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Aaah I was going to post that :D! It stars one of my favorite comedic actors, Benoît Poelvoorde who is belgian. I'd encourage anyone with a taste for foreign

Aaah I was going to post that :D! It stars one of my favorite comedic actors, Benoît Poelvoorde who is belgian. I'd encourage anyone with a taste for foreign films to check out "C'est arrivé près de chez vous" (Man Bites Dog in english) another great movie of his (features lots of violence and serious themes, not a family movie).

smnrchrds 6y ago
> Benoît Poelvoorde It looks like a very French first name and a very Dutch last name. Is that common in Belgium? Is there a significant overlap between the linguistic communities of Belgium?
- ddnb 6y ago
  Yes there is, another example: Jean-Claude Van Cauwenberghe is a Walloon politician, Geert Bourgeois is a Flemish one.
  - lovemenot 5y ago
    Let's not forget Benoit Mandelbrot, who may have discovered fractals while staring at a map of the Belgian border.
- cinntaile 6y ago
  It depends on what you mean. There is no significant linguistic overlap. There are some exceptions such as if you live near the language border. But last names ending up in the other side of the country is not that uncommon, people move around and some end up getting kids there.
- gillesjacobs 6y ago
  There's a significant overlap in naming and there's a lot of professional language contact. But culturally and politically, the linguistic communities are divided.
- sjrd 6y ago
  Those combinations are indeed quite common in Belgium. Another example: myself :-p (Sébastien Doeraene).
  - smnrchrds 6y ago
    If I may ask, what is the story behind your name? For example, is one of your parents francophone and the other one Dutch? Do you speak both languages natively?
    - cinntaile 6y ago
      Very few people in Belgium speak both French and Flemish natively. It's one or the other, depending on which side of the language border you live on. In Flanders you have compulsory French classes while in Wallonia you don't have compulsory Flemish classes, but the compulsory classes don't get you anywhere near native proficiency. His last name doesn't sound very Flemish so his ancestors probably moved to Wallonia at least a few generations back. To me it even sounds like a Flemish version of a French name. The parent should correct me if I'm mistaken of course, deducting where someone is from based on their last or first name can be quite tricky in my experience.
      - NicoJuicy 5y ago
        I don't agree. My French is good enough for talking to French canadians ( native dutch). And even french have trouble understanding the Quebec language. Some that learned it never use it, so they forget it though. But they don't need it professionally.
        cinntaile 5y ago
        Good enough is not even close to native though. He was wondering about native.
        NicoJuicy 5y ago
        Well, he was saying: > but the compulsory classes don't get you anywhere near native proficiency. And my proficiency is good enough work related and when I meet people. With no issues. What more would i need?
- hinkley 6y ago
  Sometimes it’s collectively referred to as Benelux, so a name that would fit in the Netherlands does not surprise me. It does throw me when some documentary interviews a Frenchman with a very German last name. Until I find out he lives in Alsace. That area traded hands so many times. There are some French names on the other side of the border too, I’m told. And isn’t “Austria” just a mistranslation of the German for “The outer lands”? But we don’t talk about that any more. Not since The War.
  - karatinversion 6y ago
    "Eastern realm", actually. Wikipedia has some details - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria#Etymology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria#Etymology
  - csunbird 6y ago
    Österreich - The Eastern Empire (my limited german) Ost - East Öster - To the east, easter - relative to something Reich - Empire
    - Bayart 5y ago
      Reich has a broader meaning, similar to "realm" in English.
      - csunbird 5y ago
        I thought “Empire” translation would suit here, although I am not a native speaker. Realm should fit as well.
  - jaeh 5y ago
    During the second world war, Austria was called "Ostmark", not österreich. And yes, "we do not talk about that" since the war ended, the Myth that we were the "First Victim of the Nazis" still perpetuates, at least in the Generation of my Grandmother (who is 94). The only austrian resistance when the nazis entered in 1938 was a Group of International Brigades that had returned from the spanish Civil War and they all got slaughtered. You likely will not find that in a lot of history books either, somehow the ~80.000 international Volunteers of the Civil War in Spain are rarely mentioned anywhere. No Pasaran!
- zinclozenge 6y ago
  It's kind of a meme in Belgium that flemish people have french last names and walloons have dutch last names.
- TacticalCoder 6y ago
  > Is that common in Belgium? Jean-Claude Van Varenberg (the real name of Jean-Claude Van Damme). It is incredibly common. I've got many several french speaking belgian friends, with a french name but a dutch family name. > Is there a significant overlap between the linguistic communities of Belgium? I would say not anywhere near what the name / family names may suggest. The north/south separation in Belgium is quite clear and although mixed french/flemish couples are by not means rare, I'd say the overlap is still not huge. Even in Brussels native flemish speaking people are only 6% of the population.
- markvdb 6y ago
  I initially started writing half an encyclopedia here, but I scrapped that. Some random bits: - There's rather limited contact between the linguistic communities of Belgium. - Knowledge of nl is generally extremely limited in Wallonia. I have a feeling it's improving a bit, even if nl is not obligatory in education there. - Knowledge of fr is clearly worsening with the youngest generation in Flanders, even if fr is obligatory in education there. - Mixed nl/fr work environments used to be fr. - Friends from outside Belgium often tell me they notice absurd humor as a common trait. - Lots of interesting things to say about language community history too. Long story short, the language border hardly moved the last few hundred years, except for Brussels turning majority nl-> fr in the last ~100 years [0]. - Did you know Belgium has large ar, ber, de (official language!), it, ku, ln and tr communities too? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francization_of_Brussels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francization_of_Brussels P.S. If you like Poelvoorde, watch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brand_New_Testament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brand_New_Testament .
  - smnrchrds 5y ago
    Thank you for this information. What are ber, ln, and ku?
    - anticensor 5y ago
      ber: Berber ln: Bantu Lingala ku: Kurdish
  - ghaff 5y ago
    In a prior life (i.e. 25 years or so ago), I was in Brussels for a work event where there were various speeches. The way it worked is that you either spoke English or you spoke alternating French/Flemish.
    - glandium 5y ago
      20 years or so ago, I went to the movies in Brussels. A movie in English with subtitles. Both in French and Flemish at the same time, and in many cases the subtitles were taking close to half the height, it was ridiculous.
- NicoJuicy 5y ago
  A lot of people in the north of france spoke Dutch/were Belgian. Some old people in french speaking still speak dialect dutch. Not the "new" generation. French Flanders: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Flanders https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Flanders Additionally, Wallonië is also french speaking and not dutch. So my guess is that it's pretty common ;)
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- vimy 5y ago
  When Flanders was poor a lot of Flemings moved to Wallonia, at the time it was the wealthy part of Belgium, to find work. They stayed and their kids grew up learning French and then their kids did as well, only their last names reminding them of where their ancestors came from.
- Mvandenbergh 5y ago
  Yes, specifically it's more common that way around than the other due to the large influx of Flemish workers who moved to the coal and iron regions in Wallonia during the industrial revolution. Most people with FR first name and Dutch last name are Walloons who probably do not speak Flemish.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  That's also common in the Netherlands and even Germany. French first names are simply popular all throughout Europe (ditto Italian and English names).
- Bayart 5y ago
  A lot of Flemish folks migrated to French speaking areas back in the days because of the mines. Belgian mines powered the industrial revolution, which explains a lot of the British involvement and Belgium's historically awkward international status.
- agumonkey 5y ago
  talking about dutch-belgian-french, I recently got into Dick Annegarn His first album "Sacre Geranium" is a strange kind of masterpiece. Naive, comical, poetic, and strangely complex musically at the same time (all that mostly as a solo acoustic guitar voice act) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx4Au2Tchqw&list=OLAK5uy_kBImZc9ipcCgBuyX8zQEgA-UkXAC08w1c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx4Au2Tchqw&list=OLAK5uy_kBI...
csours 6y ago
Maybe I was the only one confused but "C'est arrivé près de chez vous" means 'It Happened Near Your Home'. The movie was released in English as "Man Bites Dog"
- gryn 5y ago
  it's very common to give unrelated titles to films when translating them, for some reason. some times the 'local' title for films that are in English get another unrelated English title.
  - gerdesj 5y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_bites_dog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_bites_dog is a fictitious newspaper headline. However I'm pretty sure I've seen it used, tongue in cheek.
speedgoose 6y ago
Wikipedia says that they removed the woman rape and the kid murder scenes on the American version, 30 years ago. I don't know if people would appreciate such a movie today.
- capableweb 6y ago
  > I don't know if people would appreciate such a movie today I'm fairly certain most people outside of the north-american-cancel bubble know how to separate fantasy from reality, so while maybe hard to watch, there won't be any uproar. Edit: judging by the downvotes, HN is not outside that bubble, my mistake
  - sellyme 5y ago
    Alternatively perhaps people on HN are simply aware that the most popular TV show in the last decade was a fantasy show with similar themes produced in North America, which renders your criticism somewhat nonsensical.
- cinntaile 6y ago
  Not everyone prefers to watch mainstream movies. This movie was never mainstream and themes like this haven't faded out or anything.
- ad404b8a372f2b9 6y ago
  Game Of Thrones has rape, child murder, and torture. I think it'd do fine in that respect.
  - speedgoose 5y ago
    True. It doesn't feel the same though. Maybe because it's a fake documentary where the filming crew participates in the rape / murders. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx8MHwRLkMc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx8MHwRLkMc
- orwin 5y ago
  It was honestly both disturbing and funny. Nowadays, it is just funny, since everybody have seen worse in their favorite tv show.
aasasd 6y ago
Searching the web immediately turns up: > Man Bites Dog is an intensely disturbing movie that, despite having frequent moments of dark humor, is shockingly violent and very difficult to watch. With 74% on RT, which is pretty good. I already have conflicting emotions from this. The descriptions evoke the spirit of Bret Easton Ellis' stuff. What I've seen of French film violence tends to be cinematic in an off-putting way, but perhaps that's only post-2000s explosion of movie tricks.
- shirleyquirk 6y ago
  Man bites dog is amazing, a noir mockumentary american psycho.
  - aasasd 6y ago
    Ellis' ‘Glamorama’ actually has a film crew following the protagonist. However that book is difficult to comprehend (sorta in the 70s/80s transgression-surrealism way), so I'm still not sure what the crew actually does, if anything.
- ad404b8a372f2b9 6y ago
  The quote is overstating it IMO. Maybe for its time it was shocking but if you compare it to game of thrones for example, which has rape scenes, torture and murder it's nothing to write home about in its depiction of those. I watched it as a teen with my family and it didn't shock me in the least. It's serious but not traumatizing.
  - dudul 5y ago
    I actually think it is easier to watch as a teen 5han an adult. I watched it a lot with my buddies when I was younger, it was one of our cult movies. Today, as an adult and a dad I dont know if I could watch the kid murder scene.
    - _carbyau_ 5y ago
      I certainly noticed that fatherhood brought an emotional exploit that various stories like to push in different ways. Sometimes well, sometimes poorly, as with all stories.

smnrchrds 6y ago

> Benoît Poelvoorde It looks like a very French first name and a very Dutch last name. Is that common in Belgium? Is there a significant overlap between the linguistic communities of Belgium?

ddnb 6y ago
Yes there is, another example: Jean-Claude Van Cauwenberghe is a Walloon politician, Geert Bourgeois is a Flemish one.
- lovemenot 5y ago
  Let's not forget Benoit Mandelbrot, who may have discovered fractals while staring at a map of the Belgian border.
cinntaile 6y ago
It depends on what you mean. There is no significant linguistic overlap. There are some exceptions such as if you live near the language border. But last names ending up in the other side of the country is not that uncommon, people move around and some end up getting kids there.
gillesjacobs 6y ago
There's a significant overlap in naming and there's a lot of professional language contact. But culturally and politically, the linguistic communities are divided.
sjrd 6y ago
Those combinations are indeed quite common in Belgium. Another example: myself :-p (Sébastien Doeraene).
- smnrchrds 6y ago
  If I may ask, what is the story behind your name? For example, is one of your parents francophone and the other one Dutch? Do you speak both languages natively?
  - cinntaile 6y ago
    Very few people in Belgium speak both French and Flemish natively. It's one or the other, depending on which side of the language border you live on. In Flanders you have compulsory French classes while in Wallonia you don't have compulsory Flemish classes, but the compulsory classes don't get you anywhere near native proficiency. His last name doesn't sound very Flemish so his ancestors probably moved to Wallonia at least a few generations back. To me it even sounds like a Flemish version of a French name. The parent should correct me if I'm mistaken of course, deducting where someone is from based on their last or first name can be quite tricky in my experience.
    - NicoJuicy 5y ago
      I don't agree. My French is good enough for talking to French canadians ( native dutch). And even french have trouble understanding the Quebec language. Some that learned it never use it, so they forget it though. But they don't need it professionally.
      - cinntaile 5y ago
        Good enough is not even close to native though. He was wondering about native.
        NicoJuicy 5y ago
        Well, he was saying: > but the compulsory classes don't get you anywhere near native proficiency. And my proficiency is good enough work related and when I meet people. With no issues. What more would i need?
hinkley 6y ago
Sometimes it’s collectively referred to as Benelux, so a name that would fit in the Netherlands does not surprise me. It does throw me when some documentary interviews a Frenchman with a very German last name. Until I find out he lives in Alsace. That area traded hands so many times. There are some French names on the other side of the border too, I’m told. And isn’t “Austria” just a mistranslation of the German for “The outer lands”? But we don’t talk about that any more. Not since The War.
- karatinversion 6y ago
  "Eastern realm", actually. Wikipedia has some details - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria#Etymology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria#Etymology
- csunbird 6y ago
  Österreich - The Eastern Empire (my limited german) Ost - East Öster - To the east, easter - relative to something Reich - Empire
  - Bayart 5y ago
    Reich has a broader meaning, similar to "realm" in English.
    - csunbird 5y ago
      I thought “Empire” translation would suit here, although I am not a native speaker. Realm should fit as well.
- jaeh 5y ago
  During the second world war, Austria was called "Ostmark", not österreich. And yes, "we do not talk about that" since the war ended, the Myth that we were the "First Victim of the Nazis" still perpetuates, at least in the Generation of my Grandmother (who is 94). The only austrian resistance when the nazis entered in 1938 was a Group of International Brigades that had returned from the spanish Civil War and they all got slaughtered. You likely will not find that in a lot of history books either, somehow the ~80.000 international Volunteers of the Civil War in Spain are rarely mentioned anywhere. No Pasaran!
zinclozenge 6y ago
It's kind of a meme in Belgium that flemish people have french last names and walloons have dutch last names.
TacticalCoder 6y ago
> Is that common in Belgium? Jean-Claude Van Varenberg (the real name of Jean-Claude Van Damme). It is incredibly common. I've got many several french speaking belgian friends, with a french name but a dutch family name. > Is there a significant overlap between the linguistic communities of Belgium? I would say not anywhere near what the name / family names may suggest. The north/south separation in Belgium is quite clear and although mixed french/flemish couples are by not means rare, I'd say the overlap is still not huge. Even in Brussels native flemish speaking people are only 6% of the population.
markvdb 6y ago
I initially started writing half an encyclopedia here, but I scrapped that. Some random bits: - There's rather limited contact between the linguistic communities of Belgium. - Knowledge of nl is generally extremely limited in Wallonia. I have a feeling it's improving a bit, even if nl is not obligatory in education there. - Knowledge of fr is clearly worsening with the youngest generation in Flanders, even if fr is obligatory in education there. - Mixed nl/fr work environments used to be fr. - Friends from outside Belgium often tell me they notice absurd humor as a common trait. - Lots of interesting things to say about language community history too. Long story short, the language border hardly moved the last few hundred years, except for Brussels turning majority nl-> fr in the last ~100 years [0]. - Did you know Belgium has large ar, ber, de (official language!), it, ku, ln and tr communities too? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francization_of_Brussels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francization_of_Brussels P.S. If you like Poelvoorde, watch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brand_New_Testament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brand_New_Testament .
- smnrchrds 5y ago
  Thank you for this information. What are ber, ln, and ku?
  - anticensor 5y ago
    ber: Berber ln: Bantu Lingala ku: Kurdish
- ghaff 5y ago
  In a prior life (i.e. 25 years or so ago), I was in Brussels for a work event where there were various speeches. The way it worked is that you either spoke English or you spoke alternating French/Flemish.
  - glandium 5y ago
    20 years or so ago, I went to the movies in Brussels. A movie in English with subtitles. Both in French and Flemish at the same time, and in many cases the subtitles were taking close to half the height, it was ridiculous.
NicoJuicy 5y ago
A lot of people in the north of france spoke Dutch/were Belgian. Some old people in french speaking still speak dialect dutch. Not the "new" generation. French Flanders: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Flanders https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Flanders Additionally, Wallonië is also french speaking and not dutch. So my guess is that it's pretty common ;)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
vimy 5y ago
When Flanders was poor a lot of Flemings moved to Wallonia, at the time it was the wealthy part of Belgium, to find work. They stayed and their kids grew up learning French and then their kids did as well, only their last names reminding them of where their ancestors came from.
Mvandenbergh 5y ago
Yes, specifically it's more common that way around than the other due to the large influx of Flemish workers who moved to the coal and iron regions in Wallonia during the industrial revolution. Most people with FR first name and Dutch last name are Walloons who probably do not speak Flemish.
jacquesm 5y ago
That's also common in the Netherlands and even Germany. French first names are simply popular all throughout Europe (ditto Italian and English names).
Bayart 5y ago
A lot of Flemish folks migrated to French speaking areas back in the days because of the mines. Belgian mines powered the industrial revolution, which explains a lot of the British involvement and Belgium's historically awkward international status.
agumonkey 5y ago
talking about dutch-belgian-french, I recently got into Dick Annegarn His first album "Sacre Geranium" is a strange kind of masterpiece. Naive, comical, poetic, and strangely complex musically at the same time (all that mostly as a solo acoustic guitar voice act) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx4Au2Tchqw&list=OLAK5uy_kBImZc9ipcCgBuyX8zQEgA-UkXAC08w1c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx4Au2Tchqw&list=OLAK5uy_kBI...

csours 6y ago

Maybe I was the only one confused but "C'est arrivé près de chez vous" means 'It Happened Near Your Home'. The movie was released in English as "Man Bites Dog"

gryn 5y ago
it's very common to give unrelated titles to films when translating them, for some reason. some times the 'local' title for films that are in English get another unrelated English title.
- gerdesj 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_bites_dog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_bites_dog is a fictitious newspaper headline. However I'm pretty sure I've seen it used, tongue in cheek.

speedgoose 6y ago

Wikipedia says that they removed the woman rape and the kid murder scenes on the American version, 30 years ago. I don't know if people would appreciate such a movie today.

capableweb 6y ago
> I don't know if people would appreciate such a movie today I'm fairly certain most people outside of the north-american-cancel bubble know how to separate fantasy from reality, so while maybe hard to watch, there won't be any uproar. Edit: judging by the downvotes, HN is not outside that bubble, my mistake
- sellyme 5y ago
  Alternatively perhaps people on HN are simply aware that the most popular TV show in the last decade was a fantasy show with similar themes produced in North America, which renders your criticism somewhat nonsensical.
cinntaile 6y ago
Not everyone prefers to watch mainstream movies. This movie was never mainstream and themes like this haven't faded out or anything.
ad404b8a372f2b9 6y ago
Game Of Thrones has rape, child murder, and torture. I think it'd do fine in that respect.
- speedgoose 5y ago
  True. It doesn't feel the same though. Maybe because it's a fake documentary where the filming crew participates in the rape / murders. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx8MHwRLkMc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx8MHwRLkMc
orwin 5y ago
It was honestly both disturbing and funny. Nowadays, it is just funny, since everybody have seen worse in their favorite tv show.

aasasd 6y ago

Searching the web immediately turns up: > Man Bites Dog is an intensely disturbing movie that, despite having frequent moments of dark humor, is shockingly violent and very difficult to watch. With 74% on RT, which is pretty good. I already have conflicting emotions from this. The descriptions evoke the spirit of Bret Easton Ellis' stuff. What I've seen of French film violence tends to be cinematic in an off-putting way, but perhaps that's only post-2000s explosion of movie tricks.

shirleyquirk 6y ago
Man bites dog is amazing, a noir mockumentary american psycho.
- aasasd 6y ago
  Ellis' ‘Glamorama’ actually has a film crew following the protagonist. However that book is difficult to comprehend (sorta in the 70s/80s transgression-surrealism way), so I'm still not sure what the crew actually does, if anything.
ad404b8a372f2b9 6y ago
The quote is overstating it IMO. Maybe for its time it was shocking but if you compare it to game of thrones for example, which has rape scenes, torture and murder it's nothing to write home about in its depiction of those. I watched it as a teen with my family and it didn't shock me in the least. It's serious but not traumatizing.
- dudul 5y ago
  I actually think it is easier to watch as a teen 5han an adult. I watched it a lot with my buddies when I was younger, it was one of our cult movies. Today, as an adult and a dad I dont know if I could watch the kid murder scene.
  - _carbyau_ 5y ago
    I certainly noticed that fatherhood brought an emotional exploit that various stories like to push in different ways. Sometimes well, sometimes poorly, as with all stories.