4 ms·

serious question: has humanity produced any net gains for the environment or any not-human-centric ecosystem? To my knowledge the track record of things we've

serious question: has humanity produced any net gains for the environment or any not-human-centric ecosystem? To my knowledge the track record of things we've improved for humans will be much longer... so I'm not sure that's a great comparison to make here!

swader999 5y ago
Earth has greened considerably over the past few decades.
- NegativeLatency 5y ago
  Can you explain that?
  - brabel 5y ago
    https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/node/6423 https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/node/6423 "A new study reports continued climate-altering carbon emissions and intensive land use have inadvertently greened half of the Earth’s vegetated lands. Green leaves convert sunlight to sugars, thus providing food, fiber and fuel, while replacing carbon dioxide (CO2) in the air with water. The removal of heat-trapping CO2 and wetting of air cools the Earth’s surface. Global greening since the early 1980s may have thus reduced global warming, possibly by as much as 0.25oC, reports the study “Characteristics, drivers and feedbacks of global greening” published in the inaugural issue of the journal Nature Reviews Earth and Environment. Two of the authors, Dr. Jarle W. Bjerke and Dr. Hans Tømmervik works at Norwegian Institute for Nature Research at the Fram Centre in Tromsø, Norway."
- rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
  A little more green on the surface because we inject a crazy volume of CO2 into the atmosphere. One can also see some good signs when injective palliative drugs into a dying organism.
  - EricE 5y ago
    Is this where I insert the many 1970's magazine covers breathlessly declaring the coming of the next ice age as well as peak oil dooming us all? People acting like climate change is some ending event always seem to utterly discount human ingenuity to overcome problems throughout history. The real issue with effective problem solving is make sure you are solving the right problems.
    - acdha 5y ago
      The new ice age was a minority claim which never came close to scientific consensus: https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/06/that-70s-myth-did-climate-science-really-call-for-a-coming-ice-age/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/06/that-70s-myth-did-cl...
    - swader999 5y ago
      It was likely an ending event on Venus. But I agree, this isn't certain for earth. There could well be new opportunities for many regions on earth.
powersnail 5y ago
It’s impossible to measure that kind of net gain, because the very idea of “gain” is subjective, existing only in our own mind. Is plastic waste good or bad for the environment? Is more forestation a gain or a loss? Such question cannot be answered without factoring in a human perspective. (Or some conscious things’ perspective, but either way, “the environment” has no perspective as it has no goal or objective)
pembrook 5y ago
If you zoom out again, humans are the only hope for the survival of all multi-cellular earth life in general. The sun will destroy earth in 2-5 billion years. But before then, an asteroid will likely destroy all most/all life on earth in the next couple hundred million years or so. And before that, a super volcano will likely destroy most/all of the animal and plant life on earth. Assuming human technology advances fast enough to avoid catastrophic climate change and MAD succeeds at keeping us from destroying the earth ourselves , we're the only species that has a shot at making any "not-human-centric ecosystem" survive beyond earth. (ignoring any life that may exist outside our solar system) Of course, 22 Billion years from now the entire universe might die and kill everything anyways, but we may end up giving Bambi & friends a few billion years of existence they wouldn't have otherwise had. So I'd call that a net gain.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
  Scientists have troubles envisioning a sustainable world in the coming decades (due to the ongoing, human-driven, accelerating collapse of biodiversity) but somehow we may save the world in millions of years? See IPBES report for a summary. Maybe we should focus on the pressing and critical issues instead of worsening them in the hope that a distant event could justify our suicidal behavior.
  - pembrook 5y ago
    Seems we're already working on fixing the problem, no? Hence why the IPBES report exists! But if this modern narrative of "We've angered the gods!" makes you feel good, I'm not sure anything I can say will refute your certainty about our coming doom.
    - rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
      I did not mention any god nor was I trying to make anyone feel good or bad. What's your point?
- developer93 5y ago
  That's a big if though

swader999 5y ago

Earth has greened considerably over the past few decades.

NegativeLatency 5y ago
Can you explain that?
- brabel 5y ago
  https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/node/6423 https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/node/6423 "A new study reports continued climate-altering carbon emissions and intensive land use have inadvertently greened half of the Earth’s vegetated lands. Green leaves convert sunlight to sugars, thus providing food, fiber and fuel, while replacing carbon dioxide (CO2) in the air with water. The removal of heat-trapping CO2 and wetting of air cools the Earth’s surface. Global greening since the early 1980s may have thus reduced global warming, possibly by as much as 0.25oC, reports the study “Characteristics, drivers and feedbacks of global greening” published in the inaugural issue of the journal Nature Reviews Earth and Environment. Two of the authors, Dr. Jarle W. Bjerke and Dr. Hans Tømmervik works at Norwegian Institute for Nature Research at the Fram Centre in Tromsø, Norway."
rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
A little more green on the surface because we inject a crazy volume of CO2 into the atmosphere. One can also see some good signs when injective palliative drugs into a dying organism.
- EricE 5y ago
  Is this where I insert the many 1970's magazine covers breathlessly declaring the coming of the next ice age as well as peak oil dooming us all? People acting like climate change is some ending event always seem to utterly discount human ingenuity to overcome problems throughout history. The real issue with effective problem solving is make sure you are solving the right problems.
  - acdha 5y ago
    The new ice age was a minority claim which never came close to scientific consensus: https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/06/that-70s-myth-did-climate-science-really-call-for-a-coming-ice-age/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/06/that-70s-myth-did-cl...
  - swader999 5y ago
    It was likely an ending event on Venus. But I agree, this isn't certain for earth. There could well be new opportunities for many regions on earth.

powersnail 5y ago

It’s impossible to measure that kind of net gain, because the very idea of “gain” is subjective, existing only in our own mind. Is plastic waste good or bad for the environment? Is more forestation a gain or a loss? Such question cannot be answered without factoring in a human perspective. (Or some conscious things’ perspective, but either way, “the environment” has no perspective as it has no goal or objective)

pembrook 5y ago

If you zoom out again, humans are the only hope for the survival of all multi-cellular earth life in general. The sun will destroy earth in 2-5 billion years. But before then, an asteroid will likely destroy all most/all life on earth in the next couple hundred million years or so. And before that, a super volcano will likely destroy most/all of the animal and plant life on earth. Assuming human technology advances fast enough to avoid catastrophic climate change and MAD succeeds at keeping us from destroying the earth ourselves , we're the only species that has a shot at making any "not-human-centric ecosystem" survive beyond earth. (ignoring any life that may exist outside our solar system) Of course, 22 Billion years from now the entire universe might die and kill everything anyways, but we may end up giving Bambi & friends a few billion years of existence they wouldn't have otherwise had. So I'd call that a net gain.

rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
Scientists have troubles envisioning a sustainable world in the coming decades (due to the ongoing, human-driven, accelerating collapse of biodiversity) but somehow we may save the world in millions of years? See IPBES report for a summary. Maybe we should focus on the pressing and critical issues instead of worsening them in the hope that a distant event could justify our suicidal behavior.
- pembrook 5y ago
  Seems we're already working on fixing the problem, no? Hence why the IPBES report exists! But if this modern narrative of "We've angered the gods!" makes you feel good, I'm not sure anything I can say will refute your certainty about our coming doom.
  - rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
    I did not mention any god nor was I trying to make anyone feel good or bad. What's your point?
developer93 5y ago
That's a big if though