4 ms·

So much FUD and derailment in that GitHub pull request, wow. Hundreds of comments talking about names for forks and alternative software. The original PR descr

by meibo 5y ago

So much FUD and derailment in that GitHub pull request, wow. Hundreds of comments talking about names for forks and alternative software. The original PR description absolutely was not explicit enough, and they probably shouldn't have went with a third party data processor in the first place, but the way they are trying to handle it is sensible in my opinion (opt-in, ask only once, disable the code path otherwise).

hashhar 5y ago
The issue I see it that Linux distributions generally build software from source on their own CI. This means that their telemetry data won't reflect Linux users habits and hence be useless at best or detrimental in the worst case to the decisions made using said incomplete telemetry.
- merb 5y ago
  > If you are compiling Audacity from source, we will provide a CMake option to enable the telemetry code. This option will be turned off by default.
  - hashhar 5y ago
    Distributions will disable telemetry by default. e.g. Debian etc. Only individuals running from-source OS or package managers will be able to enable telemetry.
    - capableweb 5y ago
      My guess is that Linux users (or users who use package managers in general) are happy to provide bug reports or even patches when they find bugs. Less can be said about users downloading the binaries directly from Audacity's website (Windows and macOS users), which I'm guessing is a fair bit of share. Those users will still get the choice to enable telemetry or not, and I guess those are the most important to get the telemetry from, as they are not as happy to provide bug reports nor patches.
      - hashhar 5y ago
        That a very valid point. But the sad truth is that if the people in charge of deciding product direction are the people looking at telemetry instead of bug reports/patches from users then in the end the Linux user's interests will not be high up (or even visible) to the product direction decider. I've seen this happen before at some previous workplaces where the telemetry and analytics was the only factor controlling decisions - and this lead to the vocal (but not visible in telemetry) userbase getting the short end of the stick on many occasions.
ergot_vacation 5y ago
Nothing is sensible about forcing telemetry functionality into a project like Audacity. It's a blatantly hostile act toward the user base, and likely the first step toward attempting to monetize them.
Bancakes 5y ago
I don't even want the code path in the binary at all. At worst, have it be a downloadable addon.
- IshKebab 5y ago
  Why? That's such an extreme view.
  - Bancakes 5y ago
    They could be fixing bugs and adding features. It's FOSS, just look at the git issues. Telemetry is the ultimate "We don't want to listen to opinions in forums.". Why telemetry, I'll tell you my troubles directly.
    - IshKebab 5y ago
      This is so they can fix bugs. Did you read the bit about how they are adding telemetry so they can debug rare crashes?
valdiorn 5y ago
not just FUD, the entitlement that shows through is staggering. This is from one of the comments: "" You have failed from the very outset to identify that as a widely used and well loved FOSS, you will be, and must be, at all times subject to public scrutiny of decisions prior to ANY kind of code changes being submitted. "" I know audacity was acquired recently, but these people were, until about 3 days prior to that pull request, most likely unpaid volunteers working on a hobby project for fun. It's that sort of attitude (the "you will and must be subject to public scrutiny") which is why my open source projects are only open source, I dump my code on github for people to learn from them, but I have absolutely no interest in engaging in this sort of discussion to grow my projects. And there is no lack of entitled comments on my Github issues pages.

by meibo 5y ago

hashhar 5y ago

The issue I see it that Linux distributions generally build software from source on their own CI. This means that their telemetry data won't reflect Linux users habits and hence be useless at best or detrimental in the worst case to the decisions made using said incomplete telemetry.

merb 5y ago
> If you are compiling Audacity from source, we will provide a CMake option to enable the telemetry code. This option will be turned off by default.
- hashhar 5y ago
  Distributions will disable telemetry by default. e.g. Debian etc. Only individuals running from-source OS or package managers will be able to enable telemetry.
  - capableweb 5y ago
    My guess is that Linux users (or users who use package managers in general) are happy to provide bug reports or even patches when they find bugs. Less can be said about users downloading the binaries directly from Audacity's website (Windows and macOS users), which I'm guessing is a fair bit of share. Those users will still get the choice to enable telemetry or not, and I guess those are the most important to get the telemetry from, as they are not as happy to provide bug reports nor patches.
    - hashhar 5y ago
      That a very valid point. But the sad truth is that if the people in charge of deciding product direction are the people looking at telemetry instead of bug reports/patches from users then in the end the Linux user's interests will not be high up (or even visible) to the product direction decider. I've seen this happen before at some previous workplaces where the telemetry and analytics was the only factor controlling decisions - and this lead to the vocal (but not visible in telemetry) userbase getting the short end of the stick on many occasions.

ergot_vacation 5y ago

Nothing is sensible about forcing telemetry functionality into a project like Audacity. It's a blatantly hostile act toward the user base, and likely the first step toward attempting to monetize them.

Bancakes 5y ago

I don't even want the code path in the binary at all. At worst, have it be a downloadable addon.

IshKebab 5y ago
Why? That's such an extreme view.
- Bancakes 5y ago
  They could be fixing bugs and adding features. It's FOSS, just look at the git issues. Telemetry is the ultimate "We don't want to listen to opinions in forums.". Why telemetry, I'll tell you my troubles directly.
  - IshKebab 5y ago
    This is so they can fix bugs. Did you read the bit about how they are adding telemetry so they can debug rare crashes?

valdiorn 5y ago

not just FUD, the entitlement that shows through is staggering. This is from one of the comments: "" You have failed from the very outset to identify that as a widely used and well loved FOSS, you will be, and must be, at all times subject to public scrutiny of decisions prior to ANY kind of code changes being submitted. "" I know audacity was acquired recently, but these people were, until about 3 days prior to that pull request, most likely unpaid volunteers working on a hobby project for fun. It's that sort of attitude (the "you will and must be subject to public scrutiny") which is why my open source projects are only open source, I dump my code on github for people to learn from them, but I have absolutely no interest in engaging in this sort of discussion to grow my projects. And there is no lack of entitled comments on my Github issues pages.