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> reset days I think it's time we admit that a five day work week is counterproductive. Even Google notices this but is probably too big to make that change t

by koch 5y ago

> reset days I think it's time we admit that a five day work week is counterproductive. Even Google notices this but is probably too big to make that change to a shorter work week; the best they can do is "reset days." Smaller companies seem to be doing fine with a shorter week.[1] [1] Buffer comes to mind first, other examples on 4dayweek.io

toomuchtodo 5y ago
In Spain: "Under the plans, an estimated 200 to 400 Spanish companies will voluntarily take part in the project by reducing their employees’ working week to 32 hours while keeping their salaries the same. The government will compensate participating businesses for any higher costs incurred by the changes, such as the need to hire additional staff or to reorganize scheduling and shift patterns. That investment will be financed through Spain’s share of the EU Coronavirus Recovery Fund." https://reasonstobecheerful.world/spain-four-day-work-week-national-government/ https://reasonstobecheerful.world/spain-four-day-work-week-n... (check out the graph "Annual working hours per worker" and see which country has the fewest working hours annually; you might be surprised) And Microsoft Japan: https://www.npr.org/2019/11/04/776163853/microsoft-japan-says-4-day-workweek-boosted-workers-productivity-by-40 https://www.npr.org/2019/11/04/776163853/microsoft-japan-say... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26495933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26495933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21919721 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21919721
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  > The government will compensate participating businesses for any higher costs incurred by the changes, such as the need to hire additional staff This is strange. They're paying companies to hire extra workers so everyone can work fewer hours? Sounds more like a jobs program than anything.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    Sounds like a reasonable accommodation to help pilot a labor regulation to substantially boost everyone's quality of life. Most people work to live, not live to work.
  - throwaway197812 5y ago
    Two birds with one stone? Unemployment in Spain is crazy high.
    - hinkley 5y ago
      Isn’t that the justification France used when they went to 37 hours and aren’t they down to 35 now? Fewer hours means a couple more positions to keep an eye on things, even if productivity doesn’t drop for everyone else.
      - oangemangut 5y ago
        In France this didn't really work, in corporate jobs anyways, people would just work their old hours anyway, which they then take off as 'vacation days' - typically in the vacation periods where there's downtime anyways. Doesn't seem like it's worked to help increase total employment.
        rodelrod 5y ago
        Interacting with companies in several countries, my impression is that many companies in France will hire more people and share knowledge so that the higher-than-average 'vacations days' do not impact business continuity. It's certainly the case in companies that I've worked for. I haven't seen any studies but I'd not be surprised if this translates into an increase in total employment. Another benefit I perceive is that by assuming that people will be absent, companies have higher bus factors by default and the increased resilience that goes with it. And of course, the reduced efficiency that comes hand in hand. I've lived through enough crises to favour resilience.
        hinkley 5y ago
        The protection racket so many of my fellow American programmers euphemistically refer to as job security, - or just unselfconsciously don’t refer to or think about at all - has always left me cold. Occasionally it rises to the level of disgust. One of the important currencies in our industry is trust, and people only trust That Guy grudgingly. Sharing info is often reciprocated, and you have a clearer picture of the whole project. Something very necessary if you ever hope to be in leadership.
  - the_gipsy 5y ago
    Isn't everything a job program?
kyrra 5y ago
Googler, opinions are my own. I don't agree with you. My read on why they keep doing reset days is that "down" time doesn't really exist anymore. When in the office at Google, there are lots of "fun" things that can eat up time. Be it team off-sites (this is a big one for me), office events, fun classes, etc... we don't have those. To me, reset days are making up for people working more due to being at home with fewer outlets to take up their time. I also get the feeling that people are taking way less vacation. Vacation is important to most people's sanity at a company, so reset days help with that as well.
NoPicklez 5y ago
I'm interested to know what the idea is behind it being 4 days, why not 3? Or why not a longer week followed by a shorter week? If we make it a 4 day work week, once it becomes the norm whats to say that people wont want a 3 day work week?
- philmcp 5y ago
  There's a happy medium imo. Output / value vs hours has diminishing returns over time and such: - 4 days != 80% output (it's more like 85%) - 3 days != 60% output (it's more like 70%) I may be biased though as I run https://4dayweek.io/ https://4dayweek.io/ - Software Jobs with a better work life / balance. I wrote about the advantages of a 4 day week (for employers) here: https://4dayweek.io/hire-engineers https://4dayweek.io/hire-engineers
langitbiru 5y ago
Shameless promotion: https://parttime.careers https://parttime.careers I plan to add a feature where you can advertise yourself on this website that you are looking for part-time jobs. How many hours are you willing to work. What skills do you have. You will be able to login using GitHub account. Part-time jobs are getting more popular. Anecdotal case: https://twitter.com/zachcodes/status/1390033250148655111 https://twitter.com/zachcodes/status/1390033250148655111
DocTomoe 5y ago
5 days are fine ... if I can choose which of the five I am working. I'm a big fan of CPGrey's Wednesday concept ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALaTm6VzTBw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALaTm6VzTBw )

by koch 5y ago

toomuchtodo 5y ago

In Spain: "Under the plans, an estimated 200 to 400 Spanish companies will voluntarily take part in the project by reducing their employees’ working week to 32 hours while keeping their salaries the same. The government will compensate participating businesses for any higher costs incurred by the changes, such as the need to hire additional staff or to reorganize scheduling and shift patterns. That investment will be financed through Spain’s share of the EU Coronavirus Recovery Fund." https://reasonstobecheerful.world/spain-four-day-work-week-national-government/ https://reasonstobecheerful.world/spain-four-day-work-week-n... (check out the graph "Annual working hours per worker" and see which country has the fewest working hours annually; you might be surprised) And Microsoft Japan: https://www.npr.org/2019/11/04/776163853/microsoft-japan-says-4-day-workweek-boosted-workers-productivity-by-40 https://www.npr.org/2019/11/04/776163853/microsoft-japan-say... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26495933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26495933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21919721 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21919721

PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> The government will compensate participating businesses for any higher costs incurred by the changes, such as the need to hire additional staff This is strange. They're paying companies to hire extra workers so everyone can work fewer hours? Sounds more like a jobs program than anything.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  Sounds like a reasonable accommodation to help pilot a labor regulation to substantially boost everyone's quality of life. Most people work to live, not live to work.
- throwaway197812 5y ago
  Two birds with one stone? Unemployment in Spain is crazy high.
  - hinkley 5y ago
    Isn’t that the justification France used when they went to 37 hours and aren’t they down to 35 now? Fewer hours means a couple more positions to keep an eye on things, even if productivity doesn’t drop for everyone else.
    - oangemangut 5y ago
      In France this didn't really work, in corporate jobs anyways, people would just work their old hours anyway, which they then take off as 'vacation days' - typically in the vacation periods where there's downtime anyways. Doesn't seem like it's worked to help increase total employment.
      - rodelrod 5y ago
        Interacting with companies in several countries, my impression is that many companies in France will hire more people and share knowledge so that the higher-than-average 'vacations days' do not impact business continuity. It's certainly the case in companies that I've worked for. I haven't seen any studies but I'd not be surprised if this translates into an increase in total employment. Another benefit I perceive is that by assuming that people will be absent, companies have higher bus factors by default and the increased resilience that goes with it. And of course, the reduced efficiency that comes hand in hand. I've lived through enough crises to favour resilience.
        hinkley 5y ago
        The protection racket so many of my fellow American programmers euphemistically refer to as job security, - or just unselfconsciously don’t refer to or think about at all - has always left me cold. Occasionally it rises to the level of disgust. One of the important currencies in our industry is trust, and people only trust That Guy grudgingly. Sharing info is often reciprocated, and you have a clearer picture of the whole project. Something very necessary if you ever hope to be in leadership.
- the_gipsy 5y ago
  Isn't everything a job program?

kyrra 5y ago

Googler, opinions are my own. I don't agree with you. My read on why they keep doing reset days is that "down" time doesn't really exist anymore. When in the office at Google, there are lots of "fun" things that can eat up time. Be it team off-sites (this is a big one for me), office events, fun classes, etc... we don't have those. To me, reset days are making up for people working more due to being at home with fewer outlets to take up their time. I also get the feeling that people are taking way less vacation. Vacation is important to most people's sanity at a company, so reset days help with that as well.

NoPicklez 5y ago

I'm interested to know what the idea is behind it being 4 days, why not 3? Or why not a longer week followed by a shorter week? If we make it a 4 day work week, once it becomes the norm whats to say that people wont want a 3 day work week?

philmcp 5y ago
There's a happy medium imo. Output / value vs hours has diminishing returns over time and such: - 4 days != 80% output (it's more like 85%) - 3 days != 60% output (it's more like 70%) I may be biased though as I run https://4dayweek.io/ https://4dayweek.io/ - Software Jobs with a better work life / balance. I wrote about the advantages of a 4 day week (for employers) here: https://4dayweek.io/hire-engineers https://4dayweek.io/hire-engineers

langitbiru 5y ago

Shameless promotion: https://parttime.careers https://parttime.careers I plan to add a feature where you can advertise yourself on this website that you are looking for part-time jobs. How many hours are you willing to work. What skills do you have. You will be able to login using GitHub account. Part-time jobs are getting more popular. Anecdotal case: https://twitter.com/zachcodes/status/1390033250148655111 https://twitter.com/zachcodes/status/1390033250148655111

DocTomoe 5y ago

5 days are fine ... if I can choose which of the five I am working. I'm a big fan of CPGrey's Wednesday concept ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALaTm6VzTBw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALaTm6VzTBw )