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I suppose calling the American civil war a world war makes sense for a country that calls a baseball tournament the World Series

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Kranar 6y ago
GP didn't call it a world war but rather the first industrialized total war.
hangonhn 6y ago
That's not what GP is saying. His disputing the claim that WWI was the first industrialized total war. Total war is not the same as a world war. Total war is the idea of committing your entire nation to war (economy, population, etc) instead of just the military. His argument that the American Civil War is the first industrialized total war is not novel nor unfounded. It's a position taken by more than a few military historians. Sherman's strategy of destroying the Southern economy is indeed something that was new and would come to characterize many wars in the industrial era and after, including WWI and WWII. Before WWI, there was the Franco-Prussian war and many American Civil War veterans served as advisors to the Prussian army, teaching them the ways of total war, such as shelling Paris, etc.
- jghn 6y ago
  I think often the Crimean War is the one viewed as the template for modern warfare. But this raises a good point that things are always more of a spectrum and the US Civil War had already pushed a few steps in this direction.
  - rsj_hn 6y ago
    US Civil War was also notable for * trench warfare, and "charges" into enemy lines so disastrously repeated in WW1 -- the lessons of the power of repeating rifles had not yet been learned. * the first engagement between two "ironclad" ships https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Merrimack_(1855) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Merrimack_(1855) * an early war that used railroads and telegraphs * the first war that was photographed and had photographic journalism * rifling + minie ball -- the US civil war was the first war using rifled muskets with special grooved bullets that could kill a man a half-mile away (800 meters), often shattering bones. It was the main reason why there were so many amputations. * The gatling gun (predecessor to the maxim gun) was the first machine gun capable of firing a continuous series of rounds without reloading (the innovation was the creation of a belt of bullets that could be fed into the gun). * medical innovations such as anesthetic inhalers, recognizing how to deal with chest wounds, life saving amputations, military ambulances, facial reconstruction surgery were invented in the US civil war (and contributed to much higher survival rates than in the Crimean War) * Aerial reconnaissance (via balloons) * naval torpedoes and naval mines were invented in the US civil war
gumby 6y ago
Perhaps it would be appropriate on that basis but I am not American and have not seen a World Series so did not see the connection. I also did not claim the American civil war was any sort of “world” conflict; I clearly was speaking of the bbc’s myopic claim that it should be considered the first industrialized conflict.
macromagnon 6y ago
Most of the best players in the world end up playing in the mlb so it kind of makes sense.
- eyelidlessness 6y ago
  Not to “well actually” on a sport I don’t really care much about (and might be repeating bad info) but my understanding is that the “world” part is because it includes Canadian team(s?) and therefore is international.
- wink 6y ago
  I think you're missing the fact that in most countries baseball isn't even played at any meaningful level. Bit hard to discover and further any talent if they never even tried the sport.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

Kranar 6y ago

GP didn't call it a world war but rather the first industrialized total war.

hangonhn 6y ago

That's not what GP is saying. His disputing the claim that WWI was the first industrialized total war. Total war is not the same as a world war. Total war is the idea of committing your entire nation to war (economy, population, etc) instead of just the military. His argument that the American Civil War is the first industrialized total war is not novel nor unfounded. It's a position taken by more than a few military historians. Sherman's strategy of destroying the Southern economy is indeed something that was new and would come to characterize many wars in the industrial era and after, including WWI and WWII. Before WWI, there was the Franco-Prussian war and many American Civil War veterans served as advisors to the Prussian army, teaching them the ways of total war, such as shelling Paris, etc.

jghn 6y ago
I think often the Crimean War is the one viewed as the template for modern warfare. But this raises a good point that things are always more of a spectrum and the US Civil War had already pushed a few steps in this direction.
- rsj_hn 6y ago
  US Civil War was also notable for * trench warfare, and "charges" into enemy lines so disastrously repeated in WW1 -- the lessons of the power of repeating rifles had not yet been learned. * the first engagement between two "ironclad" ships https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Merrimack_(1855) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Merrimack_(1855) * an early war that used railroads and telegraphs * the first war that was photographed and had photographic journalism * rifling + minie ball -- the US civil war was the first war using rifled muskets with special grooved bullets that could kill a man a half-mile away (800 meters), often shattering bones. It was the main reason why there were so many amputations. * The gatling gun (predecessor to the maxim gun) was the first machine gun capable of firing a continuous series of rounds without reloading (the innovation was the creation of a belt of bullets that could be fed into the gun). * medical innovations such as anesthetic inhalers, recognizing how to deal with chest wounds, life saving amputations, military ambulances, facial reconstruction surgery were invented in the US civil war (and contributed to much higher survival rates than in the Crimean War) * Aerial reconnaissance (via balloons) * naval torpedoes and naval mines were invented in the US civil war

gumby 6y ago

Perhaps it would be appropriate on that basis but I am not American and have not seen a World Series so did not see the connection. I also did not claim the American civil war was any sort of “world” conflict; I clearly was speaking of the bbc’s myopic claim that it should be considered the first industrialized conflict.

macromagnon 6y ago

Most of the best players in the world end up playing in the mlb so it kind of makes sense.

eyelidlessness 6y ago
Not to “well actually” on a sport I don’t really care much about (and might be repeating bad info) but my understanding is that the “world” part is because it includes Canadian team(s?) and therefore is international.
wink 6y ago
I think you're missing the fact that in most countries baseball isn't even played at any meaningful level. Bit hard to discover and further any talent if they never even tried the sport.