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> I don't, it's a waste of resources. I want them to relearn or restructure. Having been part of a company that went extinct, I don't agree. Some groups of pe

> I don't, it's a waste of resources. I want them to relearn or restructure. Having been part of a company that went extinct, I don't agree. Some groups of people pointed in a particular direction just aren't meant to be and aren't productive. It's better for them to be forced to disband (due to lack of funds) after the market told them squarely that they're not providing a valuable product or service. Now all these people have gone their own ways and are providing much more value for both themselves and others in various parts of the economy where their skills are being put to better use. > You are assuming that evolution itself is somehow "efficient"; I don't see that as self-evident. I'm asserting that competition is necessary for societal prosperity, which inevitably leads to some sorting as a consequence.

jokoon 5y ago
> I'm asserting that competition is necessary for societal prosperity, which inevitably leads to some sorting as a consequence. Says who exactly? Where do you see that competition is beneficial? What kind of prosperity, and for who? People eat, sleep and socialize, and competition doesn't really drive prosperity. Poor people, the unemployed and the homeless don't deserve their situation, yet a merit system will always create inequalities. People are free from doing what they want, as long as it doesn't lead to the exclusion of individuals.
- fighterpilot 5y ago
  > Says who exactly? Where do you see that competition is beneficial? Consider just one example: competition in the labor market. Businesses need to hire competent people that have the skills required for the job, otherwise they won't be able to function. That means pitting candidates against each other in a form of competition and sorting them during the interview process, in order to find who are the best at what you're hiring for. Without this one example of competition and sorting, hiring good people would be a roll of the dice and I'd even say that our whole economy wouldn't be able to function. There's countless other similar examples throughout the economy where competition and sorting are necessary, but I think that one example should suffice. > What kind of prosperity, and for who? Everyone is better off with it, because without it we'd all be in desperate poverty, since the economy wouldn't function.
  - jokoon 5y ago
    > Without this one example of competition and sorting, hiring good people would be a roll of the dice and I'd even say that our whole economy wouldn't be able to function. It's difficult to prove. Where is the philosophy in that? Where is the theory about competition? How do you evaluate if a person is competent by the way? How do you really "pit" themselves against each other? I would say, let people candidate for the jobs they want to work, just put some simple requirement, and roll the dice. If those people are not happy with those jobs, they'll quit. > Everyone is better off with it, because without it we'd all be in desperate poverty, since the economy wouldn't function. I heard that argument thousands of time, without proof or arguments. I mean there are alternative but if all you say is that "There are no alternative, we do things this way because we don't know a different way so we're stuck", it's hard for me to be convinced.
    - fighterpilot 5y ago
      You're proposing that we hire people either at random or if they merely claim that they can do something? That won't work. You're a C++ programmer. As you know, very few people know anything about C++, a lot of the people that claim they're good at C++ aren't, and the number of true C++ experts are very few and far between. If you select a person at random for a C++ job, either from the general population or the population of people that simply put C++ on their CV, you're probably going to get a bad hire, and if you do this for all your hires, you'll almost certainly fail as a business. > I heard that argument thousands of time, without proof or arguments. If you think that a business can function without sorting candidates through interviews or some other filtering process - which is a competition - then I believe you're the one with the burden of proof, not me.
      - jokoon 5y ago
        > You're proposing that we hire people either at random That was your idea. People are generally pretty well aware of their skills. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_abolitionism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_abolitionism I never talked about business, and your example of C++ programmers is very very specific.

jokoon 5y ago

> I'm asserting that competition is necessary for societal prosperity, which inevitably leads to some sorting as a consequence. Says who exactly? Where do you see that competition is beneficial? What kind of prosperity, and for who? People eat, sleep and socialize, and competition doesn't really drive prosperity. Poor people, the unemployed and the homeless don't deserve their situation, yet a merit system will always create inequalities. People are free from doing what they want, as long as it doesn't lead to the exclusion of individuals.

fighterpilot 5y ago
> Says who exactly? Where do you see that competition is beneficial? Consider just one example: competition in the labor market. Businesses need to hire competent people that have the skills required for the job, otherwise they won't be able to function. That means pitting candidates against each other in a form of competition and sorting them during the interview process, in order to find who are the best at what you're hiring for. Without this one example of competition and sorting, hiring good people would be a roll of the dice and I'd even say that our whole economy wouldn't be able to function. There's countless other similar examples throughout the economy where competition and sorting are necessary, but I think that one example should suffice. > What kind of prosperity, and for who? Everyone is better off with it, because without it we'd all be in desperate poverty, since the economy wouldn't function.
- jokoon 5y ago
  > Without this one example of competition and sorting, hiring good people would be a roll of the dice and I'd even say that our whole economy wouldn't be able to function. It's difficult to prove. Where is the philosophy in that? Where is the theory about competition? How do you evaluate if a person is competent by the way? How do you really "pit" themselves against each other? I would say, let people candidate for the jobs they want to work, just put some simple requirement, and roll the dice. If those people are not happy with those jobs, they'll quit. > Everyone is better off with it, because without it we'd all be in desperate poverty, since the economy wouldn't function. I heard that argument thousands of time, without proof or arguments. I mean there are alternative but if all you say is that "There are no alternative, we do things this way because we don't know a different way so we're stuck", it's hard for me to be convinced.
  - fighterpilot 5y ago
    You're proposing that we hire people either at random or if they merely claim that they can do something? That won't work. You're a C++ programmer. As you know, very few people know anything about C++, a lot of the people that claim they're good at C++ aren't, and the number of true C++ experts are very few and far between. If you select a person at random for a C++ job, either from the general population or the population of people that simply put C++ on their CV, you're probably going to get a bad hire, and if you do this for all your hires, you'll almost certainly fail as a business. > I heard that argument thousands of time, without proof or arguments. If you think that a business can function without sorting candidates through interviews or some other filtering process - which is a competition - then I believe you're the one with the burden of proof, not me.
    - jokoon 5y ago
      > You're proposing that we hire people either at random That was your idea. People are generally pretty well aware of their skills. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_abolitionism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_abolitionism I never talked about business, and your example of C++ programmers is very very specific.