13 ms·

It's mostly about the emotional attachment. If you find two identical pens, and one of them was used by a famous writer, you would expect a price difference. T

by qw 5y ago

It's mostly about the emotional attachment. If you find two identical pens, and one of them was used by a famous writer, you would expect a price difference. There is no difference in the quality of those pens. They both work the same, and using the writer's pen will not make you a better writer by itself. I personally would not buy a natural diamond because of the ethical issues, but I do understand the students who feel there is a difference.

Nursie 5y ago
That's a good point, the difference doesn't have to be in the item itself, BUT - Does anyone, other than geologists of course, really care about the back-story of the diamond, how it was created and how it was mined? Or are they just hanging on to an idea that some of them are "real" and some "not real" for the purposes of social signalling? If the latter, I would consider this much more changeable over time.
- coddle-hark 5y ago
  > Does anyone, other than geologists of course, really care about the back-story of the diamond, how it was created and how it was mined? Yes, very much so, as is the case with all lifestyle products. People want to believe that they’re buying something special.
  - Nursie 5y ago
    Really? I've never met anyone that talked about it at all. Maybe I don't have conversations about diamonds very often, but people only ever seemed concerned that they were 'real', and latterly that they were conflict-free. > People want to believe that they’re buying something special. What if it turns out they're not?
    - alfiedotwtf 5y ago
      Jewelers provide certifications when buying diamonds. They'd be a) on the hook if they sold counterfeit products, and b) they wouldn't be able to sell anymore because of a tarnished brand.
      - shawnz 5y ago
        I don't think the suggestion is that they'd sell counterfeits. The suggestion is that even the real thing has no special differentiating properties. The authenticity certificate is just a tool to achieve better signaling, nobody cares what it says as long as it says "authentic".
      - Nursie 5y ago
        What I meant was what if it turns out diamonds are not special after all? Lab grown diamonds are diamonds. Whether one comes out of the ground or from a lab, maybe they aren’t that special.
        alfiedotwtf 5y ago
        Ah. A lot of economists have argued that the "value" of something is based on the labor cost of production. So given that viewpoint, mined diamonds would be worth more than lab ones, even if they were identical in every way (yes, I also think this is silly, but that's what the market's indicating even today).
        Nursie 5y ago
        I'm pretty sure that doesn't really apply in such a massively manipulated market! (And yes, those economists would tend to get laughed out of the room these days)
    - ZephyrBlu 5y ago
      > What if it turns out they're not? Buyers remorse or post-rationalization.
  - humanrebar 5y ago
    Someone should pay celebrities to wear specific jewelry with lab created stones to galas and awards ceremonies. Then resell the pieces, or even just the stones, at a premium since they were worn by <insert story here>. Then folks would be buying something ethical and more glamorous. Maybe philanthropic donations could be associated to revitalize areas hurt by the diamond industry to further tell a story for the celebrities and consumers.
    - rstupek 5y ago
      Funny you mention that since that's how diamonds became the thing women desired in the first place
    - PoignardAzur 5y ago
      They would need a catchy name, though... Something like Naturally Famous Treasure, or NFT for short?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  I think the white collar internet kind of distorts the picture because it tends to heavily reward things that signal compliance with rule of law. There are a lot of people who would consider a car, diamond, piece of art, etc that has "a decently long chain of people had to stick their neck out doing criminal things" in its provenance to be a more interesting than an equivalent "produced in a high tech factory". I think even with synthetic diamonds being 100% on par in every way there will still be a market for ethically and legally gray diamonds because people want to know they're buying something that someone toiled and/or took risks for. I'd say price will probably be the determining factor but luxury status symbol markets don't work that way.
- Haemm0r 5y ago
  "Does anyone, other than geologists of course, really care about the back-story of the diamond, how it was created and how it was mined?" Yes of course. Everybody can buy a ring with a diamond, but if they sell you a story with it you can tell, it is even better :)
  - Nursie 5y ago
    > Yes of course. Everybody can buy a ring with a diamond, but if they sell you a story with it you can tell, it is even better :) A story about geology and how it was dug up? The same story as literally every other diamond wearer?
- hrktb 5y ago
  The people in these stories don’t buy diamond for their mechanical properties or bore tunnels, so everything surrounding the diamond itself is what matters. How it was mined, where it came from, which company sells it and how all of that is marketed to the world (not even really to the owner) is the value of all of this. It’s like sending a unicef postcard, what matters the most would be the effect on the receiver and how the sender feels about it. The object itself isn’t on the front stage.
  - Nursie 5y ago
    > How it was mined, where it came from I've never met anyone that cares about that at all, beyond 'conflict-free'.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
vagrantJin 5y ago
"Okay class, child labour, a few thousand poor people dead, terrorist groups starving hundreds of thousands, destroying schools and libraries. That is where diamonds come from. How many would still want a natural diamond because diamonds are forever?" The elephant in that lecture hall was probably the hypocrisy. I think if you still raise a hand after hearing all that, the issue isn't branding at all. It's narcissim, that people have to die so you can maintain the illusion of...of what? That's the difference.
- offtop5 5y ago
  It also factors into how someone grew up. I'd rather toss 10k into a couple emergency fund then waste it on a ring. Most marriages collapse due to money. I recall in my younger days I was with a girl and she dragged me to Brooks Brothers. As a child of poverty and evictions I couldn't understand why anyone who need to spend this much money on a shirt. Even making well into the 6 figures I shop at Old Navy. Hell, my favorite partner thus far was making 200k or so, and she still used an IPhone 6. Maybe whenever I meet someone new I'll ask on the first date, would you rather have 10k saved in an emergency fund or a shinny conflict rock ? Her response will tell me everything I need to know.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    >Maybe whenever I meet someone new I'll ask on the first date, would you rather have 10k saved in an emergency fund or a shinny conflict rock ? Her response will tell me everything I need to know. I don't know about asking that on the very first date, but it is very reasonable (essential even) to make sure your priorities and your partner's priorities match up.
  - falcor84 5y ago
    >Most marriages collapse due to money. Some studies on factors leading to divorce do put 'money' (and particularly attitudes regarding money) as the biggest single factor, but I'm not familiar with any study (let alone a consensus) that it's a leading factor in 'most' divorces.
MereInterest 5y ago
That an emotional attachment exists explains why a difference can exist, but doesn't explain why the attachment points in the direction that it does. Lab-grown diamonds could just as easily be the ones with emotional attachment, perhaps emphasizing how much hard work, research, ingenuity, and dedication went into making that diamond as a symbol of the hard work and dedication one is willing to put into a relationship. That the emotional attachment is specifically toward mined diamonds shows the strength of marketing.
WhompingWindows 5y ago
I don't think your metaphor of a famous writer's pen is apt. For that to work, we'd have to be able to reproduce writer's pens in a lab for less money and less ethical violation. Probably a better analogy would be using some rare squid ink vs. using manufactured chemical ink.

by qw 5y ago

Nursie 5y ago

That's a good point, the difference doesn't have to be in the item itself, BUT - Does anyone, other than geologists of course, really care about the back-story of the diamond, how it was created and how it was mined? Or are they just hanging on to an idea that some of them are "real" and some "not real" for the purposes of social signalling? If the latter, I would consider this much more changeable over time.

coddle-hark 5y ago
> Does anyone, other than geologists of course, really care about the back-story of the diamond, how it was created and how it was mined? Yes, very much so, as is the case with all lifestyle products. People want to believe that they’re buying something special.
- Nursie 5y ago
  Really? I've never met anyone that talked about it at all. Maybe I don't have conversations about diamonds very often, but people only ever seemed concerned that they were 'real', and latterly that they were conflict-free. > People want to believe that they’re buying something special. What if it turns out they're not?
  - alfiedotwtf 5y ago
    Jewelers provide certifications when buying diamonds. They'd be a) on the hook if they sold counterfeit products, and b) they wouldn't be able to sell anymore because of a tarnished brand.
    - shawnz 5y ago
      I don't think the suggestion is that they'd sell counterfeits. The suggestion is that even the real thing has no special differentiating properties. The authenticity certificate is just a tool to achieve better signaling, nobody cares what it says as long as it says "authentic".
    - Nursie 5y ago
      What I meant was what if it turns out diamonds are not special after all? Lab grown diamonds are diamonds. Whether one comes out of the ground or from a lab, maybe they aren’t that special.
      - alfiedotwtf 5y ago
        Ah. A lot of economists have argued that the "value" of something is based on the labor cost of production. So given that viewpoint, mined diamonds would be worth more than lab ones, even if they were identical in every way (yes, I also think this is silly, but that's what the market's indicating even today).
        Nursie 5y ago
        I'm pretty sure that doesn't really apply in such a massively manipulated market! (And yes, those economists would tend to get laughed out of the room these days)
  - ZephyrBlu 5y ago
    > What if it turns out they're not? Buyers remorse or post-rationalization.
- humanrebar 5y ago
  Someone should pay celebrities to wear specific jewelry with lab created stones to galas and awards ceremonies. Then resell the pieces, or even just the stones, at a premium since they were worn by <insert story here>. Then folks would be buying something ethical and more glamorous. Maybe philanthropic donations could be associated to revitalize areas hurt by the diamond industry to further tell a story for the celebrities and consumers.
  - rstupek 5y ago
    Funny you mention that since that's how diamonds became the thing women desired in the first place
  - PoignardAzur 5y ago
    They would need a catchy name, though... Something like Naturally Famous Treasure, or NFT for short?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
I think the white collar internet kind of distorts the picture because it tends to heavily reward things that signal compliance with rule of law. There are a lot of people who would consider a car, diamond, piece of art, etc that has "a decently long chain of people had to stick their neck out doing criminal things" in its provenance to be a more interesting than an equivalent "produced in a high tech factory". I think even with synthetic diamonds being 100% on par in every way there will still be a market for ethically and legally gray diamonds because people want to know they're buying something that someone toiled and/or took risks for. I'd say price will probably be the determining factor but luxury status symbol markets don't work that way.
Haemm0r 5y ago
"Does anyone, other than geologists of course, really care about the back-story of the diamond, how it was created and how it was mined?" Yes of course. Everybody can buy a ring with a diamond, but if they sell you a story with it you can tell, it is even better :)
- Nursie 5y ago
  > Yes of course. Everybody can buy a ring with a diamond, but if they sell you a story with it you can tell, it is even better :) A story about geology and how it was dug up? The same story as literally every other diamond wearer?
hrktb 5y ago
The people in these stories don’t buy diamond for their mechanical properties or bore tunnels, so everything surrounding the diamond itself is what matters. How it was mined, where it came from, which company sells it and how all of that is marketed to the world (not even really to the owner) is the value of all of this. It’s like sending a unicef postcard, what matters the most would be the effect on the receiver and how the sender feels about it. The object itself isn’t on the front stage.
- Nursie 5y ago
  > How it was mined, where it came from I've never met anyone that cares about that at all, beyond 'conflict-free'.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

vagrantJin 5y ago

"Okay class, child labour, a few thousand poor people dead, terrorist groups starving hundreds of thousands, destroying schools and libraries. That is where diamonds come from. How many would still want a natural diamond because diamonds are forever?" The elephant in that lecture hall was probably the hypocrisy. I think if you still raise a hand after hearing all that, the issue isn't branding at all. It's narcissim, that people have to die so you can maintain the illusion of...of what? That's the difference.

offtop5 5y ago
It also factors into how someone grew up. I'd rather toss 10k into a couple emergency fund then waste it on a ring. Most marriages collapse due to money. I recall in my younger days I was with a girl and she dragged me to Brooks Brothers. As a child of poverty and evictions I couldn't understand why anyone who need to spend this much money on a shirt. Even making well into the 6 figures I shop at Old Navy. Hell, my favorite partner thus far was making 200k or so, and she still used an IPhone 6. Maybe whenever I meet someone new I'll ask on the first date, would you rather have 10k saved in an emergency fund or a shinny conflict rock ? Her response will tell me everything I need to know.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  >Maybe whenever I meet someone new I'll ask on the first date, would you rather have 10k saved in an emergency fund or a shinny conflict rock ? Her response will tell me everything I need to know. I don't know about asking that on the very first date, but it is very reasonable (essential even) to make sure your priorities and your partner's priorities match up.
- falcor84 5y ago
  >Most marriages collapse due to money. Some studies on factors leading to divorce do put 'money' (and particularly attitudes regarding money) as the biggest single factor, but I'm not familiar with any study (let alone a consensus) that it's a leading factor in 'most' divorces.

MereInterest 5y ago

That an emotional attachment exists explains why a difference can exist, but doesn't explain why the attachment points in the direction that it does. Lab-grown diamonds could just as easily be the ones with emotional attachment, perhaps emphasizing how much hard work, research, ingenuity, and dedication went into making that diamond as a symbol of the hard work and dedication one is willing to put into a relationship. That the emotional attachment is specifically toward mined diamonds shows the strength of marketing.

WhompingWindows 5y ago

I don't think your metaphor of a famous writer's pen is apt. For that to work, we'd have to be able to reproduce writer's pens in a lab for less money and less ethical violation. Probably a better analogy would be using some rare squid ink vs. using manufactured chemical ink.