5 ms·

US investigating attacks with hallmarks of ‘Havana syndrome’ near White House

50 points by adventured 6y ago

truxten 6y ago
The Wikipedia article[0], has some interesting speculation about this. Main ideas behind the cause seems to be either some directed energy pulse or potentially a ultrasound weapon. These kind of invisible weapons are utterly terrifying to me and I feel that they'll just become more prevalent in the coming decades. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_syndrome
- viro 6y ago
  So this a super hot take, but someone is asking for an ass whooping. This is basically an act of war. I'm going to just leave it at that. This isn't some random hack, kinetic attack demands kinetic response.
  - nickkell 6y ago
    Who exactly would you like to go to war with? The martians?
    - viro 6y ago
      Who ever is intently committing war crimes against diplomats on American soil. did you not read the brain damage part?
      - atat7024 6y ago
        Attribution is hard with digital attacks. In hacker communities, it's considered best practice to avoid making enemies — a good policy.
        ethanbond 6y ago
        As mentioned, this is a kinetic attack. Attribution will still be hard, but the motivation to attribute (correctly) will be much much higher than most cyber attacks.
  - atat7024 6y ago
    US won't do a thing if it interrupts the revenue revenue streams of the Elite.
    - w0de0 6y ago
      This is a sophomoric understanding of our complex nation and its many power centers. Cynicism is an easy masquerade for wisdom, but don’t fool yourself too.
      - lucas_codes 6y ago
        It's a short comment on the internet, it can be essentially correct (or not) without elaborating on societal complexities
  - encryptluks2 6y ago
    And what if the US was the one who created the technology and started using it first?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - viro 6y ago
      Who ever made the order to use it on non-soldiers in a non-combat zone should go to jail for life.
- nomel 6y ago
  It seems like some wideband audio and RF sensors would be able to easily detect this. If it's skull penetrating, I doubt you would even have to place them that densely to detect something out of the ordinary, regardless of the directionality of the source. There's probably a government contract opportunity for a wearable detector here.
- floam 6y ago
  The recent National Academies study for the Department of State seemed to not think it is ultrasonic: https://federalnewsnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Havana-Syndrome-report.pdf https://federalnewsnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Ha... Some kind of pulsed RF/microwave seemed to be the most likely?
  - thoughtstheseus 6y ago
    Thank you for sharing this. It’s helpful to see that others have put substantial work into this problem.
- vondur 6y ago
  How focused would this need to be to target this particular area? Shouldn’t we see people nearby also affected?
anitil 6y ago
This is making my spidey-sense tingle. It seems similar to Waubra disease (ie 'Wind Turbine Syndrome') [0]. A list of vague symptoms that no one can quite agree on, over a vague timeline. Think about the last 6 years. Have you or anyone around you had some weird health problems? How about the slightly older people that you know? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_turbine_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_turbine_syndrome
- jmole 6y ago
  I assume you're arguing here that this is "no big deal", but I think it's disingenuous at best to assume that no wind turbine installation has ever had problems with noise pollution, especially in the infrasound region. For millennia, we dismissed sailors' tales of rogue waves until we caught one with a scientific instrument.
  - anitil 6y ago
    I was just the only example I could think of where general negative health claims are made without specific evidence of harm. A rogue wave is a specific, provable event. This is more fuzzy like mysterious bad RF waves (or was is sonic waves?) from ... someone?... that maybe gives you a headache (or was it hearing loss? or brain damage?) but only for certain people. I definitely could be wrong, but like I said, it makes my spidey-sense tingle.
room505 6y ago
If you want to learn more from first hand accounts, listen to a former CIA agent talk about his experiences. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y5jTbsvd3rA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y5jTbsvd3rA "Wherein we are joined by Marc Polymeropoulos, former CIA officer and victim of what may an attack by a directed energy weapon. Polymeropoulos served 26 years in the CIA before retiring from the Senior Intelligence Service in June 2019. His positions included field and headquarters operational assignments covering the Middle East, Europe, Eurasia and CounterTerrorism. He is the recipient of the Distinguished Intelligence Medal, the Intelligence Commendation Medal, and the Intelligence Medal of Merit."
bigphishy 6y ago
Sigh, time to break out the faraday cages then.

50 points by adventured 6y ago

The Wikipedia article[0], has some interesting speculation about this. Main ideas behind the cause seems to be either some directed energy pulse or potentially a ultrasound weapon. These kind of invisible weapons are utterly terrifying to me and I feel that they'll just become more prevalent in the coming decades. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_syndrome

viro 6y ago
So this a super hot take, but someone is asking for an ass whooping. This is basically an act of war. I'm going to just leave it at that. This isn't some random hack, kinetic attack demands kinetic response.
- nickkell 6y ago
  Who exactly would you like to go to war with? The martians?
  - viro 6y ago
    Who ever is intently committing war crimes against diplomats on American soil. did you not read the brain damage part?
    - atat7024 6y ago
      Attribution is hard with digital attacks. In hacker communities, it's considered best practice to avoid making enemies — a good policy.
      - ethanbond 6y ago
        As mentioned, this is a kinetic attack. Attribution will still be hard, but the motivation to attribute (correctly) will be much much higher than most cyber attacks.
- atat7024 6y ago
  US won't do a thing if it interrupts the revenue revenue streams of the Elite.
  - w0de0 6y ago
    This is a sophomoric understanding of our complex nation and its many power centers. Cynicism is an easy masquerade for wisdom, but don’t fool yourself too.
    - lucas_codes 6y ago
      It's a short comment on the internet, it can be essentially correct (or not) without elaborating on societal complexities
- encryptluks2 6y ago
  And what if the US was the one who created the technology and started using it first?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - viro 6y ago
    Who ever made the order to use it on non-soldiers in a non-combat zone should go to jail for life.
nomel 6y ago
It seems like some wideband audio and RF sensors would be able to easily detect this. If it's skull penetrating, I doubt you would even have to place them that densely to detect something out of the ordinary, regardless of the directionality of the source. There's probably a government contract opportunity for a wearable detector here.
floam 6y ago
The recent National Academies study for the Department of State seemed to not think it is ultrasonic: https://federalnewsnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Havana-Syndrome-report.pdf https://federalnewsnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Ha... Some kind of pulsed RF/microwave seemed to be the most likely?
- thoughtstheseus 6y ago
  Thank you for sharing this. It’s helpful to see that others have put substantial work into this problem.
vondur 6y ago
How focused would this need to be to target this particular area? Shouldn’t we see people nearby also affected?

anitil 6y ago

This is making my spidey-sense tingle. It seems similar to Waubra disease (ie 'Wind Turbine Syndrome') [0]. A list of vague symptoms that no one can quite agree on, over a vague timeline. Think about the last 6 years. Have you or anyone around you had some weird health problems? How about the slightly older people that you know? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_turbine_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_turbine_syndrome

jmole 6y ago
I assume you're arguing here that this is "no big deal", but I think it's disingenuous at best to assume that no wind turbine installation has ever had problems with noise pollution, especially in the infrasound region. For millennia, we dismissed sailors' tales of rogue waves until we caught one with a scientific instrument.
- anitil 6y ago
  I was just the only example I could think of where general negative health claims are made without specific evidence of harm. A rogue wave is a specific, provable event. This is more fuzzy like mysterious bad RF waves (or was is sonic waves?) from ... someone?... that maybe gives you a headache (or was it hearing loss? or brain damage?) but only for certain people. I definitely could be wrong, but like I said, it makes my spidey-sense tingle.

room505 6y ago

If you want to learn more from first hand accounts, listen to a former CIA agent talk about his experiences. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y5jTbsvd3rA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y5jTbsvd3rA "Wherein we are joined by Marc Polymeropoulos, former CIA officer and victim of what may an attack by a directed energy weapon. Polymeropoulos served 26 years in the CIA before retiring from the Senior Intelligence Service in June 2019. His positions included field and headquarters operational assignments covering the Middle East, Europe, Eurasia and CounterTerrorism. He is the recipient of the Distinguished Intelligence Medal, the Intelligence Commendation Medal, and the Intelligence Medal of Merit."

bigphishy 6y ago

Sigh, time to break out the faraday cages then.