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While people are entitled to their view of the CEO, I find many of the comments doing nothing more than insulting the CEO. As a South Asian, I think there's mo

While people are entitled to their view of the CEO, I find many of the comments doing nothing more than insulting the CEO. As a South Asian, I think there's more meaningful discussion to be had on the "bamboo ceiling" and, in particular, how Chinese collectivist views interact in increasingly global economies. This core tension between the two views isn't going to go away. Perhaps the Eternal September is upon us?

imwillofficial 5y ago
“bamboo ceiling” I hadn’t heard of that one before. Could you expound on it more?
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_ceiling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_ceiling Someone actually did it for you already!
  - imwillofficial 5y ago
    What a useless answer. I wanted his personal experience and understanding of the term. Wikipedia can’t tell me what it means to him and the experiences that informed His understanding.
    - whimsicalism 5y ago
      This wasn't at all clear from your question, where you said you hadn't heard the term before. Needlessly aggressive response.
      - the-dude 5y ago
        I don't get your second sentence either.
        imwillofficial 5y ago
        If you don’t understand something, that’s cool. Ask the person to explain what they mean. Only fucktards get mad at that.
    - colinmhayes 5y ago
      Don't ask stupid questions if you don't want stupid answers?
      - imwillofficial 5y ago
        I’m a firm believer of intellectual curiosity. There is no such thing as a stupid question when asking about somebody’s person journey.
        colinmhayes 5y ago
        You didn't ask about a personal journey. You asked to expand on a concept that has a Wikipedia page.
        imwillofficial 5y ago
        Do you understand what the word expound means? Read again for comprehension.
        whimsicalism 5y ago
        I think it is you who doesn't know what the word expound means.
        imwillofficial 5y ago
        This could go on all day. Something like a glass ceiling often has a subjective experience behind its usage. A story, an anecdote. When you ask somebody to go into more detail on something they have personal experience with, a with, a snide link to wikipedia detracts from the personal discussion and learning that could take place. I read that article on wikipedia already, but I want to hear HIS story. Everyone is different, and there is something to learn from everyone. ex•pound intransitive verb To make a detailed statement. intransitive verb To explain in detail; elucidate.
marcus_holmes 5y ago
I worked as a CEO in SE Asia, and experienced the culture differences first hand. It's very real. It doesn't surprise me that there would be a "bamboo ceiling" in US companies because of the difference in styles. The major one: in the West, the expectation is that everyone will express their opinion and be respected for it, even if their opinion is a minority. If you disagree with the boss, you're expected to say so, even to the point of having an actual argument. In the collectivist view, disagreeing (even privately) with those in authority is a huge no-no. Having an argument with your boss is roughly on a behavioural par with taking a dump on their desk. It's easy to see how a collectivist boss would be criticised by Western colleagues for not allowing free debate or gathering enough opinions on a subject.
- jng 5y ago
  From the article, it seems the problem was that the CEO wasn't authoritarian enough, rather than the other way around. Looking to build consensus, rather than strongly setting direction. But I guess that's also just one piece of the puzzle too.
  - marcus_holmes 5y ago
    I believe the complexity is that because no-one can express disagreement, management there have to be very subtle about creating consensus first, because once a decision is public it can't be changed or disagreed with. I'm not sure, though - I struggled with this and didn't find a solution before I left.
- rasputnik6502 5y ago
  I dont think its a good idea to publicly argue with your boss, even if its a western boss. I dont think they're made of different kind of flesh and psychology works roughly the same way everywhere.
  - sudosteph 5y ago
    It really depends on the boss, the context and what you mean by "public". Voicing a strong disagreement with your direct manager, while in a meeting with your company peers is usually great and builds credibility. So long as you're not concern trolling, a good boss will usually take what you're saying into account and open up the conversation to others to ensure everyone is on the same page. If the boss changes their mind based on the conversation, then you've proven your value and the boss has proven their ability to put the needs of the company over their ego. It's a win-win. If nothing changed, that's fine too, you said your piece, you learned the reasoning behind the decision that was made, and now you have to commit to follow through on the decision your team made. At Amazon, there was a value called "Disagree and Commit", which is pretty much exactly this. I was not used to thinking like that before I worked at AWS (which was many years back now), but I used value all the time to justify voicing concerns that I hadn't been confident enough to voice at previous jobs, and it ended up being really helpful to me professionally - and to the company as well. The thing that really causes issues, is "airing dirty laundry". Ie, don't ever disagree around people outside of the company, don't complain to people above your manager or outside your org and don't gripe on company slack channels if it undermines your superiors.

imwillofficial 5y ago

“bamboo ceiling” I hadn’t heard of that one before. Could you expound on it more?

whimsicalism 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_ceiling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_ceiling Someone actually did it for you already!
- imwillofficial 5y ago
  What a useless answer. I wanted his personal experience and understanding of the term. Wikipedia can’t tell me what it means to him and the experiences that informed His understanding.
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    This wasn't at all clear from your question, where you said you hadn't heard the term before. Needlessly aggressive response.
    - the-dude 5y ago
      I don't get your second sentence either.
      - imwillofficial 5y ago
        If you don’t understand something, that’s cool. Ask the person to explain what they mean. Only fucktards get mad at that.
  - colinmhayes 5y ago
    Don't ask stupid questions if you don't want stupid answers?
    - imwillofficial 5y ago
      I’m a firm believer of intellectual curiosity. There is no such thing as a stupid question when asking about somebody’s person journey.
      - colinmhayes 5y ago
        You didn't ask about a personal journey. You asked to expand on a concept that has a Wikipedia page.
        imwillofficial 5y ago
        Do you understand what the word expound means? Read again for comprehension.
        whimsicalism 5y ago
        I think it is you who doesn't know what the word expound means.
        imwillofficial 5y ago
        This could go on all day. Something like a glass ceiling often has a subjective experience behind its usage. A story, an anecdote. When you ask somebody to go into more detail on something they have personal experience with, a with, a snide link to wikipedia detracts from the personal discussion and learning that could take place. I read that article on wikipedia already, but I want to hear HIS story. Everyone is different, and there is something to learn from everyone. ex•pound intransitive verb To make a detailed statement. intransitive verb To explain in detail; elucidate.

marcus_holmes 5y ago

I worked as a CEO in SE Asia, and experienced the culture differences first hand. It's very real. It doesn't surprise me that there would be a "bamboo ceiling" in US companies because of the difference in styles. The major one: in the West, the expectation is that everyone will express their opinion and be respected for it, even if their opinion is a minority. If you disagree with the boss, you're expected to say so, even to the point of having an actual argument. In the collectivist view, disagreeing (even privately) with those in authority is a huge no-no. Having an argument with your boss is roughly on a behavioural par with taking a dump on their desk. It's easy to see how a collectivist boss would be criticised by Western colleagues for not allowing free debate or gathering enough opinions on a subject.

jng 5y ago
From the article, it seems the problem was that the CEO wasn't authoritarian enough, rather than the other way around. Looking to build consensus, rather than strongly setting direction. But I guess that's also just one piece of the puzzle too.
- marcus_holmes 5y ago
  I believe the complexity is that because no-one can express disagreement, management there have to be very subtle about creating consensus first, because once a decision is public it can't be changed or disagreed with. I'm not sure, though - I struggled with this and didn't find a solution before I left.
rasputnik6502 5y ago
I dont think its a good idea to publicly argue with your boss, even if its a western boss. I dont think they're made of different kind of flesh and psychology works roughly the same way everywhere.
- sudosteph 5y ago
  It really depends on the boss, the context and what you mean by "public". Voicing a strong disagreement with your direct manager, while in a meeting with your company peers is usually great and builds credibility. So long as you're not concern trolling, a good boss will usually take what you're saying into account and open up the conversation to others to ensure everyone is on the same page. If the boss changes their mind based on the conversation, then you've proven your value and the boss has proven their ability to put the needs of the company over their ego. It's a win-win. If nothing changed, that's fine too, you said your piece, you learned the reasoning behind the decision that was made, and now you have to commit to follow through on the decision your team made. At Amazon, there was a value called "Disagree and Commit", which is pretty much exactly this. I was not used to thinking like that before I worked at AWS (which was many years back now), but I used value all the time to justify voicing concerns that I hadn't been confident enough to voice at previous jobs, and it ended up being really helpful to me professionally - and to the company as well. The thing that really causes issues, is "airing dirty laundry". Ie, don't ever disagree around people outside of the company, don't complain to people above your manager or outside your org and don't gripe on company slack channels if it undermines your superiors.