6 ms·

Are you saying it's beyond rescue because it's controlled by China?

tpmx 6y ago
Yes.
takeda 6y ago
Opera died to me after version 12 (the moment it essentially became Chrome with a different skin). I was their user since version 5 or 6 (this was before everyone started the crazy version system, back them they released a major version about once a year). The biggest things that I loved about the browser you couldn't get by extension, they could do many things because they could directly update the engine. Now learning that they are owned by PRC there's even less reasons for me to use it. Opera could have done a lot of good if they would open sourced their old browser (kind of line what Netscape did). Someone leaked the original source code, but because it was leaked and not officially published, no one wants to touch it. Anyway now it's too late, because it's way behind the current browsers.
mxcrossb 6y ago
No I think he’s saying it’s beyond rescue because first it went from a “good” country like Norway, to a “worse” country like Sweden, to an “even worse” country like Poland, to an “even more Wiesel country like China, and racist crap like this is popular on this website.
- pfraze 6y ago
  There are in fact reasons to distrust the Chinese state which have nothing to do with race.
  - mxcrossb 6y ago
    If that were the case he would have simply said “don’t use it because you can’t trust that the Chinese government won’t do something nefarious” and I’d have no complaint. But instead he wrote this progression wherein apparently Polish people are a step down the ladder of enlightened peoples just above the Chinese.
  - Black101 6y ago
    What are those reasons?
    - Sevastopol 6y ago
      The Chinese government cannot be trusted. PRC-based companies are required to cooperate with the state intelligence apparatus. Not that much different in the US and the US-aligned world, but at least there is more transparency, open discussion, and defiance. All the reasons (privacy/spying, government unaccountability, etc.) that would make basing a tech company in the US bad are worse in China. It does seem, though, many are (seemingly in bad faith) increasingly conflating criticism and scepticism of the Chinese government with racial or ethnic animosity. It is almost identical to how discussions surrounding the Israeli government are conflated (seemingly in bad faith) with anti-Semitism. E: spelling and placement
      - Black101 6y ago
        but is Opera operated by the Chinese Government? looks like it is from what you are saying but dang I have no clue.
        Sevastopol 6y ago
        > but is Opera operated by the Chinese Government? I said _cooperate_ (which means to assist someone or comply with their requests). I did not say Opera was operated by the Chinese government. > looks like it is from what you are saying but dang I have no clue. What I wrote might be confusing if someone did not know the definition of "cooperate", no fault. An example of what "cooperation" with a state might look like: https://www.wired.com/2014/09/feds-yahoo-fine-prism/ https://www.wired.com/2014/09/feds-yahoo-fine-prism/ -- https://archive.is/PsVTH https://archive.is/PsVTH . Or it might look like the various party cells within PRC-based companies.
        Black101 6y ago
        *required* to cooperate and cooperate are two different things.... i.e.: if I have to do what you say, I'm basically working for you (or a slave)
- tpmx 6y ago
  That's a weird theory. Also, I'm Swedish, not Norwegian.
Black101 6y ago
yes, he is racist ... nobody flagged me yet? I am surprised.

tpmx 6y ago

Yes.

Opera died to me after version 12 (the moment it essentially became Chrome with a different skin). I was their user since version 5 or 6 (this was before everyone started the crazy version system, back them they released a major version about once a year). The biggest things that I loved about the browser you couldn't get by extension, they could do many things because they could directly update the engine. Now learning that they are owned by PRC there's even less reasons for me to use it. Opera could have done a lot of good if they would open sourced their old browser (kind of line what Netscape did). Someone leaked the original source code, but because it was leaked and not officially published, no one wants to touch it. Anyway now it's too late, because it's way behind the current browsers.

mxcrossb 6y ago

No I think he’s saying it’s beyond rescue because first it went from a “good” country like Norway, to a “worse” country like Sweden, to an “even worse” country like Poland, to an “even more Wiesel country like China, and racist crap like this is popular on this website.

pfraze 6y ago
There are in fact reasons to distrust the Chinese state which have nothing to do with race.
- mxcrossb 6y ago
  If that were the case he would have simply said “don’t use it because you can’t trust that the Chinese government won’t do something nefarious” and I’d have no complaint. But instead he wrote this progression wherein apparently Polish people are a step down the ladder of enlightened peoples just above the Chinese.
- Black101 6y ago
  What are those reasons?
  - Sevastopol 6y ago
    The Chinese government cannot be trusted. PRC-based companies are required to cooperate with the state intelligence apparatus. Not that much different in the US and the US-aligned world, but at least there is more transparency, open discussion, and defiance. All the reasons (privacy/spying, government unaccountability, etc.) that would make basing a tech company in the US bad are worse in China. It does seem, though, many are (seemingly in bad faith) increasingly conflating criticism and scepticism of the Chinese government with racial or ethnic animosity. It is almost identical to how discussions surrounding the Israeli government are conflated (seemingly in bad faith) with anti-Semitism. E: spelling and placement
    - Black101 6y ago
      but is Opera operated by the Chinese Government? looks like it is from what you are saying but dang I have no clue.
      - Sevastopol 6y ago
        > but is Opera operated by the Chinese Government? I said _cooperate_ (which means to assist someone or comply with their requests). I did not say Opera was operated by the Chinese government. > looks like it is from what you are saying but dang I have no clue. What I wrote might be confusing if someone did not know the definition of "cooperate", no fault. An example of what "cooperation" with a state might look like: https://www.wired.com/2014/09/feds-yahoo-fine-prism/ https://www.wired.com/2014/09/feds-yahoo-fine-prism/ -- https://archive.is/PsVTH https://archive.is/PsVTH . Or it might look like the various party cells within PRC-based companies.
        Black101 6y ago
        *required* to cooperate and cooperate are two different things.... i.e.: if I have to do what you say, I'm basically working for you (or a slave)
tpmx 6y ago
That's a weird theory. Also, I'm Swedish, not Norwegian.

Black101 6y ago

yes, he is racist ... nobody flagged me yet? I am surprised.