6 ms·

As an employer, it's really hard to compete for talent with the company down the street, when the company down the street is paying $300 per week for 0 hours wo

by nikanj 6y ago

As an employer, it's really hard to compete for talent with the company down the street, when the company down the street is paying $300 per week for 0 hours worked. That really messes with the invisible hand.

asdff 6y ago
Sounds like you should be paying your staff more than $7.5/hr if that is the going rate by this company down the street paying $300 a week.
bildung 6y ago
If you can't afford to pay more than $7,50 per hour, then the market has spoken: you have no working business model.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- rataata_jr 6y ago
  What if you are just starting out? Should only the big companies be able to hire workers? Is this tilting the odds in favor of say McD etc?
  - johnchristopher 6y ago
    Then it means your working business model relies on VC money or government subsidies. Founders can take the cut but not the employers who don't benefit from it. Isn't the buck supposed to be passed down to the customers, not the workers ?
  - Broken_Hippo 6y ago
    If you can't pay a living wage, don't start or have a business. Period. This isn't a big vs small business debate - small places don't always pay crap wages, and some big places do pay crap wages. Sidenote: A lot of fast food places are franchises, and a franchise might just have one or two. They aren't in any better position than a family-owned fast food place in a small town.
    - bombcar 6y ago
      They're often in a worse-off position, as you can run a family diner with a family; I've seen a number where it's a husband/wife team with maybe one "employee" (as owners don't need to be paid a wage). Franchises usually can't get away with that (maybe Subway could).
      - Broken_Hippo 6y ago
        Sometimes worse off, some aren't. There are different challenges to both models. I was more pointing out that many fast food places aren't exactly a real part of a big international chain, but rather some folks that are paying to use the name and menu. None of this changes my main point, though: If you cannot pay your employees a living wage, you should not run a business.
- dehrmann 6y ago
  It's $7.50 per hour extra: > Starting June 27, Montanans will lose access to the extra $300 in weekly unemployment benefits, but maintain their regular benefits.
- prepend 6y ago
  It’s not the $7.50 so much as the $7.50 extra for zero hours. So my calculus is “Would I rather make $300/week for zero hours worked or $600/week for 40 hours worked?” So it’s not just a more money question, but a money vs time issue. It seems rational to me to prefer less money for no work. The problem is that it’s not sustainable as we’re adding debt to pay for it in the short term. This seemed important when work was impossible due to COVID, but now that we’re recovering it’s again possible to work. Is there was a sustainable UBI plan to keep paying for this in the long term, that would be nice.
- shin_lao 6y ago
  You, the customer, is the person who pays the employee down the road.
- COGlory 6y ago
  The Wendy's in Bozeman MT is starting at $17/hr. The McDonalds is starting at $15.50. This is not a wages problem. This is a huge influx of wealthy people to the state that aren't working but are taking up property and services problem.
  - falcolas 6y ago
    The cost of living in Bozeman is astronomical. $800k single family houses. $1,500 apartments. Even the exorbitant sounding $17 an hour isn’t much of a living wage in Bozeman anymore. Hasn’t been for a decade or more.
    - COGlory 6y ago
      People getting paid entry wage at McDonald's were never supposed to be able to afford a house on that. Also housing prices are astronomical, but your numbers are a touch high. I believe the median home price is $600k or so.
      - falcolas 6y ago
        > were never supposed to be able to afford a house on that. Cost of living isn't just "buying a house". It's housing, transportation, clothing, food, etc. > your numbers are a touch high. Nope. I just got a flier that mentioned that the average home price for a townhouse in Belgrade (a "suburb" of Bozeman (which itself only has roughly a 50k population), for those not local) is $765k.
      - pessimizer 6y ago
        > entry wage at McDonald's "Entry wage" is a misnomer for jobs like that. There's no advancement at a job like that except to management, and there will always be an order of magnitude fewer managers than workers (and far less turnover.)
        josephcsible 6y ago
        Not everyone who works at McDonald's is supposed to stay there forever and advance there. In general, you should either be getting a college degree or taking up a skilled trade, and only working at McDonald's until you do.
- jonnycomputer 6y ago
  Perhaps. But doesn't competition also drive firms to make decisions that rely on such business models? If you leave fiscal room for an increase in the cost of labor, aren't you paying the opportunity cost that will put you at a price disadvantage relative to your competitors? Markets punish inefficiency, even at the price of long term risk.
c2h5oh 6y ago
If people are comparing $300 for 0 hours vs $300 for 40+ hours then sure. Try paying them $600 per week. If they see you pay enough for them to afford rent (which is not possible with $300 week) you will have the better offer.
- protomyth 6y ago
  If they see you pay enough for them to afford rent (which is not possible with $300 week) It is quite possible to pay rent if you make $300 a week in parts of this country. That is why the $15/hour nationally is dumb. Let the locals pick their number for their area.
- falcolas 6y ago
  $600 a week, when some Montana cities (Bozeman) have apartments in the $1,500 a month range, still isn't much to try and live on.
imtringued 6y ago
That just means your company should go out of business and free up resources for a more productive company. Edit: How does the more productive company survive? Well, there is a "company" down the street creating customers who have $300 per week to spend on things they actually need.
- lerchmo 6y ago
  Or, if you are able you can move your business to Mexico or China.
LatteLazy 6y ago
No, it's easy, you pay $400 a week.
- josephcsible 6y ago
  I don't think many people would work for $400 a week when you can get $300 a week by not working.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

by nikanj 6y ago

asdff 6y ago

Sounds like you should be paying your staff more than $7.5/hr if that is the going rate by this company down the street paying $300 a week.

bildung 6y ago

If you can't afford to pay more than $7,50 per hour, then the market has spoken: you have no working business model.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
rataata_jr 6y ago
What if you are just starting out? Should only the big companies be able to hire workers? Is this tilting the odds in favor of say McD etc?
- johnchristopher 6y ago
  Then it means your working business model relies on VC money or government subsidies. Founders can take the cut but not the employers who don't benefit from it. Isn't the buck supposed to be passed down to the customers, not the workers ?
- Broken_Hippo 6y ago
  If you can't pay a living wage, don't start or have a business. Period. This isn't a big vs small business debate - small places don't always pay crap wages, and some big places do pay crap wages. Sidenote: A lot of fast food places are franchises, and a franchise might just have one or two. They aren't in any better position than a family-owned fast food place in a small town.
  - bombcar 6y ago
    They're often in a worse-off position, as you can run a family diner with a family; I've seen a number where it's a husband/wife team with maybe one "employee" (as owners don't need to be paid a wage). Franchises usually can't get away with that (maybe Subway could).
    - Broken_Hippo 6y ago
      Sometimes worse off, some aren't. There are different challenges to both models. I was more pointing out that many fast food places aren't exactly a real part of a big international chain, but rather some folks that are paying to use the name and menu. None of this changes my main point, though: If you cannot pay your employees a living wage, you should not run a business.
dehrmann 6y ago
It's $7.50 per hour extra: > Starting June 27, Montanans will lose access to the extra $300 in weekly unemployment benefits, but maintain their regular benefits.
prepend 6y ago
It’s not the $7.50 so much as the $7.50 extra for zero hours. So my calculus is “Would I rather make $300/week for zero hours worked or $600/week for 40 hours worked?” So it’s not just a more money question, but a money vs time issue. It seems rational to me to prefer less money for no work. The problem is that it’s not sustainable as we’re adding debt to pay for it in the short term. This seemed important when work was impossible due to COVID, but now that we’re recovering it’s again possible to work. Is there was a sustainable UBI plan to keep paying for this in the long term, that would be nice.
shin_lao 6y ago
You, the customer, is the person who pays the employee down the road.
COGlory 6y ago
The Wendy's in Bozeman MT is starting at $17/hr. The McDonalds is starting at $15.50. This is not a wages problem. This is a huge influx of wealthy people to the state that aren't working but are taking up property and services problem.
- falcolas 6y ago
  The cost of living in Bozeman is astronomical. $800k single family houses. $1,500 apartments. Even the exorbitant sounding $17 an hour isn’t much of a living wage in Bozeman anymore. Hasn’t been for a decade or more.
  - COGlory 6y ago
    People getting paid entry wage at McDonald's were never supposed to be able to afford a house on that. Also housing prices are astronomical, but your numbers are a touch high. I believe the median home price is $600k or so.
    - falcolas 6y ago
      > were never supposed to be able to afford a house on that. Cost of living isn't just "buying a house". It's housing, transportation, clothing, food, etc. > your numbers are a touch high. Nope. I just got a flier that mentioned that the average home price for a townhouse in Belgrade (a "suburb" of Bozeman (which itself only has roughly a 50k population), for those not local) is $765k.
    - pessimizer 6y ago
      > entry wage at McDonald's "Entry wage" is a misnomer for jobs like that. There's no advancement at a job like that except to management, and there will always be an order of magnitude fewer managers than workers (and far less turnover.)
      - josephcsible 6y ago
        Not everyone who works at McDonald's is supposed to stay there forever and advance there. In general, you should either be getting a college degree or taking up a skilled trade, and only working at McDonald's until you do.
jonnycomputer 6y ago
Perhaps. But doesn't competition also drive firms to make decisions that rely on such business models? If you leave fiscal room for an increase in the cost of labor, aren't you paying the opportunity cost that will put you at a price disadvantage relative to your competitors? Markets punish inefficiency, even at the price of long term risk.

c2h5oh 6y ago

If people are comparing $300 for 0 hours vs $300 for 40+ hours then sure. Try paying them $600 per week. If they see you pay enough for them to afford rent (which is not possible with $300 week) you will have the better offer.

protomyth 6y ago
If they see you pay enough for them to afford rent (which is not possible with $300 week) It is quite possible to pay rent if you make $300 a week in parts of this country. That is why the $15/hour nationally is dumb. Let the locals pick their number for their area.
falcolas 6y ago
$600 a week, when some Montana cities (Bozeman) have apartments in the $1,500 a month range, still isn't much to try and live on.

imtringued 6y ago

That just means your company should go out of business and free up resources for a more productive company. Edit: How does the more productive company survive? Well, there is a "company" down the street creating customers who have $300 per week to spend on things they actually need.

lerchmo 6y ago
Or, if you are able you can move your business to Mexico or China.

LatteLazy 6y ago

No, it's easy, you pay $400 a week.

josephcsible 6y ago
I don't think many people would work for $400 a week when you can get $300 a week by not working.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]