6 ms·

> "What? The fuel tank capacity can't have an inflated basketball in it that springs a leak during the race, leaving us with more fuel capacity?" Pardon my ign

> "What? The fuel tank capacity can't have an inflated basketball in it that springs a leak during the race, leaving us with more fuel capacity?" Pardon my ignorance- what is the motivation for temporarily reducing the fuel capacity in this example? And why was it disallowed?

BrentOzar 5y ago
Your fuel tank was only allowed to hold a certain amount of fuel because if you had more, you could go farther between pit stops, thereby covering more laps while the other drivers were stopped for gas. He would temporarily meet the small tank regulations during inspection, but under race conditions, the ball would burst, allowing for more space in the tank, which would get filled up with more fuel than his competitors at the first pit stop.
- jborichevskiy 5y ago
  That makes sense, thanks. Clever!
- samstave 5y ago
  How was he "caught" if thats the term?
  - TheGallopedHigh 5y ago
    By the mere fact that the car wasn’t pitting as often. Car was likely inspected afterwards.
    - bronson 5y ago
      Most of them weren't pitting as often as they should.
  - Syonyk 5y ago
    I would assume that by some point, if one of his cars won, the officials just took the whole thing apart to find out what sort of bizarre loophole he'd found that met the letter of the requirements while totally violating the spirit. His antics weren't secret, even at the time he was working. He was just really good at it.
    - TwoBit 5y ago
      And nobody considers that dishonest? It's cheating in the spirit of the rules if not the letter of the rules.
      - Wxc2jjJmST9XWWL 5y ago
        Nope ; Motorsport is always drivers' skills coupled with engineering ingenuity. It's always about "what can I come up with, which gives me an edge, and still somehow is within the rules?" I don't know anything about Nascar, but the history of Formula 1 is full of such little tricks as well. It's just easier to regulate "other sports" than it is to regulate sports that come coupled with a lot of technological involvement. If sth gives you an edge for half a season until rules are adjusted, that might be enough to win a championship. It's a cat-and-mouse game, but it's also exciting, and important for the whole thrill of it. Decades past Gordon Murray designed a fan quite literally sucking cars to the ground, which somehow was within regulations, because no one even considered something like that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb6DAmm7sZg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb6DAmm7sZg In rally driving, they would sometimes come up with fake reasons for a start to be delayed, so they wouldn't have to drive in the front car's dust all the time. Audi entering with their 4-wheel car back in the days was only possible, because they pushed for a rule change and no one else really knew what was coming. Sometimes manufacturers straight up "cheated" (almost, sometimes for real) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lo4dGTrzr8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lo4dGTrzr8 ; it's a thin line, but also what makes it exciting. I would say that it's the hacker's / engineering ethos almost. What can I do within the framework? Whether it's building a bridge (to make it more stable while still following this brash design), a road car (how can I create something fun, with torque, sound, emotion, down force, power, but a nice shape, and still get a road legal car within environmental regulations), computer games (consider https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izxXGuVL21o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izxXGuVL21o ; computer games are full of hacks to get the most out of the hardware), even legal (how can we pay almost no taxes, while not being busted for tax avoidance?) ; not every ingenuity is necessarily good, but it will always be cat-and-mouse, that's the point of living. This got meta quick ... and quite a more detailed answer than I anticipated. Sorry for that, hope I gave you a different perspective though.
- nemo44x 5y ago
  If you’re not cheating you’re not trying.
ska 5y ago
I suspect that it increased the fuel capacity from the nominal "max" at race start, so when you hit a pit stop you can put more in.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
WalterBright 5y ago
Fuel capacities are reduced to minimize the fire in fiery crashes. But lower fuel capacity means more pit stops, which the racer wants to minimize. Temporarily reducing fuel capacity means the car passes tech inspection, but really has more capacity.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Syonyk 5y ago
Fuel tank capacity is required to be 10 gallons. Say, 20 laps or so. They check, at the tech inspection, that your tank doesn't hold more than 10 gallons. Great. Except, once you deflate the basketball (or get creative with routing fuel lines all over the car), you actually have 11-12 gallons onboard. Which means, at the end of the race, when everyone else has to pit, you can make the "risky option" to skip the final pit stop, keep rolling, and, well, surprise of surprise, make it over the line (in first place) before you flame out.
- jborichevskiy 5y ago
  Ah, that explains the fuel lines as well. Very interesting!
zombielinux 5y ago
When you qualify, your fuel tank is only allowed to hold X gallons. With the basketball inside, it held X gallons. When the basketball sprang a leak and deflated, the tank held X+Y gallons, netting a slight advantage between pit stops (an extra lap or two over 500 miles adds up)
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jakogut 5y ago
I assume the rule book specified a maximum fuel tank size, to ensure that teams were making roughly equal pit stops for refueling, etc. Installing a larger fuel tank with the volume taken up by an adjustable air reservoir means the tank starts at legal capacity, and increases in capacity after the race begins, allowing fewer stops for refueling.

BrentOzar 5y ago

Your fuel tank was only allowed to hold a certain amount of fuel because if you had more, you could go farther between pit stops, thereby covering more laps while the other drivers were stopped for gas. He would temporarily meet the small tank regulations during inspection, but under race conditions, the ball would burst, allowing for more space in the tank, which would get filled up with more fuel than his competitors at the first pit stop.

jborichevskiy 5y ago
That makes sense, thanks. Clever!
samstave 5y ago
How was he "caught" if thats the term?
- TheGallopedHigh 5y ago
  By the mere fact that the car wasn’t pitting as often. Car was likely inspected afterwards.
  - bronson 5y ago
    Most of them weren't pitting as often as they should.
- Syonyk 5y ago
  I would assume that by some point, if one of his cars won, the officials just took the whole thing apart to find out what sort of bizarre loophole he'd found that met the letter of the requirements while totally violating the spirit. His antics weren't secret, even at the time he was working. He was just really good at it.
  - TwoBit 5y ago
    And nobody considers that dishonest? It's cheating in the spirit of the rules if not the letter of the rules.
    - Wxc2jjJmST9XWWL 5y ago
      Nope ; Motorsport is always drivers' skills coupled with engineering ingenuity. It's always about "what can I come up with, which gives me an edge, and still somehow is within the rules?" I don't know anything about Nascar, but the history of Formula 1 is full of such little tricks as well. It's just easier to regulate "other sports" than it is to regulate sports that come coupled with a lot of technological involvement. If sth gives you an edge for half a season until rules are adjusted, that might be enough to win a championship. It's a cat-and-mouse game, but it's also exciting, and important for the whole thrill of it. Decades past Gordon Murray designed a fan quite literally sucking cars to the ground, which somehow was within regulations, because no one even considered something like that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb6DAmm7sZg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb6DAmm7sZg In rally driving, they would sometimes come up with fake reasons for a start to be delayed, so they wouldn't have to drive in the front car's dust all the time. Audi entering with their 4-wheel car back in the days was only possible, because they pushed for a rule change and no one else really knew what was coming. Sometimes manufacturers straight up "cheated" (almost, sometimes for real) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lo4dGTrzr8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lo4dGTrzr8 ; it's a thin line, but also what makes it exciting. I would say that it's the hacker's / engineering ethos almost. What can I do within the framework? Whether it's building a bridge (to make it more stable while still following this brash design), a road car (how can I create something fun, with torque, sound, emotion, down force, power, but a nice shape, and still get a road legal car within environmental regulations), computer games (consider https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izxXGuVL21o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izxXGuVL21o ; computer games are full of hacks to get the most out of the hardware), even legal (how can we pay almost no taxes, while not being busted for tax avoidance?) ; not every ingenuity is necessarily good, but it will always be cat-and-mouse, that's the point of living. This got meta quick ... and quite a more detailed answer than I anticipated. Sorry for that, hope I gave you a different perspective though.
nemo44x 5y ago
If you’re not cheating you’re not trying.

ska 5y ago

I suspect that it increased the fuel capacity from the nominal "max" at race start, so when you hit a pit stop you can put more in.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

WalterBright 5y ago

Fuel capacities are reduced to minimize the fire in fiery crashes. But lower fuel capacity means more pit stops, which the racer wants to minimize. Temporarily reducing fuel capacity means the car passes tech inspection, but really has more capacity.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Syonyk 5y ago

Fuel tank capacity is required to be 10 gallons. Say, 20 laps or so. They check, at the tech inspection, that your tank doesn't hold more than 10 gallons. Great. Except, once you deflate the basketball (or get creative with routing fuel lines all over the car), you actually have 11-12 gallons onboard. Which means, at the end of the race, when everyone else has to pit, you can make the "risky option" to skip the final pit stop, keep rolling, and, well, surprise of surprise, make it over the line (in first place) before you flame out.

jborichevskiy 5y ago
Ah, that explains the fuel lines as well. Very interesting!

zombielinux 5y ago

When you qualify, your fuel tank is only allowed to hold X gallons. With the basketball inside, it held X gallons. When the basketball sprang a leak and deflated, the tank held X+Y gallons, netting a slight advantage between pit stops (an extra lap or two over 500 miles adds up)

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

jakogut 5y ago

I assume the rule book specified a maximum fuel tank size, to ensure that teams were making roughly equal pit stops for refueling, etc. Installing a larger fuel tank with the volume taken up by an adjustable air reservoir means the tank starts at legal capacity, and increases in capacity after the race begins, allowing fewer stops for refueling.