5 ms·

Sometimes you do just need bodies to move dirt or spread mulch or stuff envelopes or whatever. Obviously the phenomena you describe is real, but please don't wr

by _qwfv 5y ago

Sometimes you do just need bodies to move dirt or spread mulch or stuff envelopes or whatever. Obviously the phenomena you describe is real, but please don't write off volunteering as a whole.

varajelle 5y ago
Or you could do your normal work for 100$/hours, then donate that to pay two people at 50$/hours to do it. By spending the same amount of time, you helped twice as much.
- dash2 5y ago
  The question is then, why do organisations ask for volunteers? They could just appeal for money and pay for people to e.g. rattle tins. Maybe having volunteers signals something to the public, e.g. that the charity is doing good work.
  - techsupporter 5y ago
    Having been part of an org that asked for volunteers, we did it for two reasons: First, to try to have a pool of repeat volunteers who we could rely on. In any other context, we would call these people "employees" but we ran on such a shoestring we couldn't pay everyone for all of their labor. Sucks, but such is the nature of the non-profit world outside of the glossy donor magazines. Most of these generous souls were recruited from friends and family or were people who'd received services from us in the past. Second, is for advertising and to drum up support. People are far more likely to donate to a group they've volunteered with, even once, in the past as they feel a sense of ownership over the organization's outcome. Those "bring a bunch of six-figure salary folks to a group to pack boxes for a few hours?" They tended to result in some of the best donations we received for the whole year.
    - mjevans 5y ago
      Free Staff? Is there another term for this that's proper and also doesn't imply compensation?
      - stevehb 5y ago
        Is the word you're looking for "volunteer"?
        Dylan16807 5y ago
        "volunteer staff" is probably close. "volunteer" by itself is not, because it implies nothing about it being long-term. Neither one really gets the connotation right.
        lostcolony 5y ago
        Repeat volunteer. Long term volunteer.
    - URSpider94 5y ago
      This is actually a double-edged sword, at least in the USA. You can’t have volunteers and employees do the same work, even at a charity. If you do, you fall afoul of federal wage laws. So you aren’t allowed, for example, to have a mixture of paid and volunteer workers acting as docents at a museum to help with staffing challenges, or have a mix of volunteer and paid workers work the register.
      - techsupporter 5y ago
        Sorry, I was unclear; I meant we would love to hire all of these amazing people who come back to volunteer week after week, but we can't afford it so we rely on donated labor. The (very small number of) paid staff jobs and volunteer roles definitely don't overlap. First because our lawyer agrees with you, and second because we feel like that would be extremely rude to have one person be paid while another person is doing the labor for free. If one person is getting paid to do the role, everybody doing that role should be getting paid. We try to do right by our volunteers. For example, when we have a new paid opening, we tell our volunteers about it first. And sometimes someone donates some money with a note of "do something nice for the volunteers, if you can," so we'll throw a party for our amazing volunteers or buy a nicer lunch (everybody gets fed but sometimes it's boxed sandwiches with chips and other days it's a full taco spread from a local restaurant)..
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    I'd ask in response if you've ever seen an organization asking for volunteers that isn't also asking for money. If you can volunteer in addition to sending money, depending on the org they will have some shitwork to do that is unpleasant/monotonous (would cost money to get someone to do) and low-skilled (you probably won't screw it up, and they don't have to waste skilled staff on it - and the skilled staff hate doing it even more than you will.)
- _qwfv 5y ago
  Sometimes there's value in getting your hands dirty, in connecting with your local community, in having a sense of satisfaction from personally doing a good thing, in seeing how those less fortunate are struggling. Not every problem is a pure efficiency maximization problem. There are intangibles to consider as well.
- KineticLensman 5y ago
  > Or you could do your normal work for 100$/hours, then donate that to pay two people at 50$/hours to do it. By spending the same amount of time, you helped twice as much. This view doesn't take account of the massive range of skills required to deliver actual services (conservation, relief, etc), which would be cripplingly expensive to deliver through paid / contracted staff. Concrete example: I've been volunteering at a raptor conservancy trust in the UK for two years. The advantages of volunteers is that the Trust gets a pool of enthusiastic people who can be tasked on a wide range of tasks on a very flexible basis. Actual volunteer tasks (I have done about half of these) include * engagement with the public (crowd control, explaining what is going on, etc) * animal husbandry (cleaning, water bowls, etc) * construction (e.g. new aviary builds) * infrastructure maintenance and repair (aviaries, fences, benches, signage, etc) * equipment maintenance and repair (lawn mowers, power tools, etc) * grounds work (gardening, weed control, etc) * photo-library management / social media editing * IT support * conservation surveys (e.g. species surveys / transects) * nest box deployment And many more. The volunteers' free time allows the Trust's paid permanent staff to concentrate on their core competencies: looking after birds of prey and supporting global breeding projects and anti-poacher activities. The Trust is often able to match volunteer duties to the individual volunteers who enjoy them most / have a demonstrated aptitude - e.g. a retired guy who enjoys pottering with machines one day a week can maintain a small fleet of lawn mowers, strimmers, ATVs, pressure washers, etc, without the Trust incurring a regular maintenance contract. People with DIY carpentry skills can put up signs, make nest boxes, fix seats, etc. Volunteer support has also been essential during the pandemic, when the Trust's revenue was slashed as a result of lockdowns.
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    Your consistent volunteering over multiple years is great and helpful. What doesn’t have anywhere near the same impact for the charity is a group of randos showing up for an afternoon in matching company shirts after a morning scavenger hunt, play-act volunteering for a few hours, then disappearing to the company-sponsored drinks and dinner event never to be heard from again.
    - KineticLensman 5y ago
- dannyw 5y ago
  My hourly rate is over one thousand dollars an hour, and I still volunteer because it's fulfilling to get your hands dirty. Sorry that I'm selfish.
  - bluGill 5y ago
    If you regularly volunteer for the same task then you are helpful. A one day and never seen again probably wasn't helpful.
    - Pfhreak 5y ago
      I've volunteered one offs before. A local urban farm needed to plant dozens of trees. They spent 15 minutes teaching them turned loose the group. We got them planted in like an hour. Then we moved onto weeding and litter cleanup.
    - dannyw 5y ago
      Yes, I volunteer for something that requires a week of training. I volunteer a day every month or so.
  - EliRivers 5y ago
    Well, at least you recognise that you're doing it for yourself; self-awareness is the first step. Maybe you could donate money too, to make up for it.
- bcrosby95 5y ago
  I'd be willing to bet most people on this site are paid salary, not hourly.
  - jgwil2 5y ago
    You can still divide your salary by how many hours you work in an average year.
    - bcrosby95 5y ago
      Sure. But I can't choose to work another hour instead of volunteering, make $60, and donate it. Salary doesn't work that way, and which is why these comparisons never make any sense to me. In fact, if I decide to work another hour, I would be making less per hour.
- johnnyanmac 5y ago
  most of America isn't making $100/hour. I don't make $100/hour. Heck, 2 years ago, I wasn't even making $50/hour. I get your point, but for a good bulk of people, their time is in fact worth less than their total individual income for that day.

by _qwfv 5y ago

Sometimes you do just need bodies to move dirt or spread mulch or stuff envelopes or whatever. Obviously the phenomena you describe is real, but please don't write off volunteering as a whole.

varajelle 5y ago

Or you could do your normal work for 100$/hours, then donate that to pay two people at 50$/hours to do it. By spending the same amount of time, you helped twice as much.

dash2 5y ago
The question is then, why do organisations ask for volunteers? They could just appeal for money and pay for people to e.g. rattle tins. Maybe having volunteers signals something to the public, e.g. that the charity is doing good work.
- techsupporter 5y ago
  Having been part of an org that asked for volunteers, we did it for two reasons: First, to try to have a pool of repeat volunteers who we could rely on. In any other context, we would call these people "employees" but we ran on such a shoestring we couldn't pay everyone for all of their labor. Sucks, but such is the nature of the non-profit world outside of the glossy donor magazines. Most of these generous souls were recruited from friends and family or were people who'd received services from us in the past. Second, is for advertising and to drum up support. People are far more likely to donate to a group they've volunteered with, even once, in the past as they feel a sense of ownership over the organization's outcome. Those "bring a bunch of six-figure salary folks to a group to pack boxes for a few hours?" They tended to result in some of the best donations we received for the whole year.
  - mjevans 5y ago
    Free Staff? Is there another term for this that's proper and also doesn't imply compensation?
    - stevehb 5y ago
      Is the word you're looking for "volunteer"?
      - Dylan16807 5y ago
        "volunteer staff" is probably close. "volunteer" by itself is not, because it implies nothing about it being long-term. Neither one really gets the connotation right.
        lostcolony 5y ago
        Repeat volunteer. Long term volunteer.
  - URSpider94 5y ago
    This is actually a double-edged sword, at least in the USA. You can’t have volunteers and employees do the same work, even at a charity. If you do, you fall afoul of federal wage laws. So you aren’t allowed, for example, to have a mixture of paid and volunteer workers acting as docents at a museum to help with staffing challenges, or have a mix of volunteer and paid workers work the register.
    - techsupporter 5y ago
      Sorry, I was unclear; I meant we would love to hire all of these amazing people who come back to volunteer week after week, but we can't afford it so we rely on donated labor. The (very small number of) paid staff jobs and volunteer roles definitely don't overlap. First because our lawyer agrees with you, and second because we feel like that would be extremely rude to have one person be paid while another person is doing the labor for free. If one person is getting paid to do the role, everybody doing that role should be getting paid. We try to do right by our volunteers. For example, when we have a new paid opening, we tell our volunteers about it first. And sometimes someone donates some money with a note of "do something nice for the volunteers, if you can," so we'll throw a party for our amazing volunteers or buy a nicer lunch (everybody gets fed but sometimes it's boxed sandwiches with chips and other days it's a full taco spread from a local restaurant)..
- pessimizer 5y ago
  I'd ask in response if you've ever seen an organization asking for volunteers that isn't also asking for money. If you can volunteer in addition to sending money, depending on the org they will have some shitwork to do that is unpleasant/monotonous (would cost money to get someone to do) and low-skilled (you probably won't screw it up, and they don't have to waste skilled staff on it - and the skilled staff hate doing it even more than you will.)
_qwfv 5y ago
Sometimes there's value in getting your hands dirty, in connecting with your local community, in having a sense of satisfaction from personally doing a good thing, in seeing how those less fortunate are struggling. Not every problem is a pure efficiency maximization problem. There are intangibles to consider as well.
KineticLensman 5y ago
> Or you could do your normal work for 100$/hours, then donate that to pay two people at 50$/hours to do it. By spending the same amount of time, you helped twice as much. This view doesn't take account of the massive range of skills required to deliver actual services (conservation, relief, etc), which would be cripplingly expensive to deliver through paid / contracted staff. Concrete example: I've been volunteering at a raptor conservancy trust in the UK for two years. The advantages of volunteers is that the Trust gets a pool of enthusiastic people who can be tasked on a wide range of tasks on a very flexible basis. Actual volunteer tasks (I have done about half of these) include * engagement with the public (crowd control, explaining what is going on, etc) * animal husbandry (cleaning, water bowls, etc) * construction (e.g. new aviary builds) * infrastructure maintenance and repair (aviaries, fences, benches, signage, etc) * equipment maintenance and repair (lawn mowers, power tools, etc) * grounds work (gardening, weed control, etc) * photo-library management / social media editing * IT support * conservation surveys (e.g. species surveys / transects) * nest box deployment And many more. The volunteers' free time allows the Trust's paid permanent staff to concentrate on their core competencies: looking after birds of prey and supporting global breeding projects and anti-poacher activities. The Trust is often able to match volunteer duties to the individual volunteers who enjoy them most / have a demonstrated aptitude - e.g. a retired guy who enjoys pottering with machines one day a week can maintain a small fleet of lawn mowers, strimmers, ATVs, pressure washers, etc, without the Trust incurring a regular maintenance contract. People with DIY carpentry skills can put up signs, make nest boxes, fix seats, etc. Volunteer support has also been essential during the pandemic, when the Trust's revenue was slashed as a result of lockdowns.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  Your consistent volunteering over multiple years is great and helpful. What doesn’t have anywhere near the same impact for the charity is a group of randos showing up for an afternoon in matching company shirts after a morning scavenger hunt, play-act volunteering for a few hours, then disappearing to the company-sponsored drinks and dinner event never to be heard from again.
  - KineticLensman 5y ago
dannyw 5y ago
My hourly rate is over one thousand dollars an hour, and I still volunteer because it's fulfilling to get your hands dirty. Sorry that I'm selfish.
- bluGill 5y ago
  If you regularly volunteer for the same task then you are helpful. A one day and never seen again probably wasn't helpful.
  - Pfhreak 5y ago
    I've volunteered one offs before. A local urban farm needed to plant dozens of trees. They spent 15 minutes teaching them turned loose the group. We got them planted in like an hour. Then we moved onto weeding and litter cleanup.
  - dannyw 5y ago
    Yes, I volunteer for something that requires a week of training. I volunteer a day every month or so.
- EliRivers 5y ago
  Well, at least you recognise that you're doing it for yourself; self-awareness is the first step. Maybe you could donate money too, to make up for it.
bcrosby95 5y ago
I'd be willing to bet most people on this site are paid salary, not hourly.
- jgwil2 5y ago
  You can still divide your salary by how many hours you work in an average year.
  - bcrosby95 5y ago
    Sure. But I can't choose to work another hour instead of volunteering, make $60, and donate it. Salary doesn't work that way, and which is why these comparisons never make any sense to me. In fact, if I decide to work another hour, I would be making less per hour.
johnnyanmac 5y ago
most of America isn't making $100/hour. I don't make $100/hour. Heck, 2 years ago, I wasn't even making $50/hour. I get your point, but for a good bulk of people, their time is in fact worth less than their total individual income for that day.