8 ms·

Okay, but you have to acknowledge that your experience was with a version of the United States that no longer exists. Things have changed a lot for people on t

Okay, but you have to acknowledge that your experience was with a version of the United States that no longer exists. Things have changed a lot for people on the bottom rungs since the '90s, Walter. Some sympathy for the fact that bootstrapping is vastly more difficult for young people today might be a better look.

WalterBright 5y ago
It's never been easier and cheaper to get an education in the US, start a business, reach a global marketplace, learn how to do anything you want to do, etc. When I was young it was pretty much unheard of for people to get wealthy before 25. Now it's commonplace and unremarkable.
- the_only_law 5y ago
  > It's never been easier and cheaper to get an education in the US Source? even the most conservative people I know who went to school in the 80s/90s say they could never afford it now. I myself am trying to figure out how to pay for it without $40k grand in debt if I choose to go back.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    MIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfQxyVuLeCs&list=PL9F74AFA03AA06A11 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfQxyVuLeCs&list=PL9F74AFA03... K-12: https://www.khanacademy.org/ https://www.khanacademy.org/ All free, available on the supercomputer in your pocket.
    - XorNot 5y ago
      All completely irrelevant since they don't provide the official certifications which employers check. Not to mention entirely dependent on the unsupported precept that traditional teaching structures were apparently worthless - but, it's cheap to put your money where your mouth is on this: are you going to save a lot of time and money and educate your children solely via these resources?
      - WalterBright 5y ago
        > official certifications which employers check Yet I wangled a job writing software despite a mechanical engineering job achieved without CS courses. I also know several people at Microsoft in programming jobs who had no college experience. There are tens of thousands of employers, all different. You can even start your own business doing programming, EE design, whatever. > apparently worthless Not at all. It's maybe a harder road, sure, but it's navigable for those who want to do it for free.
    - staticman2 5y ago
      You could have made the same argument in 1908, telling people to self educate at their local library. If everyone watched a 2007 youtube course on circuits at MIT and learned the material, the value of such a skillset would be equal to the value of flipping Burgers at Burger King.
      - WalterBright 5y ago
        > in 1980 Ironically, my grandfather at the time made his career by selling correspondence courses for college degrees. It was the equivalent in those days. He met my grandmother selling her a course in mechanical engineering she used to get a better job at the phone company. My grandfather started literally at the bottom - shoveling coal into a steamship's boiler. A dirty, dangerous, sweaty job he did for years. He improved his lot by taking correspondence courses, and liked them so much decided on a career in selling them, primarily to sailors. > If everyone I wouldn't conflate "don't" with "can't". I know about the MIT course because I took it myself (along with others) to fill in gaps in my education. And why not? Education doesn't stop with the diploma.
- rejectedandsad 5y ago
  How do you define wealthy Walter? I’m 25 and “unremarkable” and my net worth is only a quarter million. I make about $200k at a company you’d probably consider unimpressive. Not everyone can be remarkable enough to go to CalTech.
  - lfowles 5y ago
    Some days I can't tell which comments on HN are parody and which aren't...
    - rejectedandsad 5y ago
      I’m sorry what seems to be satirical about my statement?
      - lfowles 5y ago
        You're only a few years into your career, not saddled with an oversized tuition from a prestigious university, and already making $200k with a sizable net worth. In my books that's absolutely a path to wealth!
      - jpindar 5y ago
        "only" a quarter million
        DoreenMichele 5y ago
        Some people have tunnel vision.
  - BalinKing 5y ago
    I'm confused by your argument, because I'd consider making $200K/yr to be firmly on the side of wealthy. Also, I think he was talking about the circumstances being unremarkable, not the people themselves. (Minor note, since you brought it up: it's spelled "Caltech".)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
uvnq 5y ago
It seems a lot easier, given the fact that accessing an audience or starting a business requires significantly less capital than it did back then. Although maybe there's a side to your argument that I'm missing?
- pseudalopex 5y ago
  I think they meant bootstrapping a life not a business.
anonfornoreason 5y ago
Disagree, it's never been easier. The country is awash in vast amounts of money, trying to find ways to be invested, to be spent. Access to information and resources is higher than it has ever been. Sure, it's hard to just get by if you aren't out there hustling. The time of getting an average job with an average pension, which lets you buy a reasonable price house is over. The world is your oyster if you are willing to put in the time and have any ability to plan, organize, and work.
- pseudalopex 5y ago
  Most businesses fail. Why do you think that is?
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    80% of businesses fail in 5 years. There are many reasons, but the usual ones revolve around things like not understanding accounting, not putting in the effort, etc. It's also true that many very successful people failed at business time after time before figuring it out. Fortunately, American culture doesn't look askance at people that fail at business and try again.
    - pseudalopex 5y ago
      What percent of businesses fail because the owners don't understand accounting? What percent fail because they don't put in the effort? Where did you find this data?
      - WalterBright 5y ago
        Google "why businesses fail" and there's a lot of information.
- treis 5y ago
  >The time of getting an average job with an average pension, which lets you buy a reasonable price house is over. Covid craziness aside, that's still true. You can't do it in California, or Seattle or NYC but outside of those areas it's easily obtainable. Most of these "homes were so cheap" anecdotes neglect to mention that you might be paying 18% interest on your cheap houses. Or they are talking about a place like NYC in the 70s. Yeah you could have gotten a house for a song in a bankrupt city suffering through the crack epidemic.

WalterBright 5y ago

It's never been easier and cheaper to get an education in the US, start a business, reach a global marketplace, learn how to do anything you want to do, etc. When I was young it was pretty much unheard of for people to get wealthy before 25. Now it's commonplace and unremarkable.

the_only_law 5y ago
> It's never been easier and cheaper to get an education in the US Source? even the most conservative people I know who went to school in the 80s/90s say they could never afford it now. I myself am trying to figure out how to pay for it without $40k grand in debt if I choose to go back.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  MIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfQxyVuLeCs&list=PL9F74AFA03AA06A11 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfQxyVuLeCs&list=PL9F74AFA03... K-12: https://www.khanacademy.org/ https://www.khanacademy.org/ All free, available on the supercomputer in your pocket.
  - XorNot 5y ago
    All completely irrelevant since they don't provide the official certifications which employers check. Not to mention entirely dependent on the unsupported precept that traditional teaching structures were apparently worthless - but, it's cheap to put your money where your mouth is on this: are you going to save a lot of time and money and educate your children solely via these resources?
    - WalterBright 5y ago
      > official certifications which employers check Yet I wangled a job writing software despite a mechanical engineering job achieved without CS courses. I also know several people at Microsoft in programming jobs who had no college experience. There are tens of thousands of employers, all different. You can even start your own business doing programming, EE design, whatever. > apparently worthless Not at all. It's maybe a harder road, sure, but it's navigable for those who want to do it for free.
  - staticman2 5y ago
    You could have made the same argument in 1908, telling people to self educate at their local library. If everyone watched a 2007 youtube course on circuits at MIT and learned the material, the value of such a skillset would be equal to the value of flipping Burgers at Burger King.
    - WalterBright 5y ago
      > in 1980 Ironically, my grandfather at the time made his career by selling correspondence courses for college degrees. It was the equivalent in those days. He met my grandmother selling her a course in mechanical engineering she used to get a better job at the phone company. My grandfather started literally at the bottom - shoveling coal into a steamship's boiler. A dirty, dangerous, sweaty job he did for years. He improved his lot by taking correspondence courses, and liked them so much decided on a career in selling them, primarily to sailors. > If everyone I wouldn't conflate "don't" with "can't". I know about the MIT course because I took it myself (along with others) to fill in gaps in my education. And why not? Education doesn't stop with the diploma.
rejectedandsad 5y ago
How do you define wealthy Walter? I’m 25 and “unremarkable” and my net worth is only a quarter million. I make about $200k at a company you’d probably consider unimpressive. Not everyone can be remarkable enough to go to CalTech.
- lfowles 5y ago
  Some days I can't tell which comments on HN are parody and which aren't...
  - rejectedandsad 5y ago
    I’m sorry what seems to be satirical about my statement?
    - lfowles 5y ago
      You're only a few years into your career, not saddled with an oversized tuition from a prestigious university, and already making $200k with a sizable net worth. In my books that's absolutely a path to wealth!
    - jpindar 5y ago
      "only" a quarter million
      - DoreenMichele 5y ago
        Some people have tunnel vision.
- BalinKing 5y ago
  I'm confused by your argument, because I'd consider making $200K/yr to be firmly on the side of wealthy. Also, I think he was talking about the circumstances being unremarkable, not the people themselves. (Minor note, since you brought it up: it's spelled "Caltech".)
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

uvnq 5y ago

It seems a lot easier, given the fact that accessing an audience or starting a business requires significantly less capital than it did back then. Although maybe there's a side to your argument that I'm missing?

pseudalopex 5y ago
I think they meant bootstrapping a life not a business.

anonfornoreason 5y ago

Disagree, it's never been easier. The country is awash in vast amounts of money, trying to find ways to be invested, to be spent. Access to information and resources is higher than it has ever been. Sure, it's hard to just get by if you aren't out there hustling. The time of getting an average job with an average pension, which lets you buy a reasonable price house is over. The world is your oyster if you are willing to put in the time and have any ability to plan, organize, and work.

pseudalopex 5y ago
Most businesses fail. Why do you think that is?
- WalterBright 5y ago
  80% of businesses fail in 5 years. There are many reasons, but the usual ones revolve around things like not understanding accounting, not putting in the effort, etc. It's also true that many very successful people failed at business time after time before figuring it out. Fortunately, American culture doesn't look askance at people that fail at business and try again.
  - pseudalopex 5y ago
    What percent of businesses fail because the owners don't understand accounting? What percent fail because they don't put in the effort? Where did you find this data?
    - WalterBright 5y ago
      Google "why businesses fail" and there's a lot of information.
treis 5y ago
>The time of getting an average job with an average pension, which lets you buy a reasonable price house is over. Covid craziness aside, that's still true. You can't do it in California, or Seattle or NYC but outside of those areas it's easily obtainable. Most of these "homes were so cheap" anecdotes neglect to mention that you might be paying 18% interest on your cheap houses. Or they are talking about a place like NYC in the 70s. Yeah you could have gotten a house for a song in a bankrupt city suffering through the crack epidemic.