9 ms·

I am frequently surprised by the number of "dead bedrooms" I know about among friends, and I sincerely believe the problem is the western world's secretly coy p

I am frequently surprised by the number of "dead bedrooms" I know about among friends, and I sincerely believe the problem is the western world's secretly coy perception of sex. There is a superficial surface level that is extremely wrong (for example, Successful people have sex, the most successful people have the hottest sex with the hottest partners; Sex isn't about planning it's about letting the desire overcome you; Doing this thing will make you more desirable to your partner... unless you suck; All people are secretly kinky and the happiest people figured out what makes them tick), and then there is a deeper level of taboo that discourages any honest communication about sex. There is no panacea to this problem because it involves mutual collaboration between both members of the couple. The things that seem to work (couples therapy, self-help books) only actually work because they spark a conversation. Regardless, it always seems to involve rejecting some of those superficial notions I listed above and acknowledging that 90% of the stuff you learned or assumed about sex is wrong. I think this is a very Americanized perspective, though, so I would be especially interested in hearing perspectives from other cultures.

MattGaiser 5y ago
> I am frequently surprised by the number of "dead bedrooms" I know about among friends I originally thought they were mostly an old people thing, but I am hearing more stories about it from friends. And we are mid 20s.
- colanderman 5y ago
  Yep same here (mid 20s-30s). I guess it shouldn't really be too surprising; young people often don't know what they really need and/or are capable of providing before diving headlong into an exclusive relationship.
- schnevets 5y ago
  It was a trend that began in my mid 20s as well. I have also noticed women are more inclined to voice frustrations than my male friends. I guess I became more approachable after proposing to my now-wife (and the things I hear are G-rated compared to the things I hear secondhand from my wife)
- Balgair 5y ago
  One thing to note is that birth-control may decrease libido in some women. The science is a bit mixed though. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201902/the-latest-birth-control-pills-and-women-s-libido https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201902... As for the male side of things, I'm not sure if there is a environmental culprit like birth-control.
  - willcipriano 5y ago
    Antidepressants and antianxiety medications decrease libido as well.
    - robocat 5y ago
      Depression and anxiety usually reduce libido. Edit: Also an unhappy relationship often can lead to poor sex, depression, and anxiety.
      - AnthonyMouse 5y ago
        Sounds like we need to address depression and anxiety with something other than drugs.
        supernovae 5y ago
        Shorter work weeks, universal healthcare, affordable housing, open borders, freedom to travel, less consumerism, more time for friends/family...
        robocat 5y ago
        I thought countries that have most of those things seem to have as many problems with depression and anxiety? And countries without those things perhaps don't? Which are the correlations that actually matter?
        5y ago
- nradov 5y ago
  Exposure to phthalates reduces testosterone in both men and women, and thus lowers sex drive. Phthalates are widely used chemicals, primarily for softening plastic. https://news.umich.edu/reduced-testosterone-tied-to-chemical-exposure/ https://news.umich.edu/reduced-testosterone-tied-to-chemical... That's not the only cause. Increased obesity levels also play a role. Probably other factors.
  - krrrh 5y ago
    Widely and freely available HD porn too. It’s easier than ever for people to use it as a substitute, and it reduces the drive to seduce. It contributes to a downward spiral of satisficing. Edit: Getting downvotes from folks in denial. I’m not making this stuff up, college students rarely used to have ED, now porn-induced ED is quite common. Many such cases! [0] [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5039517/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5039517/
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      I thought porn was supposed to make people into sexual deviants, which is it?
      - proxyon 5y ago
        It reduces the novelty of real sex and thus the arousal for it. Lots of studies on this.
      - jjeaff 5y ago
        A common side effect of porn addiction is that the addict requires more and more extreme situations and stimulus in order to get aroused. So I would say that is sort of turning one into a sexual deviant.
        WalnutBoat 5y ago
        Would love to see any sort of actual studies on this, because I'm fairly confident it's false. The argument at face value is a slippery slope, like "sugar triggers dopamine response in the brain in similar areas as cocaine, so any exposure to sugar eventually leads to someone consuming sugar at all times" I think it's much more likely that people, in general, imprint sexual preferences around the time that they are becoming sexual in their teens, and that doesn't change much as they age. Religion in the US tends to focus on "any exposure to porn makes you an addict," which is why I am assuming this is what you're trying to imply. If you want to play a semantics game "porn addiction is defined as" then I'd argue that the same people are -true- porn addicts at the same rate that people are -true- sugar addicts. So, not saying they don't exist, but are a significantly lower number of the population than US religions would have you believe.
piva00 5y ago
> I think this is a very Americanized perspective, though, so I would be especially interested in hearing perspectives from other cultures. I agree this is very Americanised, I can chime from two different perspectives and cultures: Brazil and Sweden. Brazil is... Very Americanised, I believe that the same issues the USA has with sex are present in Brazil, it's expressed in some different ways but the underlying issues are more-or-less the same. Even though Brazil is seen through a very sexualised image from the outside, it's still a very conservative society where women are shamed for having sex. Now for Sweden: I don't think anything you said really applies here, people are very open about sex, parents just consider it a natural thing and will allow their teenagers to have sex in their house, I heard stories from friends who had breakfast with the parents of a hook up after a night out, etc. There is very little taboo about sex here, even though not everyone is open to talk about it, the vast majority is completely fine with people having sex. Which brings me to a point I don't really grasp how it happens, my sexual experiences here showed me that women suffer some similar issues as the women in Brazil: lots of them don't have good sex, not even with their partners, most of the times not due to a lack of communication but a lack of understanding from men. I've heard from girlfriends similar behaviour from men here as in Brazil, not the aggressive type but the lack of care about their needs, a lack of interest and curiosity in sex itself, to improve it, etc. And then I don't know if this is something global and most men in the world are really that bad sex partners, it was really surprising to hear from Scandinavian women some of the same issues that girlfriends in Brazil went through. Not even counting the abuse, in Brazil it's much more extreme but I was surprised by how many of my girlfriends here had at least one instance of rape or sexual abuse, usually from partners.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  I typically don't talk about it here, but I'd say I've been part of a pretty sexually liberated community (US based) for... about 15 years. Because of our educational focus, we had a high number of new people come through, learn and mature, and then go off to do other things. So I'd like to think I learned something watching the common arcs. In American culture, there are two big hangups about sex: (1) nobody is comfortable admitting ignorance & (2) the former leads to nobody being able to communicate about anything sexual. Essentially every critical sexual conversation is some variant of this: "I'm not sure about X. How do you feel about X?" "I've never tried X. Do you want to try it?" "I'm nervous, but I do. How about if we Y'd and Z'd to start?" "I don't think I'd like Y. What if we Y_1'd and Z'd?" "I'm up for that!" Notice the numerous admissions of ignorance. Because real conversations start in truth, without judgement. And it's worth it, because that's how you get to the fun times. Either in or out of a relationship. (And ironically, you know who is typically comfortable admitting ignorance? Those with the most experience)
bigthymer 5y ago
> I think this is a very Americanized perspective, though, so I would be especially interested in hearing perspectives from other cultures. From my understanding, in Islam, sex is a normal, expected part of marriage. If one partner doesn't want to have sex, it doesn't give the other partner the right to demand it. Rather, if there is a lack of desire for sex, it is grounds for divorce.
- skinnymuch 5y ago
  Understanding of the original intent? Is this a thing in actual marriages of Muslims? I’ve never heard of any of this as a thing that is common knowledge. I could be out of the bubble though.
- Seattle3503 5y ago
  It was the same with the puritans. You had to produce children somehow.
graphtrader 5y ago
I just don't think people value sexual compatibility enough. If you aren't compatible sexually then you are not compatible. I have been married twice. My first wife was practically my "soul mate", we had the same taste in everything. We were best buds, everything was perfect besides our sex life sucked. It always led to conflict and problems. My wife now we have almost nothing in common when it comes to taste, art, music, hobbies, nothing. We have an amazing sex life though. I couldn't be happier. That is not how it works in the movies. I am supposed to meet my first wife and live happily ever after. It is the difference between real life and fiction.
- maest 5y ago
  I think some imortant parameters are: age when you started and ended first marriage, age when you started second marriage, current age. I suspect sexual compatibility lowers in importance as people age.
  - capableweb 5y ago
    The most parameters are: who you are as a person and all that comes with that. Saying that this matters less when that, or you'll loose interest in sex as you grow older simply won't fit for a lot of people. But for a lot maybe it will. But since all of this is such a inherently personal thing, its opinion around the world will be as divided as our own butts.
  - stevenicr 5y ago
    I had thought similar for some years / decades.. the past few years my views on older people having sex / not / alot etc have changed quite a bit. Certainly there are some old couples that stay together without good sex for different reasons, religios beliefs and such... But if you are an intimate couple - that includes sex. If you are not having sex you are just roomates / friends - and there is nothing wrong with that. I know a few different people in thier 70's right now having really great sex because they have found new partners, and because it's great they are having a lot of it. So it could be less important if both people's only goals are stability or other goals - however we are seeing from reports in retirement communities and nursing homes that whether it is the loss of partner through death or divorce or just ageing single into a new community of options - that people are indeed searching for sexual compatibility as they age - often times with many more partners later in life than mid-life.
swiley 5y ago
I used to think this (Americans don't have sex because they're shy about it) but the data says the opposite.
- schnevets 5y ago
  I'm curious about what data suggests this, since getting honest answers about sexual activity from the public is a famously difficult challenge. As an entertaining example, Seth Stephens-Davidowitz's big data book Everybody Lies mentioned a study that asked people in the United States how frequently they had sex, and how frequently they practiced safe sex with a condom. If the resulting data was accurate and projected across the entire country, the United States consume 2.7 billion condoms a year... even though only 600 million condoms are sold in a year. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/06/our-searches-our-selves/529740/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/06/our-searc...
  - inreverse 5y ago
    That seems like it could be an interpretation problem where the definition of sex changes to only include penetrative sex in the context of the safe sex question.
- proxyon 5y ago
  My hypothesis is that Americans are both hypersexual (due to media, porn abuse, etc) and thus deprived of good sex as a result of the over stimulation toward faked, idealized, porn-ified sex. I have no evidence for this, it is merely a hunch and seems to align with what I have heard from people who have moved here from other countries. My parents themselves were immigrants and were shocked at the hypersexuality when they moved here. Simultaneously to that, they were shocked you couldn't even see a boob on TV. The natural human body itself was censored but gigantic fake boobs and butts were plastered all over MTV and VH1, albeit clothed. They'd also never heard of the over emphasis and anxiety over penis size until they came here.
  - muntzy 5y ago
    Cultural views on plastic surgery are critical here. I see a clear contrast between underlying beauty standard assumptions, like “you should look natural” vs “you should look like a sex machine”. both allow for a certain amount of body modification but one of them pushes for a transformation to bodily extremes. With the elevation of hip-hop culture and Kardashian-style ‘upgrades’ i think the US and canada are heading towards a culture where perfectly attractive people get tons of surgery, i think driven by anxious status seeking.
rscho 5y ago
I'll go on a limb assuming you don't have children yet.
- schnevets 5y ago
  I don't. But neither do those friends who speak about sexual incompatibility with the people that they love. Children are a completely new factor that this thread hasn't introduced, and I'm impressed by anyone who can make it work with a toddler. But for the most part, the demographic I'm talking about have no kids, live together, are financially comfortable, enjoy spending time together... and yet don't want to do it for some reason.

MattGaiser 5y ago

> I am frequently surprised by the number of "dead bedrooms" I know about among friends I originally thought they were mostly an old people thing, but I am hearing more stories about it from friends. And we are mid 20s.

colanderman 5y ago
Yep same here (mid 20s-30s). I guess it shouldn't really be too surprising; young people often don't know what they really need and/or are capable of providing before diving headlong into an exclusive relationship.
schnevets 5y ago
It was a trend that began in my mid 20s as well. I have also noticed women are more inclined to voice frustrations than my male friends. I guess I became more approachable after proposing to my now-wife (and the things I hear are G-rated compared to the things I hear secondhand from my wife)
Balgair 5y ago
One thing to note is that birth-control may decrease libido in some women. The science is a bit mixed though. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201902/the-latest-birth-control-pills-and-women-s-libido https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201902... As for the male side of things, I'm not sure if there is a environmental culprit like birth-control.
- willcipriano 5y ago
  Antidepressants and antianxiety medications decrease libido as well.
  - robocat 5y ago
    Depression and anxiety usually reduce libido. Edit: Also an unhappy relationship often can lead to poor sex, depression, and anxiety.
    - AnthonyMouse 5y ago
      Sounds like we need to address depression and anxiety with something other than drugs.
      - supernovae 5y ago
        Shorter work weeks, universal healthcare, affordable housing, open borders, freedom to travel, less consumerism, more time for friends/family...
        robocat 5y ago
        I thought countries that have most of those things seem to have as many problems with depression and anxiety? And countries without those things perhaps don't? Which are the correlations that actually matter?
        5y ago
nradov 5y ago
Exposure to phthalates reduces testosterone in both men and women, and thus lowers sex drive. Phthalates are widely used chemicals, primarily for softening plastic. https://news.umich.edu/reduced-testosterone-tied-to-chemical-exposure/ https://news.umich.edu/reduced-testosterone-tied-to-chemical... That's not the only cause. Increased obesity levels also play a role. Probably other factors.
- krrrh 5y ago
  Widely and freely available HD porn too. It’s easier than ever for people to use it as a substitute, and it reduces the drive to seduce. It contributes to a downward spiral of satisficing. Edit: Getting downvotes from folks in denial. I’m not making this stuff up, college students rarely used to have ED, now porn-induced ED is quite common. Many such cases! [0] [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5039517/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5039517/
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    I thought porn was supposed to make people into sexual deviants, which is it?
    - proxyon 5y ago
      It reduces the novelty of real sex and thus the arousal for it. Lots of studies on this.
    - jjeaff 5y ago
      A common side effect of porn addiction is that the addict requires more and more extreme situations and stimulus in order to get aroused. So I would say that is sort of turning one into a sexual deviant.
      - WalnutBoat 5y ago
        Would love to see any sort of actual studies on this, because I'm fairly confident it's false. The argument at face value is a slippery slope, like "sugar triggers dopamine response in the brain in similar areas as cocaine, so any exposure to sugar eventually leads to someone consuming sugar at all times" I think it's much more likely that people, in general, imprint sexual preferences around the time that they are becoming sexual in their teens, and that doesn't change much as they age. Religion in the US tends to focus on "any exposure to porn makes you an addict," which is why I am assuming this is what you're trying to imply. If you want to play a semantics game "porn addiction is defined as" then I'd argue that the same people are -true- porn addicts at the same rate that people are -true- sugar addicts. So, not saying they don't exist, but are a significantly lower number of the population than US religions would have you believe.

piva00 5y ago

> I think this is a very Americanized perspective, though, so I would be especially interested in hearing perspectives from other cultures. I agree this is very Americanised, I can chime from two different perspectives and cultures: Brazil and Sweden. Brazil is... Very Americanised, I believe that the same issues the USA has with sex are present in Brazil, it's expressed in some different ways but the underlying issues are more-or-less the same. Even though Brazil is seen through a very sexualised image from the outside, it's still a very conservative society where women are shamed for having sex. Now for Sweden: I don't think anything you said really applies here, people are very open about sex, parents just consider it a natural thing and will allow their teenagers to have sex in their house, I heard stories from friends who had breakfast with the parents of a hook up after a night out, etc. There is very little taboo about sex here, even though not everyone is open to talk about it, the vast majority is completely fine with people having sex. Which brings me to a point I don't really grasp how it happens, my sexual experiences here showed me that women suffer some similar issues as the women in Brazil: lots of them don't have good sex, not even with their partners, most of the times not due to a lack of communication but a lack of understanding from men. I've heard from girlfriends similar behaviour from men here as in Brazil, not the aggressive type but the lack of care about their needs, a lack of interest and curiosity in sex itself, to improve it, etc. And then I don't know if this is something global and most men in the world are really that bad sex partners, it was really surprising to hear from Scandinavian women some of the same issues that girlfriends in Brazil went through. Not even counting the abuse, in Brazil it's much more extreme but I was surprised by how many of my girlfriends here had at least one instance of rape or sexual abuse, usually from partners.

ethbr0 5y ago
I typically don't talk about it here, but I'd say I've been part of a pretty sexually liberated community (US based) for... about 15 years. Because of our educational focus, we had a high number of new people come through, learn and mature, and then go off to do other things. So I'd like to think I learned something watching the common arcs. In American culture, there are two big hangups about sex: (1) nobody is comfortable admitting ignorance & (2) the former leads to nobody being able to communicate about anything sexual. Essentially every critical sexual conversation is some variant of this: "I'm not sure about X. How do you feel about X?" "I've never tried X. Do you want to try it?" "I'm nervous, but I do. How about if we Y'd and Z'd to start?" "I don't think I'd like Y. What if we Y_1'd and Z'd?" "I'm up for that!" Notice the numerous admissions of ignorance. Because real conversations start in truth, without judgement. And it's worth it, because that's how you get to the fun times. Either in or out of a relationship. (And ironically, you know who is typically comfortable admitting ignorance? Those with the most experience)

bigthymer 5y ago

> I think this is a very Americanized perspective, though, so I would be especially interested in hearing perspectives from other cultures. From my understanding, in Islam, sex is a normal, expected part of marriage. If one partner doesn't want to have sex, it doesn't give the other partner the right to demand it. Rather, if there is a lack of desire for sex, it is grounds for divorce.

skinnymuch 5y ago
Understanding of the original intent? Is this a thing in actual marriages of Muslims? I’ve never heard of any of this as a thing that is common knowledge. I could be out of the bubble though.
Seattle3503 5y ago
It was the same with the puritans. You had to produce children somehow.

graphtrader 5y ago

I just don't think people value sexual compatibility enough. If you aren't compatible sexually then you are not compatible. I have been married twice. My first wife was practically my "soul mate", we had the same taste in everything. We were best buds, everything was perfect besides our sex life sucked. It always led to conflict and problems. My wife now we have almost nothing in common when it comes to taste, art, music, hobbies, nothing. We have an amazing sex life though. I couldn't be happier. That is not how it works in the movies. I am supposed to meet my first wife and live happily ever after. It is the difference between real life and fiction.

maest 5y ago
I think some imortant parameters are: age when you started and ended first marriage, age when you started second marriage, current age. I suspect sexual compatibility lowers in importance as people age.
- capableweb 5y ago
  The most parameters are: who you are as a person and all that comes with that. Saying that this matters less when that, or you'll loose interest in sex as you grow older simply won't fit for a lot of people. But for a lot maybe it will. But since all of this is such a inherently personal thing, its opinion around the world will be as divided as our own butts.
- stevenicr 5y ago
  I had thought similar for some years / decades.. the past few years my views on older people having sex / not / alot etc have changed quite a bit. Certainly there are some old couples that stay together without good sex for different reasons, religios beliefs and such... But if you are an intimate couple - that includes sex. If you are not having sex you are just roomates / friends - and there is nothing wrong with that. I know a few different people in thier 70's right now having really great sex because they have found new partners, and because it's great they are having a lot of it. So it could be less important if both people's only goals are stability or other goals - however we are seeing from reports in retirement communities and nursing homes that whether it is the loss of partner through death or divorce or just ageing single into a new community of options - that people are indeed searching for sexual compatibility as they age - often times with many more partners later in life than mid-life.

swiley 5y ago

I used to think this (Americans don't have sex because they're shy about it) but the data says the opposite.

schnevets 5y ago
I'm curious about what data suggests this, since getting honest answers about sexual activity from the public is a famously difficult challenge. As an entertaining example, Seth Stephens-Davidowitz's big data book Everybody Lies mentioned a study that asked people in the United States how frequently they had sex, and how frequently they practiced safe sex with a condom. If the resulting data was accurate and projected across the entire country, the United States consume 2.7 billion condoms a year... even though only 600 million condoms are sold in a year. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/06/our-searches-our-selves/529740/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/06/our-searc...
- inreverse 5y ago
  That seems like it could be an interpretation problem where the definition of sex changes to only include penetrative sex in the context of the safe sex question.
proxyon 5y ago
My hypothesis is that Americans are both hypersexual (due to media, porn abuse, etc) and thus deprived of good sex as a result of the over stimulation toward faked, idealized, porn-ified sex. I have no evidence for this, it is merely a hunch and seems to align with what I have heard from people who have moved here from other countries. My parents themselves were immigrants and were shocked at the hypersexuality when they moved here. Simultaneously to that, they were shocked you couldn't even see a boob on TV. The natural human body itself was censored but gigantic fake boobs and butts were plastered all over MTV and VH1, albeit clothed. They'd also never heard of the over emphasis and anxiety over penis size until they came here.
- muntzy 5y ago
  Cultural views on plastic surgery are critical here. I see a clear contrast between underlying beauty standard assumptions, like “you should look natural” vs “you should look like a sex machine”. both allow for a certain amount of body modification but one of them pushes for a transformation to bodily extremes. With the elevation of hip-hop culture and Kardashian-style ‘upgrades’ i think the US and canada are heading towards a culture where perfectly attractive people get tons of surgery, i think driven by anxious status seeking.

rscho 5y ago

I'll go on a limb assuming you don't have children yet.

schnevets 5y ago
I don't. But neither do those friends who speak about sexual incompatibility with the people that they love. Children are a completely new factor that this thread hasn't introduced, and I'm impressed by anyone who can make it work with a toddler. But for the most part, the demographic I'm talking about have no kids, live together, are financially comfortable, enjoy spending time together... and yet don't want to do it for some reason.