5 ms·

>In life, your only opponent is yourself. This argument reminds me of people who try to deny things like white privilege by describing how hard they had to wor

>In life, your only opponent is yourself. This argument reminds me of people who try to deny things like white privilege by describing how hard they had to work to get where they are now. Yeah, well, for a lot of people working hard (or not) isn't the only important factor that's determining their odds of success. That's the privilege...

grawprog 5y ago
>That's the privilege... Only experienced by white people of course which also by your implication are incapable of experiencing >Yeah, well, for a lot of people working hard (or not) isn't the only important factor that's determining their odds of success It's great you lead a privileged enough life you've never had to interact with poor struggling white people before.
- psychometry 5y ago
  Thanks for proving my point. I assume at this point that people who still don't understand the concept of privilege are being deliberately obtuse, so I'm not going to bother with you. The information is out there. You can choose to make an effort to understand or not.
  - charrondev 5y ago
    I think the point is that whole collectively one group may be more privileged, people are individuals and not a collective. For example a black child born into extreme or moderate wealth is undoubtedly more privileged than a white child that is orphaned at a young age.
    - capitol_ 5y ago
      There is always statistical outliers in any large data set, but they don't affect the median value significantly.
      - bart_spoon 5y ago
        This is in no way a rebuttal to what they said. The point is that privilege very well may exist and be a valid concept surrounding an aggregate, but be a invalid tool for comparing individuals.
        psychometry 5y ago
        Who's using it to compare individuals? The entire discussion revolves around populations and institutions.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - psychometry 5y ago
      Conditionality is applied in the concept: Privilege is essentially the difference in outcomes ascribed to two otherwise identical people due to a particular disadvantage that members of one group suffer but members of the other group don't.
    - bart_spoon 5y ago
      This is also known as an ecological fallacy [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_fallacy
ImprobableTruth 5y ago
I hate the framing of 'privilege', because it portrays these things as some special. unfair advantage, rather than other groups having a unfair disadvantage. You could say that poor people are 'housing privileged' as homeless people have it even worse, but I think it's absolutely clear what an awful thing that would be to say. Being rich, famous or well-connected, that is 'real' privilege and should rightfully be called out. Not having to fear encounters with the police, not being discriminated in regards to employment or not being harassed on the streets are fundamental rights. Even if you don't care about being sensitive, telling people that they are privileged for having these is just so obviously counterproductive.
- psychometry 5y ago
  It sure sounds like you're the one being overly sensitive given that you're describing two equivalent states of affair and finding one of them offensive because you don't the words attached to it.
  - selestify 5y ago
    Well of course, there's a difference in connotation of blame between "privileged" and "disadvantaged", even if they both refer to the same relative difference. It's as if the terminology of "privileged" is purposefully trying to offend.
    - bongothrowaway 5y ago
      It is. The -point- of the term is to reverse the usual dynamic between the privileged and the disadvantaged. What that dynamic is depends on whether you see the categories in this comparison as only two (the haves and the have-nots) or three (including a "normal" category which lies somewhere between the two), or perhaps as a spectrum (where privileged and disadvantaged arguably lie at the extremes of the bell curve).
  - ImprobableTruth 5y ago
    I'm saying I consider it insensitive to not care what effect your choice of words has on how people perceive things. If you think that makes me 'overly sensitive', then I'd recommend reflecting a bit on who is hurt by bad messaging. And if you don't believe me that it's bad messaging, just look up the studies on the effects of framing racial inequality as privilege.

grawprog 5y ago

>That's the privilege... Only experienced by white people of course which also by your implication are incapable of experiencing >Yeah, well, for a lot of people working hard (or not) isn't the only important factor that's determining their odds of success It's great you lead a privileged enough life you've never had to interact with poor struggling white people before.

psychometry 5y ago
Thanks for proving my point. I assume at this point that people who still don't understand the concept of privilege are being deliberately obtuse, so I'm not going to bother with you. The information is out there. You can choose to make an effort to understand or not.
- charrondev 5y ago
  I think the point is that whole collectively one group may be more privileged, people are individuals and not a collective. For example a black child born into extreme or moderate wealth is undoubtedly more privileged than a white child that is orphaned at a young age.
  - capitol_ 5y ago
    There is always statistical outliers in any large data set, but they don't affect the median value significantly.
    - bart_spoon 5y ago
      This is in no way a rebuttal to what they said. The point is that privilege very well may exist and be a valid concept surrounding an aggregate, but be a invalid tool for comparing individuals.
      - psychometry 5y ago
        Who's using it to compare individuals? The entire discussion revolves around populations and institutions.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - psychometry 5y ago
    Conditionality is applied in the concept: Privilege is essentially the difference in outcomes ascribed to two otherwise identical people due to a particular disadvantage that members of one group suffer but members of the other group don't.
  - bart_spoon 5y ago
    This is also known as an ecological fallacy [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_fallacy

ImprobableTruth 5y ago

I hate the framing of 'privilege', because it portrays these things as some special. unfair advantage, rather than other groups having a unfair disadvantage. You could say that poor people are 'housing privileged' as homeless people have it even worse, but I think it's absolutely clear what an awful thing that would be to say. Being rich, famous or well-connected, that is 'real' privilege and should rightfully be called out. Not having to fear encounters with the police, not being discriminated in regards to employment or not being harassed on the streets are fundamental rights. Even if you don't care about being sensitive, telling people that they are privileged for having these is just so obviously counterproductive.

psychometry 5y ago
It sure sounds like you're the one being overly sensitive given that you're describing two equivalent states of affair and finding one of them offensive because you don't the words attached to it.
- selestify 5y ago
  Well of course, there's a difference in connotation of blame between "privileged" and "disadvantaged", even if they both refer to the same relative difference. It's as if the terminology of "privileged" is purposefully trying to offend.
  - bongothrowaway 5y ago
    It is. The -point- of the term is to reverse the usual dynamic between the privileged and the disadvantaged. What that dynamic is depends on whether you see the categories in this comparison as only two (the haves and the have-nots) or three (including a "normal" category which lies somewhere between the two), or perhaps as a spectrum (where privileged and disadvantaged arguably lie at the extremes of the bell curve).
- ImprobableTruth 5y ago
  I'm saying I consider it insensitive to not care what effect your choice of words has on how people perceive things. If you think that makes me 'overly sensitive', then I'd recommend reflecting a bit on who is hurt by bad messaging. And if you don't believe me that it's bad messaging, just look up the studies on the effects of framing racial inequality as privilege.