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Surely someone in Alphabets leadership understands the damage Google is doing to their brand by only giving projects a few months to "make it big" before pullin

Surely someone in Alphabets leadership understands the damage Google is doing to their brand by only giving projects a few months to "make it big" before pulling the rug out? Look at all the developers who post on here who will not use GCP because of the fear of Google removing or dropping support for important features with no warning!

klodolph 5y ago
I hear this from time to time, but how many people are actually choosing not to use GCP for that reason? Yes, Google keeps killing consumer products (Hangouts is reportedly getting the axe…), but Google Cloud seems to have a much more stable set of services, especially when you look at the core. Things like App Engine have been around forever. Surely Google treats their B2B products and B2C products differently, no?
- alex_anglin 5y ago
  Part of the trouble here is that the Google brand spans their B2B and B2C offerings.
- sova 5y ago
  Hangouts is now read-only for messages to/from phone numbers (as of December 2020 iirc), but you can still message people who are signed in to chat on Gmail. Effectively axed.
- 2pEXgD0fZ5cF 5y ago
  I'd say the fact that Google is the "0 support or human interaction, ever, once you need help with anything, forget it" company does not help either. When it comes to their paid products I hear mixed reports in my circles, some claim that they have good experiences with it. But ultimately the question is: Why risk it?
  - aroman 5y ago
    Virtually anyone who is using google cloud to run their business is surely paying for access to real human interaction. This costs as little as $100/mo for basic support all the way up to dedicated support. I agree with your pout for consumer, but GP is talking about b2b cloud, where google behaves very differently than their general “no there is no customer support” behavior.
- kentonv 5y ago
  > Surely Google treats their B2B products and B2C products differently, no? Apparently not: https://steve-yegge.medium.com/dear-google-cloud-your-deprecation-policy-is-killing-you-ee7525dc05dc https://steve-yegge.medium.com/dear-google-cloud-your-deprec...
  - koheripbal 5y ago
    It's no different than choosing a B2C startup for your company, and then having them go out of business. There are certain core services that I would expect Google to maintain, and others are gambles. It's important to know which is which.
- qris 5y ago
  Google Brass Set 2023 as Deadline to Beat Amazon, Microsoft in Cloud. The Google unit, which sells computing services to big companies, is under pressure from top management to pass Amazon or Microsoft — currently first and second, respectively, in cloud market share — or risk losing funding. Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21815260 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21815260
  - klodolph 5y ago
    Read the top comment—the fact that they are setting deadlines & performance goals does not mean that services are getting shut down.
    - rblatz 5y ago
      But it raises the question in people’s minds. If you are building your company on a cloud platform why would you risk GCP after seeing that?
- intergalplan 5y ago
  I try to isolate and minimize dependencies on Google due to their habit of abruptly banning entire accounts because one of their bots thinks it spotted something slightly odd on a single service that account is using. It's absolutely part of my risk-assessment at work, when selecting which services to use. Their fickle approach to services that aren't ads or search is just part of the problem. > Surely Google treats their B2B products and B2C products differently, no? Not differently enough, and I'm not directing enough of our services spending to Google to find out if that gets us over the line where they won't shit all over us without at least giving us a heads-up. Maybe it would be, maybe not, but why risk it when most of what they offer is far from unique and not much better-priced than alternatives, if at all.
  - syrgian 5y ago
    I have heard anecdotes of them linking accounts together and banning them all at once if one of the algorithms deems you unworthy. Unless you are really splitting them, by using a different IP and browser characteristics for each of them... But then you are very likely to have them banned separately, due to suspicious behavior.
tachyonbeam 5y ago
Are they already pulling out the rug? Seems like the investment they made so far in terms of time, money, hiring must have been massive. If they are killing stadia, that does maybe show that Google lacks "grit". The way they killed Google Plus was kind of stupid. They could have adjusted the formula and made it better, but instead they just gave up on it, it seems. It's like Google doesn't understand that it's normal not to have instant success? Maybe they should make a more active decision that here is a market segment they want to enter, and keep working at it, instead of just trying random things and giving up.
- penagwin 5y ago
  Not officially _yet_ but between the VP leaving and some other signs, it does appear that Stadia isn't likely to last a ton longer.
  - andybak 5y ago
    What will happen to all the "purchases" people made? My immediate thought when Stadia was announced was "I'm never buying games at full price from Google if they are dependent on a service not being cancelled"
    - SirHound 5y ago
      Same - if it were a subscription service I may have tried it out. But knowing how these digital services tend to go and how quickly Google kills its services I was never going to “buy” a game from them.
    - dougmwne 5y ago
      I think the service is amazing and I even pay for GeforceNow and did a Stadia trial. There's no way I was going to spend a dime on content or hardware. It was just too likey to be killed off. By contrast I've spent tons of money on Steam and Oculus stores, so I have no problem buying digital content from a company I have confidence in. Google has seriously hurt their brand and I am always concerned they're going to pull the rug out from me on the ancillary G products I use. Many companies sunset products, but Google has an absolute knack for destroying my consumer confidence.
rajacombinator 5y ago
Surely they don’t or they wouldn’t have developed this reputation in the first place.
BurningFrog 5y ago
I think of all of Google that's not Search & Ads as "side projects" that they do kind of like a hobby. They'd like for them to succeed, but it's nowhere near the focus an org that lives or dies by the project has. So if gaming proves harder than expected, they move on to other fun things.
- philsnow 5y ago
  With the way apple is leaning in terms of making life harder on advertisers, if they were to release a value phone ($200) with all their consumer privacy protections soon after a revelation in the news about how pervasive advertising companies are / how much they know about you, I wonder if it would make a dent in google's only real line of business. I'm probably projecting too much of my own privacy-mindedness onto the general populace, though.
msoad 5y ago
Well said! In contrast to Apple which gives its projects time. Apple Arcade is growing slowly but surely. People who have kids don't mind signing up for it because it makes sense. Apple can iterate on Arcade with their now impressive chip design advantage. They can come to the consoles market at some point. I personally use my Xbox only for FIFA. It's a game that can probably run on M1 with no problem. I don't mind not spending $500 for my next console and have access to my FIFA on my iPhone and Mac
swiley 5y ago
Google grew into the incoherent American corporation long ago and is totally beyond salvaging. Unfortunately their inertia will let them keep steamrolling over people for another century just like GE does.

klodolph 5y ago

I hear this from time to time, but how many people are actually choosing not to use GCP for that reason? Yes, Google keeps killing consumer products (Hangouts is reportedly getting the axe…), but Google Cloud seems to have a much more stable set of services, especially when you look at the core. Things like App Engine have been around forever. Surely Google treats their B2B products and B2C products differently, no?

alex_anglin 5y ago
Part of the trouble here is that the Google brand spans their B2B and B2C offerings.
sova 5y ago
Hangouts is now read-only for messages to/from phone numbers (as of December 2020 iirc), but you can still message people who are signed in to chat on Gmail. Effectively axed.
2pEXgD0fZ5cF 5y ago
I'd say the fact that Google is the "0 support or human interaction, ever, once you need help with anything, forget it" company does not help either. When it comes to their paid products I hear mixed reports in my circles, some claim that they have good experiences with it. But ultimately the question is: Why risk it?
- aroman 5y ago
  Virtually anyone who is using google cloud to run their business is surely paying for access to real human interaction. This costs as little as $100/mo for basic support all the way up to dedicated support. I agree with your pout for consumer, but GP is talking about b2b cloud, where google behaves very differently than their general “no there is no customer support” behavior.
kentonv 5y ago
> Surely Google treats their B2B products and B2C products differently, no? Apparently not: https://steve-yegge.medium.com/dear-google-cloud-your-deprecation-policy-is-killing-you-ee7525dc05dc https://steve-yegge.medium.com/dear-google-cloud-your-deprec...
- koheripbal 5y ago
  It's no different than choosing a B2C startup for your company, and then having them go out of business. There are certain core services that I would expect Google to maintain, and others are gambles. It's important to know which is which.
qris 5y ago
Google Brass Set 2023 as Deadline to Beat Amazon, Microsoft in Cloud. The Google unit, which sells computing services to big companies, is under pressure from top management to pass Amazon or Microsoft — currently first and second, respectively, in cloud market share — or risk losing funding. Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21815260 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21815260
- klodolph 5y ago
  Read the top comment—the fact that they are setting deadlines & performance goals does not mean that services are getting shut down.
  - rblatz 5y ago
    But it raises the question in people’s minds. If you are building your company on a cloud platform why would you risk GCP after seeing that?
intergalplan 5y ago
I try to isolate and minimize dependencies on Google due to their habit of abruptly banning entire accounts because one of their bots thinks it spotted something slightly odd on a single service that account is using. It's absolutely part of my risk-assessment at work, when selecting which services to use. Their fickle approach to services that aren't ads or search is just part of the problem. > Surely Google treats their B2B products and B2C products differently, no? Not differently enough, and I'm not directing enough of our services spending to Google to find out if that gets us over the line where they won't shit all over us without at least giving us a heads-up. Maybe it would be, maybe not, but why risk it when most of what they offer is far from unique and not much better-priced than alternatives, if at all.
- syrgian 5y ago
  I have heard anecdotes of them linking accounts together and banning them all at once if one of the algorithms deems you unworthy. Unless you are really splitting them, by using a different IP and browser characteristics for each of them... But then you are very likely to have them banned separately, due to suspicious behavior.

tachyonbeam 5y ago

Are they already pulling out the rug? Seems like the investment they made so far in terms of time, money, hiring must have been massive. If they are killing stadia, that does maybe show that Google lacks "grit". The way they killed Google Plus was kind of stupid. They could have adjusted the formula and made it better, but instead they just gave up on it, it seems. It's like Google doesn't understand that it's normal not to have instant success? Maybe they should make a more active decision that here is a market segment they want to enter, and keep working at it, instead of just trying random things and giving up.

penagwin 5y ago
Not officially _yet_ but between the VP leaving and some other signs, it does appear that Stadia isn't likely to last a ton longer.
- andybak 5y ago
  What will happen to all the "purchases" people made? My immediate thought when Stadia was announced was "I'm never buying games at full price from Google if they are dependent on a service not being cancelled"
  - SirHound 5y ago
    Same - if it were a subscription service I may have tried it out. But knowing how these digital services tend to go and how quickly Google kills its services I was never going to “buy” a game from them.
  - dougmwne 5y ago
    I think the service is amazing and I even pay for GeforceNow and did a Stadia trial. There's no way I was going to spend a dime on content or hardware. It was just too likey to be killed off. By contrast I've spent tons of money on Steam and Oculus stores, so I have no problem buying digital content from a company I have confidence in. Google has seriously hurt their brand and I am always concerned they're going to pull the rug out from me on the ancillary G products I use. Many companies sunset products, but Google has an absolute knack for destroying my consumer confidence.

rajacombinator 5y ago

Surely they don’t or they wouldn’t have developed this reputation in the first place.

BurningFrog 5y ago

I think of all of Google that's not Search & Ads as "side projects" that they do kind of like a hobby. They'd like for them to succeed, but it's nowhere near the focus an org that lives or dies by the project has. So if gaming proves harder than expected, they move on to other fun things.

philsnow 5y ago
With the way apple is leaning in terms of making life harder on advertisers, if they were to release a value phone ($200) with all their consumer privacy protections soon after a revelation in the news about how pervasive advertising companies are / how much they know about you, I wonder if it would make a dent in google's only real line of business. I'm probably projecting too much of my own privacy-mindedness onto the general populace, though.

msoad 5y ago

Well said! In contrast to Apple which gives its projects time. Apple Arcade is growing slowly but surely. People who have kids don't mind signing up for it because it makes sense. Apple can iterate on Arcade with their now impressive chip design advantage. They can come to the consoles market at some point. I personally use my Xbox only for FIFA. It's a game that can probably run on M1 with no problem. I don't mind not spending $500 for my next console and have access to my FIFA on my iPhone and Mac

swiley 5y ago

Google grew into the incoherent American corporation long ago and is totally beyond salvaging. Unfortunately their inertia will let them keep steamrolling over people for another century just like GE does.