5 ms·

This is very, very bad. Music and TV subscriptions? Not great (I want to buy something once and own it), but at least those are luxury purchases. Cars? Not ok

by fouric 5y ago

This is very, very bad. Music and TV subscriptions? Not great (I want to buy something once and own it), but at least those are luxury purchases. Cars? Not ok - that's critical for me (and many others) to get to my job (bad public transit in the area), groceries, etc. > “You can easily see a major backlash to all this,” said Gartner analyst Michael Ramsay. I wonder how one can maximize that potential backlash, so as to cut this terrible idea off as soon as possible.

bozzcl 5y ago
You gotta start small. Boycott. Do not buy cars from companies that do this. Even if they allow you to opt out or they have offerings without these “features”. Then tell your friends and family about it. Hopefully, at least one or two of them will understand or agree. Even if nobody follows your example, you’ve planted the idea in their heads. If you have a blog or social media, write about this. Again, it’s unlikely people will change their minds only because of you, but this will plant the seed of doubt. Over time, this might become big enough to be a political issue. If it affects the driver’s privacy an the car’s safety it definitely can. Then it’s time to call your representatives.
- akomtu 5y ago
  In theory, we would just send a letter to senators and they would pass a law to stop this greedy nonsense. In practice those senators get generous donations from car manufacturers.
  - bozzcl 5y ago
    That’s why seeding your perspective is important, unfortunately. Build leverage before you try to use your lever.
akomtu 5y ago
Precisely because it's so critical, it's a terribly efficient leverage over you, pretty much legalized extortion. Imagine you wake up one morning and your car happily announces that it's updated software overnight and from now on for your safety faceid is required to start the car and an always on driver facing camera will help you to stay focused on the road and arrive safely at your destination no matter where it is. Ah, also, by touching the door handle you agree to the new terms of service. The thing is you have an important appointment in 30 mins.
- unyttigfjelltol 5y ago
  The FTC is considering rulemaking on 'dark patterns' being used to unfairly extract consent, and it wants to hear from you![1] [1] https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/business-blog/2021/04/lights-ftcs-dark-patterns-workshop https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/business-blog/2021/04/...
  - Karsteski 5y ago
    What if that commenter doesn't live in the US..? I find the presumption aggravating
    - pbronez 5y ago
      1) Y Combinator is based in the US, and HN is hosted in the US. While the non-US participants are welcome & valuable, It’s reasonable to assume a commenter is from the US unless they specify otherwise. 2) the statement is relevant regardless of your nationality. There’s only a couple big regulators for this kind of thing worldwide, so a movement by any of them is relevant regardless of whether or not you fall under their jurisdiction directly. GDPR is very meaningful to US tech folks, for example.
dehrmann 5y ago
I mostly disagree on TV and movies. They have a lot less replay value than songs, so there isn't much sense buying. Sure, there are exceptions, but season 1 of Two and a Half Men is not worth $35.
- fpig 5y ago
  I agree; even before the internet, I rented movies, I didn't buy them. The movie/tv industry has always been massively overcharging for the privilege of owning the content, which is why the business of selling them never even really took off the way it did for music and video games where the value of ownership is much higher.

by fouric 5y ago

bozzcl 5y ago

You gotta start small. Boycott. Do not buy cars from companies that do this. Even if they allow you to opt out or they have offerings without these “features”. Then tell your friends and family about it. Hopefully, at least one or two of them will understand or agree. Even if nobody follows your example, you’ve planted the idea in their heads. If you have a blog or social media, write about this. Again, it’s unlikely people will change their minds only because of you, but this will plant the seed of doubt. Over time, this might become big enough to be a political issue. If it affects the driver’s privacy an the car’s safety it definitely can. Then it’s time to call your representatives.

akomtu 5y ago
In theory, we would just send a letter to senators and they would pass a law to stop this greedy nonsense. In practice those senators get generous donations from car manufacturers.
- bozzcl 5y ago
  That’s why seeding your perspective is important, unfortunately. Build leverage before you try to use your lever.

akomtu 5y ago

Precisely because it's so critical, it's a terribly efficient leverage over you, pretty much legalized extortion. Imagine you wake up one morning and your car happily announces that it's updated software overnight and from now on for your safety faceid is required to start the car and an always on driver facing camera will help you to stay focused on the road and arrive safely at your destination no matter where it is. Ah, also, by touching the door handle you agree to the new terms of service. The thing is you have an important appointment in 30 mins.

unyttigfjelltol 5y ago
The FTC is considering rulemaking on 'dark patterns' being used to unfairly extract consent, and it wants to hear from you![1] [1] https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/business-blog/2021/04/lights-ftcs-dark-patterns-workshop https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/business-blog/2021/04/...
- Karsteski 5y ago
  What if that commenter doesn't live in the US..? I find the presumption aggravating
  - pbronez 5y ago
    1) Y Combinator is based in the US, and HN is hosted in the US. While the non-US participants are welcome & valuable, It’s reasonable to assume a commenter is from the US unless they specify otherwise. 2) the statement is relevant regardless of your nationality. There’s only a couple big regulators for this kind of thing worldwide, so a movement by any of them is relevant regardless of whether or not you fall under their jurisdiction directly. GDPR is very meaningful to US tech folks, for example.

dehrmann 5y ago

I mostly disagree on TV and movies. They have a lot less replay value than songs, so there isn't much sense buying. Sure, there are exceptions, but season 1 of Two and a Half Men is not worth $35.

fpig 5y ago
I agree; even before the internet, I rented movies, I didn't buy them. The movie/tv industry has always been massively overcharging for the privilege of owning the content, which is why the business of selling them never even really took off the way it did for music and video games where the value of ownership is much higher.