so.
dTal 6y ago
> I disable javascript and look at web sites instead of run applications The HN equivalent of "I don't even own a TV".
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  Guess what? My setup is mostly the same with exceptions for specific sites and I don't even own a TV(since 1996). edit: Though not so much tabs, just the NO-JS default...

SkyMarshal 6y ago

What do you mean by “each tab stores it's path on the web”?

pseudalopex 6y ago
The back and forward buttons work.

Guest42 6y ago

Are the 1000+ tabs related? Is this for research (or workflow, or just preferred routine...)?

c22 6y ago
I'm not the OP, but I maintain many windows--one for each line of inquiry/project and a few special windows for e.g. webmail. Each of these windows may contain 1-20 tabs and I regularly push around 500 open tabs. Like the OP, I make this possible by default disabling javascript.
- artificial 6y ago
  The Great Suspender (fork) along with saving sessions is essential for high quantities. Browsers save tab context, you can go forward and backward unlike bookmarks. Super cool for sleuthing sessions.

1MachineElf 6y ago

Can you share more about the tools you use and their configuration? I would like to experience browsing the web in this manner.

ssivark 6y ago

Please elaborate on your workflow, and the tools you use. I know many people will be interested!

superkuh 6y ago
The most important bits are using a single process Firefox fork (ex: Palemoon, Seamonkey, etc) and disabling javascript by default with NoScript set in temp whitelist only mode. Second is behavior. All the NoScript in the world isn't going to save your browser if you attempt to run applications like Facebook or Twitter in it. "Suspend Tab" for not loading inactive tabs is also important. I typically run about 50/50 in my active sessions in terms of active vs suspended tabs. "Search Tabs" and "Tab Mix Plus" are also very helpful. "Decentraleyes" also helps (mostly latency and privacy) by providing most not-bleeding-edge JS libs, fonts, etc locally only once. Generally the first 1/3 of my tabs are long term tab groups I keep going back to for reference. These are almost all suspended most of the time they rarely change over the course of a single year. The second third is medium term tabs from projects I worked on but moved on from. I go through every month or two and bookmark projects I won't continue while closing the tabs. The last third is active tabs and changes day to day and week to week. I generally know the positions and relative groupings of all the tabs in the first 2/3 by heart. http://erewhon.superkuh.com/number-of-tabs-vs-date-2017.png http://erewhon.superkuh.com/number-of-tabs-vs-date-2017.png http://erewhon.superkuh.com/whathappenedin2016accordingtotabs.png http://erewhon.superkuh.com/whathappenedin2016accordingtotab...
- nieve 6y ago
  I'm not sure a single-process fork is necessary, I'm at 2.2GB with 5273 tabs on Firefox 88.0.1. I run NoScript in default deny mode as well and use uBlock Origin & uMatrix, but I don't use any suspender addons.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    Enlighten me, for I don't understand why using uBlock Origin and uMatrix together with NoScript is necessary? Is this just habit, or has NoScript some features which the u*-stuff combo can't provide? Featurewise, UI-wise?

mlloyd 6y ago

Hold on, you can't just leave this comment and not leave the details with it. How do we get on this higher plane of existence?

marcosdumay 6y ago
You mean how to disable javascript?

turtletontine 6y ago

Wishing OP the best, and maybe your workflow is good for you, but 1000+ tabs is insane to me. I don't understand what you could possibly need 1000 tabs for. I'm certainly guilty of keeping too many tabs open I'll never read, and about once a month I declare "tab bankrupty" and close most of them. When I'm doing research, I save papers in Zotero instead of just keeping a tab open. That way I can organize them how I wanted and keep notes associated with them.

em-bee 6y ago
that's the difference. closing all tabs once a month prevents tabs from accumulating. either that or having the discipline to close tabs as soon as i know i that i don't need them. when i search for something, i easily open more than a dozen tabs at once. if i do that multiple times a day, then i get into the hundreds quickly. each collection of tabs is an issue i work on. at some point i have to decide if i want to keep those tabs or if i want to restart the search when i get back to that issue.

ksec 6y ago

The whole Web Page with sprinkles of tiny interaction needs a ground up rethink preferably without JS. Google has been trying to built the Web into Web Apps since 2008. I am working down on my Tabs, finally got to 53 right now from 500+ last week.

_Algernon_ 6y ago

I'm at the reverse of the spectrum. I installed an extension to limit the number of tabs I can have open to 12. I have yet to encounter a situation where I need more than that. At that point I either need to close unneeded tabs, offload them to bookmarks / Zotero. Keeps a certain level of focus, and prevents attempts at multitasking and keeps tab titles and icons visible in the tab bar.

reversengineer 6y ago

How on earth do you manage 1000+ tabs? With some kind of add-on software, no doubt, but I would like to know your workflow.

Zancarius 6y ago
Not the OP but for general browsing, I use them as a sort of append-only log. History can be good for trying to find something fairly recently, but my brain works in a manner where if I can remember the approximate timeline of something, I can usually find it if it was within the last 2-3 months just by scrolling through tabs. After that I usually bookmark them all and nuke them. Realistically, part of the idea is that if there's something of vague interest, I middle-click figuring I might revisit it at some point in the future. Usually this isn't the case, but as I know it'll wind up in my bookmarks at some point, there's still that possibility. Sometimes it even happens! I do something similar to one of the siblings' replies with work though. One window per project/task with all associated tabs (e.g. documentation). Usually these don't get abused as much.

gwmnxnp_516a 6y ago

Modern browsers uses multi-process, a process for each tab due to security and reliability reasons. If a single tab crashes, the all other tabs will not be crashed. In addition, unlike threads, processes are isolated from each other since they do not share the same address space, which is another line of defense. This multi-process approach could not be needed if an entire web browser, such as Firefox, was written in a memory safe language like Rust.

compressedgas 6y ago
Even with Rust the browser would still need multiple processes because Rust provides no way to catch a panic. The way to handle panics in Rust is to run the code in its own process and then to handle the failure of that process.
- steveklabnik 6y ago
  We do provide a way to catch a panic https://doc.rust-lang.org/stable/std/panic/fn.catch_unwind.html https://doc.rust-lang.org/stable/std/panic/fn.catch_unwind.h... It's not considered generally idiomatic as an error handling strategy, but it does exist if it's needed.

ridiculous_leke 6y ago

The max I have got is around 200 tabs and even that was a considerable stress on my brain. I can only wonder how you are doing with that many tabs. Now my tabs are < 10, thanks to scheduling and prioritizing.

eitland 6y ago
> The max I have got is around 200 tabs and even that was a considerable stress on my brain. Here's the trick I think: I and many others use tabs to offload the brain. For those who have read "Getting Things Done" I think this is similar. We don't think about them, just look them up if and when we need them. Kind of the same way as a journal or notebook: it doesn't stress me that I have hundreds of pages I might never get back to; it eases my mind that if I need to get back it is still there. I use Tree Style Tabs and a couple of extensions on top of that so sometimes I'll copy a subtree as a nested markdown list and store it in Joplin, then close it. But no: 600 tabs like I've had more than once was totally feasible years ago and should be no match for a moderns system. That said as long as people don't try to force me to change the way I work they are free to do it their way.
LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
He is using a fork of old FF which is able to run most of the good extensions which won't work with current FF. And have no equivalent there. Something like Tabmix+ comes to mind, and/or vertical tabs, several forks of Scratchbook+ also. Maybe combined with a theme like Witehart with FF you could have a very relaxed browsing experience. That is all gone, FF has been dumbed down, and Chrome(ium) even more so.

dTal 6y ago

> I disable javascript and look at web sites instead of run applications The HN equivalent of "I don't even own a TV".

LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
Guess what? My setup is mostly the same with exceptions for specific sites and I don't even own a TV(since 1996). edit: Though not so much tabs, just the NO-JS default...