4 ms·

All cool and good, but I'd have stopped at step 1: Considering buying a dish washer with DRMed detergent. Sorry, but rewarding people with such outrageous propo

All cool and good, but I'd have stopped at step 1: Considering buying a dish washer with DRMed detergent. Sorry, but rewarding people with such outrageous proposals with a purchase is morally questionable in itself.

lexicality 6y ago
Yeah at that point I said "Hang on wasn't there a Cory Doctorow story about this?" out loud
- unixfg 6y ago
  Whole thing is here: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/01/unauthorized-bread-a-near-future-tale-of-refugees-and-sinister-iot-appliances/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/01/unauthorized-bread-a-...
azernik 6y ago
Given the cartridge pricing, the machine itself is likely a loss leader, or at best sold at low margins.
- egypturnash 6y ago
  You would think that, but I've been in the market for one of these things and this one looks to be about US$100 above the median price. Pay more and become a recurring revenue stream, sounds great!
bonoboTP 6y ago
I noped out when it said internet connected dishwasher.
- mikro2nd 6y ago
  Original hacker did say that he's never allowed the thing an actual internet connection, though, and it's still working just fine. So clearly the internet connectivity is not a hard requirement. I wonder what it does send back to the manufacturer, though... Anybody who owns one up for dumping the contents of their dishwasher's conversation with Mom?
  - bonoboTP 6y ago
    OP still rewarded the company. Through work I'm somewhat connected to a big appliance maker and whenever they do the big presentations on their Vision For The Future it's all IoT. That every little shit in your home from your blender to your dishwasher to your drill will be internet connected and have software updates and upgrades and tracked servicing and tamper proofing and usage statistics and paid feature unlocking and upselling and better market segmentation etc. They'll extort our very last penny we can shed and we will be happy about it and march into this future willingly.
- qwertox 6y ago
  I have mine connected to a wifi power meter and the data is logged in InfluxDB and monitored by Grafana, so I get an email and XMPP notification when the dishes are done. Then the same for the washing machine, and there it is super useful since the machine isn't inside the apartment, but in the washroom, and it is a real problem if I forget the clothes. But doing this with the dishwasher is not useful.
  - bonoboTP 6y ago
    The last thing I need in my life is yet another source for notifications. But I guess we are all different.
    - qwertox 6y ago
      Honestly it's a blessing if your washing machine let's you know that the clothes are ready to be taken out. Since I started with this around 4 years ago, I've never forgotten the clothes in it. Also, it's 1-3 notifications a week. Then again, I also get notifications multiple times a day when the backups of the servers finished successfully or failed, so it appears that I'm ok with receiving notifications (from machines). Or when devices have connected to the wifi.
  - exhilaration 6y ago
    Wait, you plugged a wifi power meter in your apartment building's communal washroom? Don't you get pinged everytime anyone finishes a load of laundry? Also: brilliant hack!
    - qwertox 6y ago
      Each apartment has his own washing machine in the communal washroom, so I have the cable plugged into the power meter and every time I need to wash I plug the power meter into the wall socket. I'm considering replacing it with an ESP32 and wrap a wire around the cable which should then detect if current is flowing, but I lack a bit of motivation since the current setup is working.
- kumarvvr 6y ago
  I think, for this particular machine, the internet connection is for sending alerts for when new pods are required. However, I still remember how scarily fast did TV manufacturers go from "the internet is for a richer experience" to "all your data are belong to us". And the worst part is no one, not even regulators flinched a muscle while this data grabbed happened before everyone's eyes.
  - bonoboTP 6y ago
    Don't forget the damn ads that are all over your definitely-not-free "smart" TV.
astura 6y ago
1) There's no DRM, just a counter 2) these cassettes are optional >Credit where credit's due, Daan Tech didn't completely lock down the machine with Bob cassettes. Once empty, you can leave it there and add detergents manually.
kumarvvr 6y ago
To be fair, a large section of population does not see it that way, nor is the advertisement fully truthful. Usually they are advertised as pods that cost such and such for such and such cycles. And then you have offers and combos, etc to market the pods. Somewhere in some tiny text somewhere, it says you are prohibited from using other similar pods.

lexicality 6y ago

Yeah at that point I said "Hang on wasn't there a Cory Doctorow story about this?" out loud

unixfg 6y ago
Whole thing is here: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/01/unauthorized-bread-a-near-future-tale-of-refugees-and-sinister-iot-appliances/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/01/unauthorized-bread-a-...

azernik 6y ago

Given the cartridge pricing, the machine itself is likely a loss leader, or at best sold at low margins.

egypturnash 6y ago
You would think that, but I've been in the market for one of these things and this one looks to be about US$100 above the median price. Pay more and become a recurring revenue stream, sounds great!

bonoboTP 6y ago

I noped out when it said internet connected dishwasher.

mikro2nd 6y ago
Original hacker did say that he's never allowed the thing an actual internet connection, though, and it's still working just fine. So clearly the internet connectivity is not a hard requirement. I wonder what it does send back to the manufacturer, though... Anybody who owns one up for dumping the contents of their dishwasher's conversation with Mom?
- bonoboTP 6y ago
  OP still rewarded the company. Through work I'm somewhat connected to a big appliance maker and whenever they do the big presentations on their Vision For The Future it's all IoT. That every little shit in your home from your blender to your dishwasher to your drill will be internet connected and have software updates and upgrades and tracked servicing and tamper proofing and usage statistics and paid feature unlocking and upselling and better market segmentation etc. They'll extort our very last penny we can shed and we will be happy about it and march into this future willingly.
qwertox 6y ago
I have mine connected to a wifi power meter and the data is logged in InfluxDB and monitored by Grafana, so I get an email and XMPP notification when the dishes are done. Then the same for the washing machine, and there it is super useful since the machine isn't inside the apartment, but in the washroom, and it is a real problem if I forget the clothes. But doing this with the dishwasher is not useful.
- bonoboTP 6y ago
  The last thing I need in my life is yet another source for notifications. But I guess we are all different.
  - qwertox 6y ago
    Honestly it's a blessing if your washing machine let's you know that the clothes are ready to be taken out. Since I started with this around 4 years ago, I've never forgotten the clothes in it. Also, it's 1-3 notifications a week. Then again, I also get notifications multiple times a day when the backups of the servers finished successfully or failed, so it appears that I'm ok with receiving notifications (from machines). Or when devices have connected to the wifi.
- exhilaration 6y ago
  Wait, you plugged a wifi power meter in your apartment building's communal washroom? Don't you get pinged everytime anyone finishes a load of laundry? Also: brilliant hack!
  - qwertox 6y ago
    Each apartment has his own washing machine in the communal washroom, so I have the cable plugged into the power meter and every time I need to wash I plug the power meter into the wall socket. I'm considering replacing it with an ESP32 and wrap a wire around the cable which should then detect if current is flowing, but I lack a bit of motivation since the current setup is working.
kumarvvr 6y ago
I think, for this particular machine, the internet connection is for sending alerts for when new pods are required. However, I still remember how scarily fast did TV manufacturers go from "the internet is for a richer experience" to "all your data are belong to us". And the worst part is no one, not even regulators flinched a muscle while this data grabbed happened before everyone's eyes.
- bonoboTP 6y ago
  Don't forget the damn ads that are all over your definitely-not-free "smart" TV.

astura 6y ago

1) There's no DRM, just a counter 2) these cassettes are optional >Credit where credit's due, Daan Tech didn't completely lock down the machine with Bob cassettes. Once empty, you can leave it there and add detergents manually.

kumarvvr 6y ago

To be fair, a large section of population does not see it that way, nor is the advertisement fully truthful. Usually they are advertised as pods that cost such and such for such and such cycles. And then you have offers and combos, etc to market the pods. Somewhere in some tiny text somewhere, it says you are prohibited from using other similar pods.