3 ms·

Re: coil.com, what they do is entirely possible on a centralized system. cam sites have been using token based internal payment systems based on minutes viewed,

Re: coil.com, what they do is entirely possible on a centralized system. cam sites have been using token based internal payment systems based on minutes viewed, tips, etc at sub $0.01 levels for 20+ years now. and until the tubes came along, all sides profited handsomely. source: i helped build some.

noxer 5y ago
That not what coil does. Coils is just payment provider for web monetization. You can use another (probably none exist so far) and more importantly you can use web monetization outside of coil owned platforms. The cam site thing maybe look similar on the surface but its not. It only works in very limited full controlled closed system. It can not scale to the web. You would need 100+ subscriptions in the end that not the goal. Or you would need one overlord that has the monopoly on web monetization and everyone is forced to use g$$gle. Obviously bad for all kinds of reasons like privacy, competition, censorship etc etc. Web monetization puts a payment pointer into the HTML meta tag The browser reads this and streams money there. See https://webmonetization.org/docs/getting-started https://webmonetization.org/docs/getting-started
- e12e 5y ago
  > you can use web monetization outside of coil owned platforms. Like you can use PayPal to sell (access to) digital assets? Or patron? I'm not sure which part of the core value proposition of coil has anything to do with blockchain? And small wonder: crypto/chains allows us to transfer trust (eg, I trust i can buy milk for my dollar, I buy bitcoin for a dollar, I give you bitcoin, if you can sell bitcoin for a dollar, we trust that I have given you the opportunity to buy milk). This could also go via bank transfer, or hybrid systems like PayPal,stripe or vipps[1]. I see some benefit to "magic crypto cash on the interwebz"- but untraceable tender is generally not what chains facilitate. Quite the opposite. When you realize crypto currency can go two ways: perfect taxation (billionaires and corporations will fight it, to the death), or: perfect money laundring/tax evasion (government will fight it, to the death) - the crypto future looks quite distant. [1] a Norwegian bank owned platform for instant digital settlement: https://vipps.no https://vipps.no
  - noxer 5y ago
    The question you have could easy be answer by yourself if you just go to the official page and read for 5 minutes what they are doing and how. Coil primary uses ILP its not a blockchain its a protocol it can use fiat or "magic crypto cash on the interwebz" its irrelevant. >This could also go via bank transfer, or hybrid systems like PayPal,stripe or vipps[1]. As soon as they support ILP yes, it could use whatever that's the whole point. An open standard/protocol where everyone can join and offer competing service and 2 parties can transact with each other regardless of whos underlying service they use. Like email. I dont care whos your email provider I just need your address and it works. The IPL equivalent is called Interledger Payment Pointer. Again has nothing to do with blockchain. If you actually are interested its now up to you to read more about it. I wont go any further with this discussion.
    - e12e 5y ago
      >>> I'm not sure which part of the core value proposition of coil has anything to do with blockchain? >> The question you have could easy be answer by yourself if you just go to the official page and read for 5 minutes what they are doing and how. From coil.com: > Get your Coil Membership for $5 per month. > Install the Coil Extension or the Puma Browser app. > Log in to Coil and enjoy web monetized content and features across the internet. So the same model as patron? The original question was about if the companies product could work without the blockchain. I would be happy to see an open standard for transactions - but no one will pay coil.com for that. They make money as middlemen. That's what they are selling. So, again - how is blockchain essential to what coil are doing (as a business)? Is their business model not being a payment provider, collecting legal tender ("real money") from consumers and funelling it to producers? Do users not depend on coil for the client code and platform? Certainly creating an open protocol, is a way to build the product - but it does not appear to be quicker or easier than a more traditional, centralized solution?

noxer 5y ago

That not what coil does. Coils is just payment provider for web monetization. You can use another (probably none exist so far) and more importantly you can use web monetization outside of coil owned platforms. The cam site thing maybe look similar on the surface but its not. It only works in very limited full controlled closed system. It can not scale to the web. You would need 100+ subscriptions in the end that not the goal. Or you would need one overlord that has the monopoly on web monetization and everyone is forced to use g$$gle. Obviously bad for all kinds of reasons like privacy, competition, censorship etc etc. Web monetization puts a payment pointer into the HTML meta tag The browser reads this and streams money there. See https://webmonetization.org/docs/getting-started https://webmonetization.org/docs/getting-started

e12e 5y ago
> you can use web monetization outside of coil owned platforms. Like you can use PayPal to sell (access to) digital assets? Or patron? I'm not sure which part of the core value proposition of coil has anything to do with blockchain? And small wonder: crypto/chains allows us to transfer trust (eg, I trust i can buy milk for my dollar, I buy bitcoin for a dollar, I give you bitcoin, if you can sell bitcoin for a dollar, we trust that I have given you the opportunity to buy milk). This could also go via bank transfer, or hybrid systems like PayPal,stripe or vipps[1]. I see some benefit to "magic crypto cash on the interwebz"- but untraceable tender is generally not what chains facilitate. Quite the opposite. When you realize crypto currency can go two ways: perfect taxation (billionaires and corporations will fight it, to the death), or: perfect money laundring/tax evasion (government will fight it, to the death) - the crypto future looks quite distant. [1] a Norwegian bank owned platform for instant digital settlement: https://vipps.no https://vipps.no
- noxer 5y ago
  The question you have could easy be answer by yourself if you just go to the official page and read for 5 minutes what they are doing and how. Coil primary uses ILP its not a blockchain its a protocol it can use fiat or "magic crypto cash on the interwebz" its irrelevant. >This could also go via bank transfer, or hybrid systems like PayPal,stripe or vipps[1]. As soon as they support ILP yes, it could use whatever that's the whole point. An open standard/protocol where everyone can join and offer competing service and 2 parties can transact with each other regardless of whos underlying service they use. Like email. I dont care whos your email provider I just need your address and it works. The IPL equivalent is called Interledger Payment Pointer. Again has nothing to do with blockchain. If you actually are interested its now up to you to read more about it. I wont go any further with this discussion.
  - e12e 5y ago
    >>> I'm not sure which part of the core value proposition of coil has anything to do with blockchain? >> The question you have could easy be answer by yourself if you just go to the official page and read for 5 minutes what they are doing and how. From coil.com: > Get your Coil Membership for $5 per month. > Install the Coil Extension or the Puma Browser app. > Log in to Coil and enjoy web monetized content and features across the internet. So the same model as patron? The original question was about if the companies product could work without the blockchain. I would be happy to see an open standard for transactions - but no one will pay coil.com for that. They make money as middlemen. That's what they are selling. So, again - how is blockchain essential to what coil are doing (as a business)? Is their business model not being a payment provider, collecting legal tender ("real money") from consumers and funelling it to producers? Do users not depend on coil for the client code and platform? Certainly creating an open protocol, is a way to build the product - but it does not appear to be quicker or easier than a more traditional, centralized solution?