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I get that treadmills can be somewhat dangerous, you are basically building a moving road, but surely we’ve ironed out most of the safety kinks by now, right? T

I get that treadmills can be somewhat dangerous, you are basically building a moving road, but surely we’ve ironed out most of the safety kinks by now, right? Treadmills are an old, understood technology. At this point we really should only be seeing injuries from people who purposefully misuse them, not during normal operation. It’s particularly galling for Peloton, because their gear is already overpriced. Shouldn’t some of that cost go into making sure that it doesn’t rattle itself apart?

sebdufbeau 6y ago
The problems came from the touchscreens loosening, detaching and falling, which I would assume is a fairly new problem in the history of treadmill safety. Edit: main safety issue doesn't seem to be the touchscreens actually
- vnchr 6y ago
  They didn’t include a rear guard so a child was pulled under. They ignore a solved problem for aesthetics.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  I do not believe that Peloton is the first treadmill to use a touchscreen, nor are they the first company to install a touchscreen in a high vibration environment.
- wlonkly 6y ago
  The touchscreen falls off of the lower-end model, the Tread, and the belt problem is on the high-end Tread+. Two separate recalls.
karpierz 6y ago
We have ironed out the kinks, it's just that Peloton decided to remove some of the safety features (IE, a guard at the bottom to stop feet from getting stuck under) to make it look sleeker.
- stagger87 6y ago
  As many other commenters have pointed out, there are a ton of treadmill models that lack these features.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    Seems like a good place for regulatory remediation then.
  - Narretz 6y ago
    But few of them have the ground clearance the Peloton has
barkingcat 6y ago
The technology is well understood, what's not understood is how to use less items on the bill of materials and/or less expensive items on the bill of materials, or to remove items from the well-understood technology until it is cheaper to produce, but also fails in new ways. The push to the bottom impacts every single product/process, doesn't matter if the technology is well understood, there's always another penny to shave off the cost so manufacturer can make more profit.
bitexploder 6y ago
Well, it is amazing to me, after watching the videos of what the Peloton was actually doing, how actually dangerous it looked. The deck is high and the rollers are much larger than normal giving it a lot of torque to suck kids underneath of it. It apparently has no sort of resistance sensors for when the motor is jammed, which kind of blew my mind. In the video where the kid wasn't seriously injured, the treadmill slowly ate the child until the treadmill wedged entirely on top of a large exercise ball, which was enough for the kid to get some space and escape. If that ball had not been there, the treadmill would have climbed on top of them and crushed them. It is ridiculous to me you can't build in a basic safety sensor or fusing mechanism that will blow when the motor hits a certain load at a certain speed or whatever.
- foxyv 6y ago
  You would think for such an expensive device, but then again... Guess they spent all their money on software? Most of the best treadmills I've seen have a disappearing belt with a deck wrapped around the end. Having the belt wrap around the outside seems nuts. Anything could get in there! What's worse is I've seen some other companies trying to follow this example. Maybe the designers decided all the safety junk was too ugly?
  - neffy 6y ago
    If you want to find out why something is being done in a certain way, try not doing it that way.
  - 5cott0 6y ago
    > Guess they spent all their money on software? lol, no https://techcrunch.com/2021/05/05/peloton-bug-account-data-leak/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/05/05/peloton-bug-account-data-l...
  - stjohnswarts 6y ago
    I really don't understand at all. A 1st year mechanical engineering student with a moderate understanding of 3d CAD could had designed a cover that would have completely eliminated thei possibility of this. I think someone at the company probably did and some executive poo-poo'd it. I only have 3d cad for basic modeling skill and an EE and I could have designed it
OnlyOneCannolo 6y ago
It takes institutional knowledge and experience to make a safe and reliable product. Even if you had a whole team dedicated to it, it's not much use if the rest of the company doesn't care or do their part. It also takes money. But why bother protecting the consumer or even the company if you're not legally or financially liable yourself? There's little incentive to do things right. And when there is, most people will only ever learn the hard way.
- DoingIsLearning 6y ago
  > It takes institutional knowledge and experience to make a safe and reliable product. Sorry no. This implies that reviewing the negligent faults in this Design was a difficult task. A basic Hazard and Risk analysis would have flagged this. Even if we ignore the lack of safety guards, I struggle to believe that it is legal to release a consumer product with this much torque without some form of overcurrent/stall/speed detection and safety cut-off.
  - OnlyOneCannolo 6y ago
    I'm re-reading what I wrote, but I still can't see how you inferred that implication. I agree that a hazard analysis should have identified it. But whether it did or didn't, there are still many possible reasons why it wasn't addressed effectively. Hence, a systemic failure. I have no idea if it's legal, but any punishment would probably be on the company rather than the individuals.
    - DoingIsLearning 6y ago
      I read it as if you were implying that identifying this was only attainable with very senior staff, which I disagree. But indeed perhaps I read too much into your comment.
      - OnlyOneCannolo 6y ago
        If anything, it's the opposite. Even if engineering advocates for doing more about the problem, it only takes one manager screw it up. Either everyone has to want an ethical product, or there have to be formal processes to make everyone do the right thing whether they want to or not. Ideally both.
Eric_WVGG 6y ago
Although there have been some reports of loose touchscreens, that has nothing to do with the event that led to this recall. A child got sucked under the device and crushed to death (they weigh in excess of 500 pounds). This isn't due to poor manufacturing, but rather misguided design. I think the issue is not that they're old technology, but that gym equipment should not be shared in household rooms with children or pets. Really the entire category is just heavy as hell by design. Peloton’s whole shtick is normalizing gym equipment at home and they're doing it via silicon valley "move fast and break things" strategy, and here we are.
- luxuryballs 6y ago
  for a moment there I thought well no wonder the kid got killed if he’s 500 pounds!
- bombcar 6y ago
  "The treadmill shouldn't be where kids can get to it" isn't enough of a barrier - as it is not OBVIOUSLY dangerous in the way that power tools or guns are. Same way that kids shouldn't be playing on a stove or dishwasher but it's still required to mount them so that if they DO it doesn't tip and crush them. Especially since the hazard isn't necessary for the operation of the device (such as spinning blades are necessary for table saws, etc).
- joosters 6y ago
  gym equipment should not be shared in household rooms with children or pets. That sounds completely impractical - good luck keeping a child out of a room. Perhaps the devices should be safer, rather than passing the buck from the company to the individuals?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - Eric_WVGG 6y ago
    Yeah, I mean, making the device safer is good. Or if it can't be made safe, consumers with children shouldn't buy them. Either is a valid approach.
jl6 6y ago
Sadly price is an unreliable indicator of quality, because the consumer in general has no idea how much of that price went into build quality and how much went into profit, waste, employees’ salaries, taxes, suppliers, ...
agumonkey 6y ago
beside device-safety, I just realized that for toddlers this was quite dangerous even under normal circumstances.
- sitkack 6y ago
  The optics on stalling on safety when affluent people's kids are getting maimed and killed while they jog off their corporate stress... I can't imagine a hollower place.

sebdufbeau 6y ago

The problems came from the touchscreens loosening, detaching and falling, which I would assume is a fairly new problem in the history of treadmill safety. Edit: main safety issue doesn't seem to be the touchscreens actually

vnchr 6y ago
They didn’t include a rear guard so a child was pulled under. They ignore a solved problem for aesthetics.
ashtonkem 6y ago
I do not believe that Peloton is the first treadmill to use a touchscreen, nor are they the first company to install a touchscreen in a high vibration environment.
wlonkly 6y ago
The touchscreen falls off of the lower-end model, the Tread, and the belt problem is on the high-end Tread+. Two separate recalls.

karpierz 6y ago

We have ironed out the kinks, it's just that Peloton decided to remove some of the safety features (IE, a guard at the bottom to stop feet from getting stuck under) to make it look sleeker.

stagger87 6y ago
As many other commenters have pointed out, there are a ton of treadmill models that lack these features.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  Seems like a good place for regulatory remediation then.
- Narretz 6y ago
  But few of them have the ground clearance the Peloton has

barkingcat 6y ago

The technology is well understood, what's not understood is how to use less items on the bill of materials and/or less expensive items on the bill of materials, or to remove items from the well-understood technology until it is cheaper to produce, but also fails in new ways. The push to the bottom impacts every single product/process, doesn't matter if the technology is well understood, there's always another penny to shave off the cost so manufacturer can make more profit.

bitexploder 6y ago

Well, it is amazing to me, after watching the videos of what the Peloton was actually doing, how actually dangerous it looked. The deck is high and the rollers are much larger than normal giving it a lot of torque to suck kids underneath of it. It apparently has no sort of resistance sensors for when the motor is jammed, which kind of blew my mind. In the video where the kid wasn't seriously injured, the treadmill slowly ate the child until the treadmill wedged entirely on top of a large exercise ball, which was enough for the kid to get some space and escape. If that ball had not been there, the treadmill would have climbed on top of them and crushed them. It is ridiculous to me you can't build in a basic safety sensor or fusing mechanism that will blow when the motor hits a certain load at a certain speed or whatever.

foxyv 6y ago
You would think for such an expensive device, but then again... Guess they spent all their money on software? Most of the best treadmills I've seen have a disappearing belt with a deck wrapped around the end. Having the belt wrap around the outside seems nuts. Anything could get in there! What's worse is I've seen some other companies trying to follow this example. Maybe the designers decided all the safety junk was too ugly?
- neffy 6y ago
  If you want to find out why something is being done in a certain way, try not doing it that way.
- 5cott0 6y ago
  > Guess they spent all their money on software? lol, no https://techcrunch.com/2021/05/05/peloton-bug-account-data-leak/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/05/05/peloton-bug-account-data-l...
- stjohnswarts 6y ago
  I really don't understand at all. A 1st year mechanical engineering student with a moderate understanding of 3d CAD could had designed a cover that would have completely eliminated thei possibility of this. I think someone at the company probably did and some executive poo-poo'd it. I only have 3d cad for basic modeling skill and an EE and I could have designed it

OnlyOneCannolo 6y ago

It takes institutional knowledge and experience to make a safe and reliable product. Even if you had a whole team dedicated to it, it's not much use if the rest of the company doesn't care or do their part. It also takes money. But why bother protecting the consumer or even the company if you're not legally or financially liable yourself? There's little incentive to do things right. And when there is, most people will only ever learn the hard way.

DoingIsLearning 6y ago
> It takes institutional knowledge and experience to make a safe and reliable product. Sorry no. This implies that reviewing the negligent faults in this Design was a difficult task. A basic Hazard and Risk analysis would have flagged this. Even if we ignore the lack of safety guards, I struggle to believe that it is legal to release a consumer product with this much torque without some form of overcurrent/stall/speed detection and safety cut-off.
- OnlyOneCannolo 6y ago
  I'm re-reading what I wrote, but I still can't see how you inferred that implication. I agree that a hazard analysis should have identified it. But whether it did or didn't, there are still many possible reasons why it wasn't addressed effectively. Hence, a systemic failure. I have no idea if it's legal, but any punishment would probably be on the company rather than the individuals.
  - DoingIsLearning 6y ago
    I read it as if you were implying that identifying this was only attainable with very senior staff, which I disagree. But indeed perhaps I read too much into your comment.
    - OnlyOneCannolo 6y ago
      If anything, it's the opposite. Even if engineering advocates for doing more about the problem, it only takes one manager screw it up. Either everyone has to want an ethical product, or there have to be formal processes to make everyone do the right thing whether they want to or not. Ideally both.

Eric_WVGG 6y ago

Although there have been some reports of loose touchscreens, that has nothing to do with the event that led to this recall. A child got sucked under the device and crushed to death (they weigh in excess of 500 pounds). This isn't due to poor manufacturing, but rather misguided design. I think the issue is not that they're old technology, but that gym equipment should not be shared in household rooms with children or pets. Really the entire category is just heavy as hell by design. Peloton’s whole shtick is normalizing gym equipment at home and they're doing it via silicon valley "move fast and break things" strategy, and here we are.

luxuryballs 6y ago
for a moment there I thought well no wonder the kid got killed if he’s 500 pounds!
bombcar 6y ago
"The treadmill shouldn't be where kids can get to it" isn't enough of a barrier - as it is not OBVIOUSLY dangerous in the way that power tools or guns are. Same way that kids shouldn't be playing on a stove or dishwasher but it's still required to mount them so that if they DO it doesn't tip and crush them. Especially since the hazard isn't necessary for the operation of the device (such as spinning blades are necessary for table saws, etc).
joosters 6y ago
gym equipment should not be shared in household rooms with children or pets. That sounds completely impractical - good luck keeping a child out of a room. Perhaps the devices should be safer, rather than passing the buck from the company to the individuals?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Eric_WVGG 6y ago
  Yeah, I mean, making the device safer is good. Or if it can't be made safe, consumers with children shouldn't buy them. Either is a valid approach.

jl6 6y ago

Sadly price is an unreliable indicator of quality, because the consumer in general has no idea how much of that price went into build quality and how much went into profit, waste, employees’ salaries, taxes, suppliers, ...

agumonkey 6y ago

beside device-safety, I just realized that for toddlers this was quite dangerous even under normal circumstances.

sitkack 6y ago
The optics on stalling on safety when affluent people's kids are getting maimed and killed while they jog off their corporate stress... I can't imagine a hollower place.