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For people w/ an EV, I have a question How do you do longer trips? I live in Colorado and go on multi day "camping" road trips. I'd be able to charge, but wha

For people w/ an EV, I have a question How do you do longer trips? I live in Colorado and go on multi day "camping" road trips. I'd be able to charge, but what's the time spent at a charging station along the way? How would I find a charger in the middle of nowhere Utah or Wyoming? Often even gas stations are pretty few and far between when you're not on the more main roads. It's only maybe 5% of my total miles, but it's the fun ones. In-town is a solved problem for sure, but seems less so for long distance, and often back-road travel.

fassssst 5y ago
Rent a gas car for those trips.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  Indeed. I would advise the same for people who consider buying a truck on the premise that every once in a while it would be handy to have for hauling something.
base698 5y ago
I had a Tesla Model S for about a year. Had several 6-8 hour trips which would require one or two charges and quite often day trips which required one stop. It helps to find charging stops with a Starbucks or something close by. Then you can just get a bite to eat and it's done when you get back. The charging stops more like a regular gas station I'd just walk slower and make sure to use the bathroom and browse every isle. It adds about triple the time for a stop. Not sure about non supercharger capable EVs. With a Tesla it's pretty close to same experience.
- mprovost 5y ago
  This smells like an opportunity to build some charging stations that provide more to do than a gas station. You could build a diner, with an arcade or mini golf or some attraction to keep people busy (and take more of their money) for a few hours while their cars are charging.
  - cptskippy 5y ago
    It definitely is an opportunity. Most charging takes 20+ minutes and you have a captive audience the entire time. A lot of Tesla Superchargers are in restaurant or hotel parking lots. We use to drive Atlanta to Asheville and would stop at a Supercharger in Greenville on the way up, it was in a hotel parking lot and the hotel lounge was setup to accommodate people stopping to charge with an array of snacks and drinks to purchase along with the restaurant and bar. I use to drive from Atlanta to Jellico regularly and would stop at a Supercharger in a strip mall within walking distance of shopping, a Starbucks, and three restaurants. We went to Joshua Tree from San Diego recently and stopped to charge along the way at an In-N-Out.
ericmay 5y ago
It really depends on the car. If you're in a Tesla, check out the map: https://www.tesla.com/supercharger https://www.tesla.com/supercharger So it's not perfect. The only time I've run into trouble was in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. We had to go charge at a slow rate in Marquette, Michigan (one of my favorite towns now) because there were no Super Chargers or overnight chargers available where we stayed "someone might trip over the cord". So if you get, say, a Tesla Model Y you're looking at probably around 300 miles of range in the summer time (less in winter or cold conditions). So you just need to be able to charge somewhere. It takes more planning for now. If you're with another car, I think it's not quite as good. Typically people will find a destination charger (i.e. stay at a hotel with an outlet to charge at). So you're likely to be in the smaller minority where they don't quite yet fit all of your use cases. Often times I tell people to plan for most of your use cases most of the time. For example, we are in our house or around town 95% of our lives. So I'm not going to stress out or over-optimize for that 5% when an electric car might be inconvenient. That's us though. It's an individual decision. It's nice that we can charge our standard range Model 3 fully (220 miles~ of charge) for $2.65 total. Much, much cheaper than gas. On the other hand we spent 8 lovely hours in Marquette charging our car. YMMV Charging times vary. We recently did about a 5 hour trip from Columbus to Michigan with a Tesla and spent 40 minutes charging (each way, a little more on the way up and less on the way back) - a couple of stops. One at a Meijer where we went in, walked around, got some snacks and used the restroom. Another at hotel lot where we just stood and stretched for a bit. That's with Tesla SuperCharging network though. We also were at a house and had a 110 outlet so just plugged in and when we went home we were at 97% so didn't have to charge as much on the way back home. Personally wouldn't do a long road trip with any other EV. -edit- It'll be gradual then sudden, but a lot of those convenient gas stations will be going away too as we shift toward electric vehicles. It won't be long before gas itself becomes inconvenient compared to electric as far as availability is concerned. For example, national parks can install electric chargers. They can't put in a gas station. As someone else mentioned, you probably are saving more time overall with an EV since if you charge at home you don't ever need to go to the gas station. I have to imagine that more than makes up for the time you spend stopping and charging on road trips. Would be interesting to see studies on this.
- dont__panic 5y ago
2trill2spill 5y ago
Exactly, I want to go visit the Deep Creek Mountains in western Utah, and I've heard that bringing your own gasoline is a good idea because of just how far the Deep Creeks are from a gas station or civilization for that matter. I love exploring the deserts of Utah, and that just wouldn't be possible with current electric vehicles.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  Absolutely, but the vast majority of drivers will never desire to or do this. This is like asking how to tow the Space Shuttle with your pickup truck. It can be done (Toyota did it with a Tundra pickup for marketing), but no one is selling into a market to do so. You’re better off outfitting a used 4x4 for overlanding (as @grecy did [1]). [1] http://theroadchoseme.com/the-jeep http://theroadchoseme.com/the-jeep
  - 2trill2spill 5y ago
    > This is like asking how to tow the Space Shuttle with your pickup truck. It can be done (Toyota did it with a Tundra pickup for marketing), but no one is selling into a market to do so. Sorry but that's a ridiculous comparison, I just want to be able to drive to places my current gasoline vehicle can travel to, but in an electric car. Also there are large numbers of people out west camping, climbing, skiing, etc on all sorts of remote backcountry roads far from services. Its the reason many of us live out here.
    - toomuchtodo 5y ago
      How many vehicles a year do you think get sold to folks who are going to be so far off the grid, they might consider jerrycans for fuel security? 10k? 20k? 17 million new cars a year are sold, for comparison. I admit you adventurous folks exist (and commend your wild spirit), just not in sufficient quantity to sell vehicles at volume, considering the average American light vehicle use case (a few road trips a year, ~40 mile daily round trip commutes).
      - 5y ago
ajross 5y ago
Define "middle of nowhere", I guess? Not a lot of places, even in Utah and Wyoming, are more than 100mi from an interstate. Also recognize that "a charger" is any building with an electrical drop. A regular 120v 15a plug in someone's wall will give you 100 miles of range in 6-7 hours. If they have a 240V dryer or cooktop or whatever you can cut that down to 1-2. You can play with tools at https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ to get some guidance as to how this would work. Broadly: EVs are absolutely going to be slower going on long road trips, but it's not that bad. A routine gas car trying to make good time will have an average driving pattern like "drive for four hours, stop for 15 minutes for gas/food/potty". So you're getting 16/17ths of your highway speed on average. A typical long range EV is more like "drive for two hours[1], stop at a supercharger for half an hour", which is more like 4/5ths efficiency. That's a net difference in average speed of 18%, or roughly the difference between someone on that interstate going 75mph vs. 65mph. Is that a killer problem? Up to you to decide. It wasn't for me. [1] The cars charge much faster with emptier batteries (just like your phone), so topping up isn't something you typically do on the road, you just put enough in to get to your next stop plus a safety margin.
- addflip 5y ago
  This. Also, don't forget you can always stay at a RV campsite and use their 240v plug to charge your car.
- 2trill2spill 5y ago
  > Define "middle of nowhere", I guess? Not a lot of places, even in Utah and Wyoming, are more than 100mi from an interstate. In Utah and Wyoming you can be on the interstate and still be far from a gas station[1]. I don't think most people who don't live out west are aware of how remote parts of this country truly are. [1]: https://www.deseret.com/2013/9/23/20526064/about-utah-no-bull-no-service-for-106-miles#fair-warning-motorists-see-this-billboard-well-before-the-salina-exit https://www.deseret.com/2013/9/23/20526064/about-utah-no-bul...
  - ajross 5y ago
    I've been there (though not recently and not in an EV). And you'll find charging of some form everywhere you find gas, including the stretch of I70 in that article. (Actually in this case it's trivial for Teslas: there are superchargers in both Green River and Richfield, 123mi apart. I don't see any non-Tesla DC supercharging in Green River though.) Check https://plugshare.com https://plugshare.com if you just want to see charging facilities. In general anywhere in the USA that is "on" an Interstate is solved problem for EVs. If you want to drive on I-whatever you're covered. The question above was about getting to remote areas far from infrastructure. And even there you need to work really hard to be far from a wall outlet. Again, incremental costs to build out (non-supercharger) vehicle charging is much cheaper than installing a gas station, because it's ultimately just freeloading on the long-established electrical infrastructure.
dabeeeenster 5y ago
One thing people forget (and that I have realised once I bought an EV) is that you save a lot of time never having to go out of your way to a petrol station for that 95%. Plugging in at home takes 10 seconds. That does add up to a fair amount of time saved over the year.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  I would bet the vast, vast majority of people pass a petrol station on their way home or to a destination such that going out of their way for petrol is a rarity.
  - dntrkv 5y ago
    Even driving a few blocks, having to stop and fill up, and then getting back on the route can easily take 10 minutes of your time. Being able to plug in at home and never worrying about filling up unless you're on a long drive will save you a ton of time. Not to mention the case where you're pressed for time and realize your car is on empty.
  - Kirby64 5y ago
    It's still an inconvenience. It's a minimum 5 minute detour, possibly more depending on your route, versus plugging in your car when you get home which adds maybe 10 seconds to your home routine.
- detaro 5y ago
  If you are in the subset of people for which that is an option.
JshWright 5y ago
This is a "cheating" answer, but we have a plug-in hybrid minivan. We get ~30 miles on the battery, which covers the vast majority of our day to day driving, but still have the ICE option for longer trips.
allannienhuis 5y ago
It completely depends on the vehicle, and what the charging options are where you're going. Teslas have pretty quick fast-charging options that may line up quite comfortably with ordinary travel breaks, some other vehicles may not. I think the reality is that people will need to accept that their use of the vehicle will just be a bit different than ICE vehicles for some cases. In some cases people will just need to have or rent or share specialty-purpose vehicles for things like camping or off-road experiences, at least until things like fast-charging stations are as common as gas stations are. Buying vehicles that are optimized for the 5% use case seems really wasteful, but we do it now because the real (environmental) cost of that inefficiency is not paid for directly by the consumer.
gameswithgo 5y ago
Tesla has a route planner that will show you what superchargers to stop at and about how long you will have to charge based on your car model. https://www.tesla.com/trips https://www.tesla.com/trips They tend to be located near places to eat which helps.
fossuser 5y ago
I only considered Tesla for this reason, the superchargers work - the other options suck. Non Tesla EVs can still be nice EVs, but today they’re city cars. I had a Fiat 500e before my Model 3, a great little EV (and absurdly cheap lease at ~$87/month) but I can take my Model 3 to Tahoe from the bay area easily and would never take the 500e there. I was hesitant to take the 500e from Palo Alto to SF.
- codeulike 5y ago
  Different in europe though, shorter distances and more chargers.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  Eh, we roadtrip in our Bolt, it's fine. We roadtripped in the Tesla, it was fine too. To go to grandma's house, which was way out in the sticks, we'd stop for a charge on the way there, and once on the way back, in either car. The biggest difference is that there are more DC fast charging locations for non-Tesla EVs but they tend to have fewer chargers per location. Superchargers are less common but there are more chargers at each location. Both chargers have less than stellar reliability, but I'd give Tesla the overall edge there. But the third-party networks are growing much faster overall, and the quality of their infrastructure is improving dramatically as well. At some point in the next couple years I expect Tesla will need to find a way to allow their cars to take advantage of these other fast-charging options, to stay competitive.
  - totheloop 5y ago
    Tesla vehicles already can, with adapters.
    - rootusrootus 5y ago
      Maybe in Europe. In the USA they definitely cannot. At least mine couldn't. Sure, I could use the adapter to do level 2 charging, but there is no provision to use DC fast chargers other than superchargers. *exception being CHAdeMO, but those are becoming so rare now as to be not worth consideration.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
revscat 5y ago
Adding to others: RV hookups. There are tons of these around, some further away from civilization than you’d think. They provide 220 hookups, which is plenty to get you charged up overnight.
- LeifCarrotson 5y ago
  Most RV campsites are set up for 30A at 120V over a NEMA TT-30R receptacle. Three pins, looks like a typical cord but the blades are rotated outwards by degrees: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector#NEMA_TT-30 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector#NEMA_TT-30 Only the really, really big ones are 240V split-phase with a NEMA 14-50R receptacle. It's a 4-pin connector, with an additional neutral blade, but it's not a twist-lock: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector#NEMA_14 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector#NEMA_14 It's not likely to break anything or hurt anyone if you know what you're doing, but with the ridiculous number of variations and non-standard wiring you'll find out there, be sure you do know what you're doing!
  - cptskippy 5y ago
    I haven't seen this with any other EV maker's chargers but Tesla sells an adapter kit for it's 2nd Gen Chargers. They have a 14-50 but there isn't a TT-30R however they have a 5-20 which can be mated to 5-30 with a passive adapter. Not ideal but better than nothing.
    - Kirby64 5y ago
      Proper way to use a TT-30R is to use a 14-30 or 6-30 and then adapt to the TT-30R. The Tesla adapters do not care what the voltage applied is. You can happily use a NEMA 14-50 adapter at 120V-50A, but it's kind of a stupid idea since power is so much lower.
      - cptskippy 5y ago
        That's cool, I didn't know that. I assumed the dongle somehow indicated to the charger what to expect.
dashundchen 5y ago
> I'd be able to charge, but what's the time spent at a charging station along the way? Charging is getting a lot faster as companies move to dedicated EV designs. Not out yet in North America, but the Hyundai Ioniq 5 will be able to go from 10 - 80% in 18 minutes. And that's only if you need to fill up on a longer trip, if you're just topping off you might only spend 5 minutes at a charging station. https://insideevs.com/news/501936/hyundai-ioniq5-fast-charging-example/ https://insideevs.com/news/501936/hyundai-ioniq5-fast-chargi...
Diederich 5y ago
> Often even gas stations are pretty few and far between when you're not on the more main roads. In addition to the other responses, I'll note that you can charge (for example) a Tesla at about 4 miles per hour with direct sunlight using a fairly portable solar setup. I've seen some demos of just that on youtube.
zhoujianfu 5y ago
I have a model X but a gas minivan for road trips. There’s no way around it, even “super”charging still sucks compared to filling up a gas tank. I do think when the cyber truck comes out with 500+ range that will change things... you should be able to only need to charge overnight even on road trips. But long term camping trips might still be an issue.. possibly solar panels on it will help a bit?!
- ericmay 5y ago
  Eh, Super Charging is 15-25 minutes. Gas fill up is about 3-5 minutes minimum and definitely more expensive. So I'd say they're closer to even, but w/e. I don't think solar panels will help though. You need too large of a solar array to make a difference. Would be nice though!
  - jsight 5y ago
    > Eh, Super Charging is 15-25 minutes. Gas fill up is about 3-5 minutes minimum and definitely more expensive. So I'd say they're closer to even, but w/e. In my experience, the biggest issue is location. If I had superchargers at every lunch/dinner stop, the difference would almost be unnoticeable.
    - ericmay 5y ago
      Yea definitely. They aren't always at the best spot. Sometimes we grab food on the way to the charger and then just eat it there. The best ones IMO are at grocery stores or nicer gas stations/travel centers.
      - jsight 5y ago
        Yeah, I've gone out of my way to go to the ones at Wawa sometimes. The worst are the hotel ones, IMO.
        ericmay 5y ago
        Yea definitely. Though I imagine quite nice if you’re staying at the hotel!
jobu 5y ago
The tech just isn't ready for that scenario, but I'm hopeful things will change rapidly in the next decade. It reminds me of when they phased out incandescent bulbs almost a decade ago (2012?). I always hated CFL lights so I bought a case of 75W incandescent bulbs before they were banned. Within a year or two the price for LED lights plummeted at the same time as the quality increased dramatically. I still have most of that case of incandescent bulbs in my basement, and I'll probably end up just tossing it.
- jbay808 5y ago
  Don't toss it, please put it on eBay. Incandescents are useful for specialty applications and I'm sure some people are hunting for them.
anonuser123456 5y ago
Simple; rent a vehicle for the trip.
smiley1437 5y ago
A BEV doesn't cover every usage scenario. I think most families thinking of getting an EV will end up owning 2 vehicles (one gas, one EV) for a while, to cover those edge cases.
jsight 5y ago
I have a Tesla rated for ~320 miles. On the highway (75mph), I see closer to 250 miles in the real world. My first charge stop will typically be around 200-220 miles way, last 20-30 minutes and provide enough range for another 150-180 miles. The most optimal way to travel in the Tesla is to stop for slightly less than 20 minutes but only travel another 120 miles before stopping, as peak charging rates are between 5 and 50%, but I don't typically bother to micro-optimize this much. I recommend playing with your start and destination addresses in https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ to see what they would look like with charging included. Its definitely a little slower than gas. Right now, the best speeds that you can average on a long trip are ~60mph inclusive of charging stops. That is pushing REALLY hard, though. I suspect most folks end up closer to 50mph.
dillon 5y ago
I just went on a long trip and going on a couple more in a few months. The Tesla navigation will autopilot you to the charging stations making it a something you don’t even need to think about. Most of the chargers are near food or shopping but we usually just take the time to stretch or get some fresh air. By the time your charge is low you definitely feel like you need a stretch anyways. We also went camping at an RV site and plugged the car in. We were able to run the heater while we slept in sleeping bags in the back. If we weren’t at an RV site we would have charged to 95% at a super charger and driven in and tent camped for 5 days and it would have been more than enough to get us back.
natch 5y ago
To just part of your question, in some western states (Colorado and New Mexico from personal experience, but maybe others) the local power company has installed public electric chargers in some towns, sometimes at their local office, or sometimes downtown. For example we wanted to take some smaller roads from Durango to Santa Fe via Pagosa Springs, and there was no Supercharger along the route. But there was a fast charger in Pagosa, so that filled our need. As to the time, we timed it for breakfast at a coffee shop there. It was about a 1 hour stop. The power company in Taos (northern NM) has chargers at their office. In that case, they are slow chargers, which is a bummer, but it's walking distance to restaurants and stores and things to do, and free, and it's enough to extend the range a bit and get you on your way to the next faster charger elsewhere. Almost everywhere there are chargers at hotels. For Teslas hotels often have Tesla connectors which are faster than the other hotel options. They often will allow you to plug in for a charge for a fee, even if you aren't a guest, on an as-needed basis in the daytime. For nighttime, I assume guests get priority. I haven't scoped out Wyoming. We did traverse Nevada and Utah and no problem with Superchargers but were only on small roads for some of the time. I mean if you are charged up to 300 miles, you can drive for (up to) 300 miles on small roads if you know there's a charger at the other end. Obviously I would build some margin into that. With Superchargers most stops are between 10 and 20 minutes, for me at least. Some people stay longer because they think you have to charge to full at every stop. This is wrong, and slows down your trip because topping up that last 20% gets slow, since charging slows down as you approach full charge. I've been from California to New Mexico and back four times, to Oregon and back twice, to San Diego once, to LA and back a bunch of times, and to the far side of Texas and back once. Way more enjoyable than in my old ICE cars. On longer trips if Superchargers are spaced out wider, the stops are slightly longer just because I like to keep a margin of extra range. If there's no Supercharger then there are sometimes fast chargers at Walmart, but usually fewer of them, so if you don't have a Tesla you have way fewer options. Major routes are very well covered. Minor routes, say going down through Ouray and Silverton, I would incorporate a hotel with a charger into my plans to charge overnight, but you should have a backup option because someone else could have occupied the hotel charger first. I don't know whether some hotels allow you to reserve a charger in advance. Haven't crossed that bridge yet but I imagine some do. This is all a moving target though as the system is being built out rapidly. I think hotels will start catching on that they need to add more capacity soon. The high order bit here is, and sorry for making it a company product endorsement, but if you're going to get an EV, get a Tesla. Way more options. Especially if you buy a CHAdeMO adapter (yucky, but useful). Non-Tesla drivers are going to get very familiar with Walmart, which is fine, but pretty limiting, and are probably going to be reluctant to go on road trips, pretty much the opposite of the Tesla experience. On the other hand. If something breaks, with a Tesla your car is going to be loaded onto a flatbed and carried far away to a Tesla Service Center somewhere, and you are not going to see it for a while! That's kind of a different topic though. They don't seem to break in such ways very often. Usually only when hit by an ICE car driver, lol. It's probably even worse with other EVs, some of which sell way smaller unit numbers, like the Kona — good luck finding service for that.
bryanlarsen 5y ago
I imagine that nowhere in Utah or Wyoming is more in the middle of nowhere than Northern Ontario. We did a road trip in an EV from Ottawa, ON to Saskatoon, SK and back. (3000km each way). The Tesla trip planner said we'd need to stop 9 times to charge, but we ended up stopping 18 times to charge because we needed to stop 17 times for the bathroom, eating or sleeping. Only once was the stop only for charging (15 minutes). One charger was broken on the trip out -- we had enough charge to make it to the next one, but only barely.

fassssst 5y ago

Rent a gas car for those trips.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
Indeed. I would advise the same for people who consider buying a truck on the premise that every once in a while it would be handy to have for hauling something.

base698 5y ago

I had a Tesla Model S for about a year. Had several 6-8 hour trips which would require one or two charges and quite often day trips which required one stop. It helps to find charging stops with a Starbucks or something close by. Then you can just get a bite to eat and it's done when you get back. The charging stops more like a regular gas station I'd just walk slower and make sure to use the bathroom and browse every isle. It adds about triple the time for a stop. Not sure about non supercharger capable EVs. With a Tesla it's pretty close to same experience.

mprovost 5y ago
This smells like an opportunity to build some charging stations that provide more to do than a gas station. You could build a diner, with an arcade or mini golf or some attraction to keep people busy (and take more of their money) for a few hours while their cars are charging.
- cptskippy 5y ago
  It definitely is an opportunity. Most charging takes 20+ minutes and you have a captive audience the entire time. A lot of Tesla Superchargers are in restaurant or hotel parking lots. We use to drive Atlanta to Asheville and would stop at a Supercharger in Greenville on the way up, it was in a hotel parking lot and the hotel lounge was setup to accommodate people stopping to charge with an array of snacks and drinks to purchase along with the restaurant and bar. I use to drive from Atlanta to Jellico regularly and would stop at a Supercharger in a strip mall within walking distance of shopping, a Starbucks, and three restaurants. We went to Joshua Tree from San Diego recently and stopped to charge along the way at an In-N-Out.

ericmay 5y ago

It really depends on the car. If you're in a Tesla, check out the map: https://www.tesla.com/supercharger https://www.tesla.com/supercharger So it's not perfect. The only time I've run into trouble was in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. We had to go charge at a slow rate in Marquette, Michigan (one of my favorite towns now) because there were no Super Chargers or overnight chargers available where we stayed "someone might trip over the cord". So if you get, say, a Tesla Model Y you're looking at probably around 300 miles of range in the summer time (less in winter or cold conditions). So you just need to be able to charge somewhere. It takes more planning for now. If you're with another car, I think it's not quite as good. Typically people will find a destination charger (i.e. stay at a hotel with an outlet to charge at). So you're likely to be in the smaller minority where they don't quite yet fit all of your use cases. Often times I tell people to plan for most of your use cases most of the time. For example, we are in our house or around town 95% of our lives. So I'm not going to stress out or over-optimize for that 5% when an electric car might be inconvenient. That's us though. It's an individual decision. It's nice that we can charge our standard range Model 3 fully (220 miles~ of charge) for $2.65 total. Much, much cheaper than gas. On the other hand we spent 8 lovely hours in Marquette charging our car. YMMV Charging times vary. We recently did about a 5 hour trip from Columbus to Michigan with a Tesla and spent 40 minutes charging (each way, a little more on the way up and less on the way back) - a couple of stops. One at a Meijer where we went in, walked around, got some snacks and used the restroom. Another at hotel lot where we just stood and stretched for a bit. That's with Tesla SuperCharging network though. We also were at a house and had a 110 outlet so just plugged in and when we went home we were at 97% so didn't have to charge as much on the way back home. Personally wouldn't do a long road trip with any other EV. -edit- It'll be gradual then sudden, but a lot of those convenient gas stations will be going away too as we shift toward electric vehicles. It won't be long before gas itself becomes inconvenient compared to electric as far as availability is concerned. For example, national parks can install electric chargers. They can't put in a gas station. As someone else mentioned, you probably are saving more time overall with an EV since if you charge at home you don't ever need to go to the gas station. I have to imagine that more than makes up for the time you spend stopping and charging on road trips. Would be interesting to see studies on this.

dont__panic 5y ago

2trill2spill 5y ago

Exactly, I want to go visit the Deep Creek Mountains in western Utah, and I've heard that bringing your own gasoline is a good idea because of just how far the Deep Creeks are from a gas station or civilization for that matter. I love exploring the deserts of Utah, and that just wouldn't be possible with current electric vehicles.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
Absolutely, but the vast majority of drivers will never desire to or do this. This is like asking how to tow the Space Shuttle with your pickup truck. It can be done (Toyota did it with a Tundra pickup for marketing), but no one is selling into a market to do so. You’re better off outfitting a used 4x4 for overlanding (as @grecy did [1]). [1] http://theroadchoseme.com/the-jeep http://theroadchoseme.com/the-jeep
- 2trill2spill 5y ago
  > This is like asking how to tow the Space Shuttle with your pickup truck. It can be done (Toyota did it with a Tundra pickup for marketing), but no one is selling into a market to do so. Sorry but that's a ridiculous comparison, I just want to be able to drive to places my current gasoline vehicle can travel to, but in an electric car. Also there are large numbers of people out west camping, climbing, skiing, etc on all sorts of remote backcountry roads far from services. Its the reason many of us live out here.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    How many vehicles a year do you think get sold to folks who are going to be so far off the grid, they might consider jerrycans for fuel security? 10k? 20k? 17 million new cars a year are sold, for comparison. I admit you adventurous folks exist (and commend your wild spirit), just not in sufficient quantity to sell vehicles at volume, considering the average American light vehicle use case (a few road trips a year, ~40 mile daily round trip commutes).
    - 5y ago

ajross 5y ago

Define "middle of nowhere", I guess? Not a lot of places, even in Utah and Wyoming, are more than 100mi from an interstate. Also recognize that "a charger" is any building with an electrical drop. A regular 120v 15a plug in someone's wall will give you 100 miles of range in 6-7 hours. If they have a 240V dryer or cooktop or whatever you can cut that down to 1-2. You can play with tools at https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ to get some guidance as to how this would work. Broadly: EVs are absolutely going to be slower going on long road trips, but it's not that bad. A routine gas car trying to make good time will have an average driving pattern like "drive for four hours, stop for 15 minutes for gas/food/potty". So you're getting 16/17ths of your highway speed on average. A typical long range EV is more like "drive for two hours[1], stop at a supercharger for half an hour", which is more like 4/5ths efficiency. That's a net difference in average speed of 18%, or roughly the difference between someone on that interstate going 75mph vs. 65mph. Is that a killer problem? Up to you to decide. It wasn't for me. [1] The cars charge much faster with emptier batteries (just like your phone), so topping up isn't something you typically do on the road, you just put enough in to get to your next stop plus a safety margin.

addflip 5y ago
This. Also, don't forget you can always stay at a RV campsite and use their 240v plug to charge your car.
2trill2spill 5y ago
> Define "middle of nowhere", I guess? Not a lot of places, even in Utah and Wyoming, are more than 100mi from an interstate. In Utah and Wyoming you can be on the interstate and still be far from a gas station[1]. I don't think most people who don't live out west are aware of how remote parts of this country truly are. [1]: https://www.deseret.com/2013/9/23/20526064/about-utah-no-bull-no-service-for-106-miles#fair-warning-motorists-see-this-billboard-well-before-the-salina-exit https://www.deseret.com/2013/9/23/20526064/about-utah-no-bul...
- ajross 5y ago
  I've been there (though not recently and not in an EV). And you'll find charging of some form everywhere you find gas, including the stretch of I70 in that article. (Actually in this case it's trivial for Teslas: there are superchargers in both Green River and Richfield, 123mi apart. I don't see any non-Tesla DC supercharging in Green River though.) Check https://plugshare.com https://plugshare.com if you just want to see charging facilities. In general anywhere in the USA that is "on" an Interstate is solved problem for EVs. If you want to drive on I-whatever you're covered. The question above was about getting to remote areas far from infrastructure. And even there you need to work really hard to be far from a wall outlet. Again, incremental costs to build out (non-supercharger) vehicle charging is much cheaper than installing a gas station, because it's ultimately just freeloading on the long-established electrical infrastructure.

dabeeeenster 5y ago

One thing people forget (and that I have realised once I bought an EV) is that you save a lot of time never having to go out of your way to a petrol station for that 95%. Plugging in at home takes 10 seconds. That does add up to a fair amount of time saved over the year.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
I would bet the vast, vast majority of people pass a petrol station on their way home or to a destination such that going out of their way for petrol is a rarity.
- dntrkv 5y ago
  Even driving a few blocks, having to stop and fill up, and then getting back on the route can easily take 10 minutes of your time. Being able to plug in at home and never worrying about filling up unless you're on a long drive will save you a ton of time. Not to mention the case where you're pressed for time and realize your car is on empty.
- Kirby64 5y ago
  It's still an inconvenience. It's a minimum 5 minute detour, possibly more depending on your route, versus plugging in your car when you get home which adds maybe 10 seconds to your home routine.
detaro 5y ago
If you are in the subset of people for which that is an option.

JshWright 5y ago

This is a "cheating" answer, but we have a plug-in hybrid minivan. We get ~30 miles on the battery, which covers the vast majority of our day to day driving, but still have the ICE option for longer trips.

allannienhuis 5y ago

It completely depends on the vehicle, and what the charging options are where you're going. Teslas have pretty quick fast-charging options that may line up quite comfortably with ordinary travel breaks, some other vehicles may not. I think the reality is that people will need to accept that their use of the vehicle will just be a bit different than ICE vehicles for some cases. In some cases people will just need to have or rent or share specialty-purpose vehicles for things like camping or off-road experiences, at least until things like fast-charging stations are as common as gas stations are. Buying vehicles that are optimized for the 5% use case seems really wasteful, but we do it now because the real (environmental) cost of that inefficiency is not paid for directly by the consumer.

gameswithgo 5y ago

Tesla has a route planner that will show you what superchargers to stop at and about how long you will have to charge based on your car model. https://www.tesla.com/trips https://www.tesla.com/trips They tend to be located near places to eat which helps.

fossuser 5y ago

I only considered Tesla for this reason, the superchargers work - the other options suck. Non Tesla EVs can still be nice EVs, but today they’re city cars. I had a Fiat 500e before my Model 3, a great little EV (and absurdly cheap lease at ~$87/month) but I can take my Model 3 to Tahoe from the bay area easily and would never take the 500e there. I was hesitant to take the 500e from Palo Alto to SF.

codeulike 5y ago
Different in europe though, shorter distances and more chargers.
rootusrootus 5y ago
Eh, we roadtrip in our Bolt, it's fine. We roadtripped in the Tesla, it was fine too. To go to grandma's house, which was way out in the sticks, we'd stop for a charge on the way there, and once on the way back, in either car. The biggest difference is that there are more DC fast charging locations for non-Tesla EVs but they tend to have fewer chargers per location. Superchargers are less common but there are more chargers at each location. Both chargers have less than stellar reliability, but I'd give Tesla the overall edge there. But the third-party networks are growing much faster overall, and the quality of their infrastructure is improving dramatically as well. At some point in the next couple years I expect Tesla will need to find a way to allow their cars to take advantage of these other fast-charging options, to stay competitive.
- totheloop 5y ago
  Tesla vehicles already can, with adapters.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    Maybe in Europe. In the USA they definitely cannot. At least mine couldn't. Sure, I could use the adapter to do level 2 charging, but there is no provision to use DC fast chargers other than superchargers. *exception being CHAdeMO, but those are becoming so rare now as to be not worth consideration.

deleted 5y ago

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revscat 5y ago

Adding to others: RV hookups. There are tons of these around, some further away from civilization than you’d think. They provide 220 hookups, which is plenty to get you charged up overnight.

LeifCarrotson 5y ago
Most RV campsites are set up for 30A at 120V over a NEMA TT-30R receptacle. Three pins, looks like a typical cord but the blades are rotated outwards by degrees: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector#NEMA_TT-30 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector#NEMA_TT-30 Only the really, really big ones are 240V split-phase with a NEMA 14-50R receptacle. It's a 4-pin connector, with an additional neutral blade, but it's not a twist-lock: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector#NEMA_14 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector#NEMA_14 It's not likely to break anything or hurt anyone if you know what you're doing, but with the ridiculous number of variations and non-standard wiring you'll find out there, be sure you do know what you're doing!
- cptskippy 5y ago
  I haven't seen this with any other EV maker's chargers but Tesla sells an adapter kit for it's 2nd Gen Chargers. They have a 14-50 but there isn't a TT-30R however they have a 5-20 which can be mated to 5-30 with a passive adapter. Not ideal but better than nothing.
  - Kirby64 5y ago
    Proper way to use a TT-30R is to use a 14-30 or 6-30 and then adapt to the TT-30R. The Tesla adapters do not care what the voltage applied is. You can happily use a NEMA 14-50 adapter at 120V-50A, but it's kind of a stupid idea since power is so much lower.
    - cptskippy 5y ago
      That's cool, I didn't know that. I assumed the dongle somehow indicated to the charger what to expect.

dashundchen 5y ago

> I'd be able to charge, but what's the time spent at a charging station along the way? Charging is getting a lot faster as companies move to dedicated EV designs. Not out yet in North America, but the Hyundai Ioniq 5 will be able to go from 10 - 80% in 18 minutes. And that's only if you need to fill up on a longer trip, if you're just topping off you might only spend 5 minutes at a charging station. https://insideevs.com/news/501936/hyundai-ioniq5-fast-charging-example/ https://insideevs.com/news/501936/hyundai-ioniq5-fast-chargi...

Diederich 5y ago

> Often even gas stations are pretty few and far between when you're not on the more main roads. In addition to the other responses, I'll note that you can charge (for example) a Tesla at about 4 miles per hour with direct sunlight using a fairly portable solar setup. I've seen some demos of just that on youtube.

zhoujianfu 5y ago

I have a model X but a gas minivan for road trips. There’s no way around it, even “super”charging still sucks compared to filling up a gas tank. I do think when the cyber truck comes out with 500+ range that will change things... you should be able to only need to charge overnight even on road trips. But long term camping trips might still be an issue.. possibly solar panels on it will help a bit?!

ericmay 5y ago
Eh, Super Charging is 15-25 minutes. Gas fill up is about 3-5 minutes minimum and definitely more expensive. So I'd say they're closer to even, but w/e. I don't think solar panels will help though. You need too large of a solar array to make a difference. Would be nice though!
- jsight 5y ago
  > Eh, Super Charging is 15-25 minutes. Gas fill up is about 3-5 minutes minimum and definitely more expensive. So I'd say they're closer to even, but w/e. In my experience, the biggest issue is location. If I had superchargers at every lunch/dinner stop, the difference would almost be unnoticeable.
  - ericmay 5y ago
    Yea definitely. They aren't always at the best spot. Sometimes we grab food on the way to the charger and then just eat it there. The best ones IMO are at grocery stores or nicer gas stations/travel centers.
    - jsight 5y ago
      Yeah, I've gone out of my way to go to the ones at Wawa sometimes. The worst are the hotel ones, IMO.
      - ericmay 5y ago
        Yea definitely. Though I imagine quite nice if you’re staying at the hotel!

jobu 5y ago

The tech just isn't ready for that scenario, but I'm hopeful things will change rapidly in the next decade. It reminds me of when they phased out incandescent bulbs almost a decade ago (2012?). I always hated CFL lights so I bought a case of 75W incandescent bulbs before they were banned. Within a year or two the price for LED lights plummeted at the same time as the quality increased dramatically. I still have most of that case of incandescent bulbs in my basement, and I'll probably end up just tossing it.

jbay808 5y ago
Don't toss it, please put it on eBay. Incandescents are useful for specialty applications and I'm sure some people are hunting for them.

anonuser123456 5y ago

Simple; rent a vehicle for the trip.

smiley1437 5y ago

A BEV doesn't cover every usage scenario. I think most families thinking of getting an EV will end up owning 2 vehicles (one gas, one EV) for a while, to cover those edge cases.

jsight 5y ago

I have a Tesla rated for ~320 miles. On the highway (75mph), I see closer to 250 miles in the real world. My first charge stop will typically be around 200-220 miles way, last 20-30 minutes and provide enough range for another 150-180 miles. The most optimal way to travel in the Tesla is to stop for slightly less than 20 minutes but only travel another 120 miles before stopping, as peak charging rates are between 5 and 50%, but I don't typically bother to micro-optimize this much. I recommend playing with your start and destination addresses in https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ to see what they would look like with charging included. Its definitely a little slower than gas. Right now, the best speeds that you can average on a long trip are ~60mph inclusive of charging stops. That is pushing REALLY hard, though. I suspect most folks end up closer to 50mph.

dillon 5y ago

I just went on a long trip and going on a couple more in a few months. The Tesla navigation will autopilot you to the charging stations making it a something you don’t even need to think about. Most of the chargers are near food or shopping but we usually just take the time to stretch or get some fresh air. By the time your charge is low you definitely feel like you need a stretch anyways. We also went camping at an RV site and plugged the car in. We were able to run the heater while we slept in sleeping bags in the back. If we weren’t at an RV site we would have charged to 95% at a super charger and driven in and tent camped for 5 days and it would have been more than enough to get us back.

natch 5y ago

To just part of your question, in some western states (Colorado and New Mexico from personal experience, but maybe others) the local power company has installed public electric chargers in some towns, sometimes at their local office, or sometimes downtown. For example we wanted to take some smaller roads from Durango to Santa Fe via Pagosa Springs, and there was no Supercharger along the route. But there was a fast charger in Pagosa, so that filled our need. As to the time, we timed it for breakfast at a coffee shop there. It was about a 1 hour stop. The power company in Taos (northern NM) has chargers at their office. In that case, they are slow chargers, which is a bummer, but it's walking distance to restaurants and stores and things to do, and free, and it's enough to extend the range a bit and get you on your way to the next faster charger elsewhere. Almost everywhere there are chargers at hotels. For Teslas hotels often have Tesla connectors which are faster than the other hotel options. They often will allow you to plug in for a charge for a fee, even if you aren't a guest, on an as-needed basis in the daytime. For nighttime, I assume guests get priority. I haven't scoped out Wyoming. We did traverse Nevada and Utah and no problem with Superchargers but were only on small roads for some of the time. I mean if you are charged up to 300 miles, you can drive for (up to) 300 miles on small roads if you know there's a charger at the other end. Obviously I would build some margin into that. With Superchargers most stops are between 10 and 20 minutes, for me at least. Some people stay longer because they think you have to charge to full at every stop. This is wrong, and slows down your trip because topping up that last 20% gets slow, since charging slows down as you approach full charge. I've been from California to New Mexico and back four times, to Oregon and back twice, to San Diego once, to LA and back a bunch of times, and to the far side of Texas and back once. Way more enjoyable than in my old ICE cars. On longer trips if Superchargers are spaced out wider, the stops are slightly longer just because I like to keep a margin of extra range. If there's no Supercharger then there are sometimes fast chargers at Walmart, but usually fewer of them, so if you don't have a Tesla you have way fewer options. Major routes are very well covered. Minor routes, say going down through Ouray and Silverton, I would incorporate a hotel with a charger into my plans to charge overnight, but you should have a backup option because someone else could have occupied the hotel charger first. I don't know whether some hotels allow you to reserve a charger in advance. Haven't crossed that bridge yet but I imagine some do. This is all a moving target though as the system is being built out rapidly. I think hotels will start catching on that they need to add more capacity soon. The high order bit here is, and sorry for making it a company product endorsement, but if you're going to get an EV, get a Tesla. Way more options. Especially if you buy a CHAdeMO adapter (yucky, but useful). Non-Tesla drivers are going to get very familiar with Walmart, which is fine, but pretty limiting, and are probably going to be reluctant to go on road trips, pretty much the opposite of the Tesla experience. On the other hand. If something breaks, with a Tesla your car is going to be loaded onto a flatbed and carried far away to a Tesla Service Center somewhere, and you are not going to see it for a while! That's kind of a different topic though. They don't seem to break in such ways very often. Usually only when hit by an ICE car driver, lol. It's probably even worse with other EVs, some of which sell way smaller unit numbers, like the Kona — good luck finding service for that.

bryanlarsen 5y ago

I imagine that nowhere in Utah or Wyoming is more in the middle of nowhere than Northern Ontario. We did a road trip in an EV from Ottawa, ON to Saskatoon, SK and back. (3000km each way). The Tesla trip planner said we'd need to stop 9 times to charge, but we ended up stopping 18 times to charge because we needed to stop 17 times for the bathroom, eating or sleeping. Only once was the stop only for charging (15 minutes). One charger was broken on the trip out -- we had enough charge to make it to the next one, but only barely.