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It's not an education problem. It's an ideology problem. A huge fraction of the country has basically lost all faith in public and academic institutions. In the

It's not an education problem. It's an ideology problem. A huge fraction of the country has basically lost all faith in public and academic institutions. In these polarized times, when many leaders that institution-skeptics listen to decided to make COVID a political issue in the ongoing culture war, listening to public health recommendations (including masking, vaccination) is akin to "letting the other side win". Earlier in the vaccine rollout, some minority populations were skeptical of the vaccine for more historically-grounded reasons (i.e. historical discrimination/abuses in the healthcare system), but that skepticism has faded dramatically [1] as more and more people get the vaccine. Only one group [2] has been pretty consistently unwilling to get the vaccine, and it's tightly coupled to the same ideological alignments that are dividing society in all political and social arenas. More education won't change deeply-held ideological beliefs. [1] https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/more-and-more-americans-say-theyll-get-vaccinated-but-its-still-unclear-just-how-many-will/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/more-and-more-americans... [2] https://morningconsult.com/2021/03/24/trump-covid-vaccine-republicans-poll/ https://morningconsult.com/2021/03/24/trump-covid-vaccine-re...

thu2111 5y ago
I don't think it was "institution skeptics" who made COVID a political issue. How many months did it take before academics were claiming that anti-lockdown protests were dangerous and must not happen but BLM protests were to be encouraged, because "systemic racism" is a public health issue? Not many. How many other academics condemned this blatant politicization of science? Not enough. Lockdowns don't work: US states that locked down hard have not seen different results from those that had far fewer restrictions. Sweden has been less impacted than the UK and many other European countries that locked down hard. Have academic institutions ever acknowledged that, or accepted that their predictions were wrong? They do not. The ones I've seen just claim anyone who disagrees with them is an ideologically motivated anti-science conspiracy theorist. These things are not the right way to re-assure people institutions are on top of things. They clearly are not.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Lockdown worked fine in New Zealand it not? The thing is, it’s something you have to commit to. You can’t just half ass it.
  - CountDrewku 5y ago
    You realize they achieved this by effectively locking down their borders right? Now, imagine the response if Trump had suggested this. Actually, you don't even need to imagine it: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-coronavirus-borders_n_5e6a530ec5b6dda30fc4be6e https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-coronavirus-borders_n_5...
    - rovolo 5y ago
      That article is from 2020-03-12. By that day, we had a total of 40 deaths and 1.5k confirmed cases. It was pretty obviously spreading within the US at that point, and just closing the borders wasn't going to stop it. Headlines for context: > Trump Appears More Concerned With Closing Borders Than Testing For Coronavirus > The president has characterized the pandemic as a “foreign virus” and suggested that banning people from other countries is key to fixing the outbreak at home.
      - CountDrewku 5y ago
        Where did I say anything about "just closing the borders"? Yes multiple approaches are necessary. My point was that if Trump had tried the same tactics NZ did he would have been met with vitriol about how racist and xenophobic he was. People still won't admit that his administration was responsible for getting the vaccine out in a timely manner. NZ had the obvious benefit of being an island with a low population that was able to easily lock their borders down and keep people socially distanced. They didn't pull off some miracle that no one else can figure out.
        rovolo 5y ago
        > if Trump had tried the same tactics NZ did he would have been met with vitriol about how racist and xenophobic he was. This point doesn't follow from the article you linked. The HuffPo article has two major complaints: 1) Trump's major focus on dealing with covid at the moment was the existing travel restrictions for China and the new restrictions for Europe. He should have pivoted to addressing the internal spread within the US. 2) Trump was trying to direct blame to specific nationalities/ethnic groups instead of saying that anyone and any travel could be spreading the virus. They were deflect blame by calling it the "Wuhan virus" and "China coronavirus". I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the manner he closed the borders was xenophobic. Furthermore, he wasn't doing the things necessary to stop the internal spread, and those were more important once the virus arrived. NZ's new cases only started falling in mid-April, a month after Trump's expanded travel restrictions. Additional travel restrictions were necessary, but not sufficient to reduce covid's impact. http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=countries&highlight=New%20Zealand&show=highlight-only&y=both&scale=linear&data=cases&data-source=jhu&xaxis=right#countries http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=countri...
auiya 5y ago
> It's not an education problem. It's an ideology problem. Ideology is formed via education
- jgwil2 5y ago
  I think the OP was asking if it's an education problem as in, do people just not understand what a vaccine is or how it works? But that's not the issue really. The information is out there; people are just choosing to ignore it or cling to "alternative facts" for some as yet poorly understood reason.
  - auiya 5y ago
    Because critical thinking skills are severely lacking due to - you guessed it, poor education.
    - jgwil2 5y ago
      I think it's more complicated than that.
- ryandrake 5y ago
  I’d argue that ideology is what fills in the voids that education hasn’t already reached. It’s like some kind of spray-foam that takes up whatever space that hasn’t yet been filled with educated thought.
  - FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
    The line between ("good") education and ("bad") ideology is not nearly this clear. Religions run schools for a reason. Canada started Residential Schools, and China started vocational training in Xinjiang, all for the same reason. You can call it continuing the culture, or passing on the traditions, or inculcating values, or working for progress, or social change, or cultural genocide, depending on your bent. It's the war for minds. And young minds are impressionable.
- FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
johbjo 5y ago
> lost all faith in public and academic institutions The people wearing masks outside, what are they afraid of and where are they placing their faith?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
cyanydeez 5y ago
except, these ideological beliefs are only intrinsictly deep, sparked by the republican desire to have as many polticially potent tools for their trade. this belief is only a year ood. its not same centuries old belief,

thu2111 5y ago

I don't think it was "institution skeptics" who made COVID a political issue. How many months did it take before academics were claiming that anti-lockdown protests were dangerous and must not happen but BLM protests were to be encouraged, because "systemic racism" is a public health issue? Not many. How many other academics condemned this blatant politicization of science? Not enough. Lockdowns don't work: US states that locked down hard have not seen different results from those that had far fewer restrictions. Sweden has been less impacted than the UK and many other European countries that locked down hard. Have academic institutions ever acknowledged that, or accepted that their predictions were wrong? They do not. The ones I've seen just claim anyone who disagrees with them is an ideologically motivated anti-science conspiracy theorist. These things are not the right way to re-assure people institutions are on top of things. They clearly are not.

arcticbull 5y ago
Lockdown worked fine in New Zealand it not? The thing is, it’s something you have to commit to. You can’t just half ass it.
- CountDrewku 5y ago
  You realize they achieved this by effectively locking down their borders right? Now, imagine the response if Trump had suggested this. Actually, you don't even need to imagine it: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-coronavirus-borders_n_5e6a530ec5b6dda30fc4be6e https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-coronavirus-borders_n_5...
  - rovolo 5y ago
    That article is from 2020-03-12. By that day, we had a total of 40 deaths and 1.5k confirmed cases. It was pretty obviously spreading within the US at that point, and just closing the borders wasn't going to stop it. Headlines for context: > Trump Appears More Concerned With Closing Borders Than Testing For Coronavirus > The president has characterized the pandemic as a “foreign virus” and suggested that banning people from other countries is key to fixing the outbreak at home.
    - CountDrewku 5y ago
      Where did I say anything about "just closing the borders"? Yes multiple approaches are necessary. My point was that if Trump had tried the same tactics NZ did he would have been met with vitriol about how racist and xenophobic he was. People still won't admit that his administration was responsible for getting the vaccine out in a timely manner. NZ had the obvious benefit of being an island with a low population that was able to easily lock their borders down and keep people socially distanced. They didn't pull off some miracle that no one else can figure out.
      - rovolo 5y ago
        > if Trump had tried the same tactics NZ did he would have been met with vitriol about how racist and xenophobic he was. This point doesn't follow from the article you linked. The HuffPo article has two major complaints: 1) Trump's major focus on dealing with covid at the moment was the existing travel restrictions for China and the new restrictions for Europe. He should have pivoted to addressing the internal spread within the US. 2) Trump was trying to direct blame to specific nationalities/ethnic groups instead of saying that anyone and any travel could be spreading the virus. They were deflect blame by calling it the "Wuhan virus" and "China coronavirus". I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the manner he closed the borders was xenophobic. Furthermore, he wasn't doing the things necessary to stop the internal spread, and those were more important once the virus arrived. NZ's new cases only started falling in mid-April, a month after Trump's expanded travel restrictions. Additional travel restrictions were necessary, but not sufficient to reduce covid's impact. http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=countries&highlight=New%20Zealand&show=highlight-only&y=both&scale=linear&data=cases&data-source=jhu&xaxis=right#countries http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=countri...

auiya 5y ago

> It's not an education problem. It's an ideology problem. Ideology is formed via education

jgwil2 5y ago
I think the OP was asking if it's an education problem as in, do people just not understand what a vaccine is or how it works? But that's not the issue really. The information is out there; people are just choosing to ignore it or cling to "alternative facts" for some as yet poorly understood reason.
- auiya 5y ago
  Because critical thinking skills are severely lacking due to - you guessed it, poor education.
  - jgwil2 5y ago
    I think it's more complicated than that.
ryandrake 5y ago
I’d argue that ideology is what fills in the voids that education hasn’t already reached. It’s like some kind of spray-foam that takes up whatever space that hasn’t yet been filled with educated thought.
- FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
  The line between ("good") education and ("bad") ideology is not nearly this clear. Religions run schools for a reason. Canada started Residential Schools, and China started vocational training in Xinjiang, all for the same reason. You can call it continuing the culture, or passing on the traditions, or inculcating values, or working for progress, or social change, or cultural genocide, depending on your bent. It's the war for minds. And young minds are impressionable.
FooBarBizBazz 5y ago

johbjo 5y ago

> lost all faith in public and academic institutions The people wearing masks outside, what are they afraid of and where are they placing their faith?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

cyanydeez 5y ago

except, these ideological beliefs are only intrinsictly deep, sparked by the republican desire to have as many polticially potent tools for their trade. this belief is only a year ood. its not same centuries old belief,