8 ms·

I was born in USSR and Mongolians were our Asian brothers, together with Uzbeks, Kazakhs and Tadjiks and all the other tribes in the 'stans. I remember perusing

I was born in USSR and Mongolians were our Asian brothers, together with Uzbeks, Kazakhs and Tadjiks and all the other tribes in the 'stans. I remember perusing Uzbekistan main daily in Tashkent as a young child, seeing gobbledygook in Cyrillic and thinking that it was really funny. My mother was had some really wealthy Mongolian clients who were parking money in USA real estate post 2009 meltdown and for a while they were visiting a lot. We had them over at my place and their Russian was remarkable. Basically everyone in the ruling classes was educated in USSR and spoke perfect Russian not only conversationally, but down to the cursing and jokes. My uncle went out with these guys to fish for flounder in Puget Sound and confirms pretty good command of those last two. They brought me a bottle of Chengiz Khan vodka with Cyrillic label and poitless flakes of gold in it that just sat there for a few years until I re-gifted it. Fun times. Say what you will about USSR, they brought out a lot of people from nomad lifestyles to the modern life with widespread education, without barriers to entry that we have here in USA. Ken Alibek (https://www.amazon.com/Biohazard-Chilling-Largest-Biological-World-Told/dp/0385334966 https://www.amazon.com/Biohazard-Chilling-Largest-Biological...) was one of the examples of going from village to bacteriological weapon design and on the strength of being smart.

BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago
The USSR was vast, which part of it were you born and raised in?
- danielodievich 5y ago
  Burbs of Moscow. But my family traveled extensively, more than usual for average soviet person, so I've been to every republic but Tadjikistan (all of course now countries) before the age of 14. It sounds like a lot, but it was just a spot here and there, that empire is a vast and incredibly varied land full of so many different people and even more full of nothing human related, it is difficult to comprehend unless you experience it.
  - ajuc 5y ago
    Basically you were the ruling class and think that's how USSR was for average person :)
    - skrebbel 5y ago
      You can't possibly know that.
      - ajuc 5y ago
        > Burbs of Moscow. But my family traveled extensively, more than usual for average soviet person, so I've been to every republic but Tadjikistan (all of course now countries) before the age of 14 Here.
        skrebbel 5y ago
        You're making the assumption that "travel a lot" implies "ruling class". Like I said, you can't possibly know that. You don't know anything about them, other than that they traveled a lot. FWIW I have a friend from Azerbaijan who saw a lot of the USSR as well. I don't know the details, and there will likely be people here on HN with first-hand USSR experience who can tell me why my memory makes no sense. But his story was that there was money but you couldn't use it for much, except train tickets. They saved it up and then took epic train trips through the USSR, once up to Estonia and once east towards Kyrgyzstan (not sure they got that far though), stopping in every republic along the way. His parents were a craftsperson and a high school teacher. Don't make assumptions about strangers on the internet.
        Strom 5y ago
        > You're making the assumption that "travel a lot" implies "ruling class". Not necessarily ruling but definitely highly privileged. You definitely could not just travel on a whim inside the USSR. You needed special permission from the government, which was most commonly (but not exclusively) given to people whose job depended on travel. The restrctions might have been somewhat more relaxed in the middle of nowhere in Asia, but they were extremely strict for example in occupied Estonia where I'm from. You couldn't even travel inside the whole capital city of Tallinn, even if you yourself lived there. The city was divided into zones and there were border guards protecting these zones. You can only go to a zone that has a shoreline when you directly reside there. Otherwise you might try to escape the utopia. -- The restrictions of course go way beyond just Tallinn. Want to visit one of the 1500 islands of Estonia? Too bad, not allowed unless you live on the specific island. Want to just explore the countryside? Might be somewhat possible, but better be careful not to get close to any of the secret closed cities or any of the numerous missile silos, unless you want to be labled as a threat to the USSR.
samatman 5y ago
Not sure which barriers to entry you're thinking of, but Asian Americans, as a whole, are wealthier than White Americans, better educated, stay married more, commit much less crime, and live longer. Your comment would have been much better without the unnecessary dig, which was also wrong.
- Talanes 5y ago
  Their comment was on people moving from traditional nomadic life to modern education within a lifetime. How are Asian Americans relevant to that situation in the slightest? Because both groups of people happen to be Asian?
  - nzmsv 5y ago
    You just witnessed modern US propaganda in action. We are all constantly barraged by messages about "if you look non-white you must be oppressed, poor thing". And because it is constant it is making people perform snap judgements rather than actually think. Of course someone from Uzbekistan is quite different from an an American with a vaguely Asian looking face, both culturally and economically. Any yet the parent comment author's brain automatically filed them in the same bucket. This kind of automatic thinking is exactly how propaganda works.
- pjc50 5y ago
  Ironically some Asian Americans were interned in concentration camps in living memory. George Takei, for example.
- havetocharge 5y ago
  I'm struggling here. Are you saying that there aren't any barriers for entry in the US? For everyone, or for Asians specifically?
janeroe 5y ago
My favorite part of Mongolian history is when their head refused to mass kill monks... I mean fight with the enemies of the people, so he was invited to Yalta (or some other resort?) and killed. And a new head was appointed instead. Say what you want, there are countries that achieved way more than USSR, not to mention Mongolia, without mass killings, man made famines, slavery camps, serfs (1960s was the year when Soviet "collective farmers" were salaried for the first time and got a right to get a passport and leave their "farms").
- nickserv 5y ago
  The communist countries typically enslave parts of their own population, the capitalist countries typically enslave other populations. So obviously it's nicer to live in a capitalist country. "Capitalism is the exploitation of man by man, communism is the inverse."
- nosianu 5y ago
  I grew up in East Germany. I was part of the mass events leading to the wall coming down, so you can tell what side I'm on. Still, I hate it with a passion that anytime someone dares to mention some good points of what happened in the "socialist" Eastern countries, and on a purely human level there is plenty even on the system level, comes up with this whataboutism normally thrown at others. Yes those systems had to go. But there was plenty of good stuff there, and rebuking anyone who dares mention some is unhelpful. It's such a random uncontrolled reflex.
  - nickpp 5y ago
    Now imagine someone saying what you are saying, but about the nazi death camps: that there was plenty of good stuff there!!! Do you even realise that you are talking about an inhuman sistem that killed millions and shaped the lives on countless others in horrific ways? Please have a little respect for the victims. And it's not a reflex to remind the world how communism really was: it's a duty. Because every time we see a soviet apologist we can see his agenda, his hidden motives and perverted thinking. The propaganda machine did not die with the soviet empire, it is alive and well serving the new master in the East. And the "useful idiots" are all busy digging in the turd of the past to uncover the rare jewels with which they are hoping to blind the world to the horrific truth of what really happened.
neither_color 5y ago
One of my good friends growing up was Kazakh(which is quite rare here in the US) and I met her mother who spoke fondly of the USSR; she spoke fondly of Russians(the people) but not of the government. Meeting them taught me a lot about the difference between people and their government.
hutzlibu 5y ago
"was one of the examples of going from village to bacteriological weapon design " And this is a good thing?
- ajuc 5y ago
  "Maybe USSR killed millions of people but at least it let ethnic minorities to invent weapons to kill billions"
- gumby 5y ago
  Well, yes, from the point the poster was making. This person found something he liked to do and had the opportunity to do it. I am sorry for his choice, and your note gives the impression you are too, but I think it’s a perfectly decent example.
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    I don't think it is a good example when we are talking abouz adcancement of civilisation and how the USSR helped with it. Because bio weapon research is not helpful with that I think.
ajuc 5y ago
> from village to bacteriological weapon design Right, more bacteriological weapons is what the world needs.
cxfame 5y ago
Speaking to Mongolian clients who likely belonged to the oligarchy before and after the fall of the USSR does not provide an accurate picture of the situation at large.
nickik 5y ago
> Say what you will about USSR, they brought out a lot of people from nomad lifestyles to the modern life MMhh OK, lets not ignore the fordable settlement that literally wiped out the majority of the wealth of the steppe and and killed or starved to death up to 50% of people while inducing severe starvation and malnutrition on the rest of them. It basically was basically genocide that attempted to destroy a whole culture. And then forced to do basically forced labor on state farms for the next couple of decades on low efficiency state farms. The elites of those groups were moved to the gulags in large numbers as well. I understand that your experience are from a decades after that and a lot had changed. But while the mass death of Ukrainians is in the news often because of Crimea, the much higher % of death Kazakhs is basically ignored.
Strom 5y ago
> Say what you will about USSR, they brought out a lot of people from nomad lifestyles to the modern life with widespread education The USSR also took a lot of educated modern lifestyle people and sent them to Siberian forced labor camps. The whole thing was very much a calculated plan to replace the educated upper and middle class with new people that would be more loyal to Stalin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Sov... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_settlements_in_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_settlements_in_the_Sovi...

BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago

The USSR was vast, which part of it were you born and raised in?

danielodievich 5y ago
Burbs of Moscow. But my family traveled extensively, more than usual for average soviet person, so I've been to every republic but Tadjikistan (all of course now countries) before the age of 14. It sounds like a lot, but it was just a spot here and there, that empire is a vast and incredibly varied land full of so many different people and even more full of nothing human related, it is difficult to comprehend unless you experience it.
- ajuc 5y ago
  Basically you were the ruling class and think that's how USSR was for average person :)
  - skrebbel 5y ago
    You can't possibly know that.
    - ajuc 5y ago
      > Burbs of Moscow. But my family traveled extensively, more than usual for average soviet person, so I've been to every republic but Tadjikistan (all of course now countries) before the age of 14 Here.
      - skrebbel 5y ago
        You're making the assumption that "travel a lot" implies "ruling class". Like I said, you can't possibly know that. You don't know anything about them, other than that they traveled a lot. FWIW I have a friend from Azerbaijan who saw a lot of the USSR as well. I don't know the details, and there will likely be people here on HN with first-hand USSR experience who can tell me why my memory makes no sense. But his story was that there was money but you couldn't use it for much, except train tickets. They saved it up and then took epic train trips through the USSR, once up to Estonia and once east towards Kyrgyzstan (not sure they got that far though), stopping in every republic along the way. His parents were a craftsperson and a high school teacher. Don't make assumptions about strangers on the internet.
        Strom 5y ago
        > You're making the assumption that "travel a lot" implies "ruling class". Not necessarily ruling but definitely highly privileged. You definitely could not just travel on a whim inside the USSR. You needed special permission from the government, which was most commonly (but not exclusively) given to people whose job depended on travel. The restrctions might have been somewhat more relaxed in the middle of nowhere in Asia, but they were extremely strict for example in occupied Estonia where I'm from. You couldn't even travel inside the whole capital city of Tallinn, even if you yourself lived there. The city was divided into zones and there were border guards protecting these zones. You can only go to a zone that has a shoreline when you directly reside there. Otherwise you might try to escape the utopia. -- The restrictions of course go way beyond just Tallinn. Want to visit one of the 1500 islands of Estonia? Too bad, not allowed unless you live on the specific island. Want to just explore the countryside? Might be somewhat possible, but better be careful not to get close to any of the secret closed cities or any of the numerous missile silos, unless you want to be labled as a threat to the USSR.

samatman 5y ago

Not sure which barriers to entry you're thinking of, but Asian Americans, as a whole, are wealthier than White Americans, better educated, stay married more, commit much less crime, and live longer. Your comment would have been much better without the unnecessary dig, which was also wrong.

Talanes 5y ago
Their comment was on people moving from traditional nomadic life to modern education within a lifetime. How are Asian Americans relevant to that situation in the slightest? Because both groups of people happen to be Asian?
- nzmsv 5y ago
  You just witnessed modern US propaganda in action. We are all constantly barraged by messages about "if you look non-white you must be oppressed, poor thing". And because it is constant it is making people perform snap judgements rather than actually think. Of course someone from Uzbekistan is quite different from an an American with a vaguely Asian looking face, both culturally and economically. Any yet the parent comment author's brain automatically filed them in the same bucket. This kind of automatic thinking is exactly how propaganda works.
pjc50 5y ago
Ironically some Asian Americans were interned in concentration camps in living memory. George Takei, for example.
havetocharge 5y ago
I'm struggling here. Are you saying that there aren't any barriers for entry in the US? For everyone, or for Asians specifically?

janeroe 5y ago

My favorite part of Mongolian history is when their head refused to mass kill monks... I mean fight with the enemies of the people, so he was invited to Yalta (or some other resort?) and killed. And a new head was appointed instead. Say what you want, there are countries that achieved way more than USSR, not to mention Mongolia, without mass killings, man made famines, slavery camps, serfs (1960s was the year when Soviet "collective farmers" were salaried for the first time and got a right to get a passport and leave their "farms").

nickserv 5y ago
The communist countries typically enslave parts of their own population, the capitalist countries typically enslave other populations. So obviously it's nicer to live in a capitalist country. "Capitalism is the exploitation of man by man, communism is the inverse."
nosianu 5y ago
I grew up in East Germany. I was part of the mass events leading to the wall coming down, so you can tell what side I'm on. Still, I hate it with a passion that anytime someone dares to mention some good points of what happened in the "socialist" Eastern countries, and on a purely human level there is plenty even on the system level, comes up with this whataboutism normally thrown at others. Yes those systems had to go. But there was plenty of good stuff there, and rebuking anyone who dares mention some is unhelpful. It's such a random uncontrolled reflex.
- nickpp 5y ago
  Now imagine someone saying what you are saying, but about the nazi death camps: that there was plenty of good stuff there!!! Do you even realise that you are talking about an inhuman sistem that killed millions and shaped the lives on countless others in horrific ways? Please have a little respect for the victims. And it's not a reflex to remind the world how communism really was: it's a duty. Because every time we see a soviet apologist we can see his agenda, his hidden motives and perverted thinking. The propaganda machine did not die with the soviet empire, it is alive and well serving the new master in the East. And the "useful idiots" are all busy digging in the turd of the past to uncover the rare jewels with which they are hoping to blind the world to the horrific truth of what really happened.

neither_color 5y ago

One of my good friends growing up was Kazakh(which is quite rare here in the US) and I met her mother who spoke fondly of the USSR; she spoke fondly of Russians(the people) but not of the government. Meeting them taught me a lot about the difference between people and their government.

hutzlibu 5y ago

"was one of the examples of going from village to bacteriological weapon design " And this is a good thing?

ajuc 5y ago
"Maybe USSR killed millions of people but at least it let ethnic minorities to invent weapons to kill billions"
gumby 5y ago
Well, yes, from the point the poster was making. This person found something he liked to do and had the opportunity to do it. I am sorry for his choice, and your note gives the impression you are too, but I think it’s a perfectly decent example.
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  I don't think it is a good example when we are talking abouz adcancement of civilisation and how the USSR helped with it. Because bio weapon research is not helpful with that I think.

ajuc 5y ago

> from village to bacteriological weapon design Right, more bacteriological weapons is what the world needs.

cxfame 5y ago

Speaking to Mongolian clients who likely belonged to the oligarchy before and after the fall of the USSR does not provide an accurate picture of the situation at large.

nickik 5y ago

> Say what you will about USSR, they brought out a lot of people from nomad lifestyles to the modern life MMhh OK, lets not ignore the fordable settlement that literally wiped out the majority of the wealth of the steppe and and killed or starved to death up to 50% of people while inducing severe starvation and malnutrition on the rest of them. It basically was basically genocide that attempted to destroy a whole culture. And then forced to do basically forced labor on state farms for the next couple of decades on low efficiency state farms. The elites of those groups were moved to the gulags in large numbers as well. I understand that your experience are from a decades after that and a lot had changed. But while the mass death of Ukrainians is in the news often because of Crimea, the much higher % of death Kazakhs is basically ignored.

Strom 5y ago

> Say what you will about USSR, they brought out a lot of people from nomad lifestyles to the modern life with widespread education The USSR also took a lot of educated modern lifestyle people and sent them to Siberian forced labor camps. The whole thing was very much a calculated plan to replace the educated upper and middle class with new people that would be more loyal to Stalin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Sov... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_settlements_in_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_settlements_in_the_Sovi...