5 ms·

I never understood the hate Nano gets from vi users. Nano does many things quicker and easier than vi. For example, search & replace. Would I code in Nano? No.

I never understood the hate Nano gets from vi users. Nano does many things quicker and easier than vi. For example, search & replace. Would I code in Nano? No. Do I use Nano to edit configuration files and make other small edits? Absolutely.

minikites 5y ago
>I never understood the hate Nano gets from vi users. They need to justify all the time they spent learning and configuring vi/vim to themselves and to others.
- baseballdork 5y ago
  That's pretty dismissive. I used nano early on and moved to vim and loved it. I think other people might have a similar experience as me so I encourage them to try vim or emacs if they're up for it. I'm not trying to justify my time in vim, I'm trying to encourage people to see if they might appreciate the tool as much as I do.
  - minikites 5y ago
    It doesn't sound like you hate nano though, so my comment doesn't apply to you or people like you.
- mettamage 5y ago
  Not really, I don't configure vim and all my skills w.r.t. vim are via vimtutor. Cost of learning: 1 hour (when I was bored on a long train ride and didn't have access to internet). I did the tutorial 3 times. The basics of vim are easy to learn. Caveat: I do remember I had like 5 false starts in learning vim (and remembering nothing). This was before I knew vimtutor and googled for random tutorials. IMO, a lot of vim tutorials make out the vim basics to be much more complicated than they are. Vimtutor doesn't, vimtutor is the perfect example of a magic bullet. Just type vimtutor in the CLI and go.
- apocolyps6 5y ago
  > All those C programmers hating on python are probably just bitter they had to waste all that time learning pointers.
rubyist5eva 5y ago
Linus Torvalds recently did an interview and I was suprised to read that he was considering switching from his micro-emacs setup to Nano. If it's Linus approved, how can I say something is bad? ;)
- unixhero 5y ago
  Did you read the whole interview? He repeats the same statements, well basically because he was Asker the same stuff as always. Now his statements are zen level pragmatic. He doesn't want to get into a new editor that gets in his way. I admit it is kind of underwhelming to read his answers. I am always hoping for some tidbits where he can state that he has seen the way. But for the most part it just pure hard work and true expertise of the systems programming domain. I guess the thing is evidence that true innovation often is rigorous and dry engineering. So, nano, why not. I for one use jed. I also finally learnt how to exit vim.
  - rubyist5eva 5y ago
    > I admit it is kind of underwhelming to read his answers. I am always hoping for some tidbits where he can state that he has seen the way. But for the most part it just pure hard work and true expertise of the systems programming domain. I guess the thing is evidence that true innovation often is rigorous and dry engineering. Maybe it's because my day job is web development working with overly hyped up hipster front end developers (I'm a backend dev myself) - but I found his rather plain answers with no "eureka" in it to be quit refreshing. Linus is one of my heroes specifically because the primary focus in kernel development must be intense focus on fundamentals. I got into programming because of people like Linus so it's refreshing (to me) to here that being "boring" is just fine and even if you are boring you can still be a titan of industry by just being _that damn good_.
- circularfoyers 5y ago
  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is the interview you are referring to https://www.tag1consulting.com/blog/interview-linus-torvalds-linux-and-git https://www.tag1consulting.com/blog/interview-linus-torvalds... in case anyone was curious like I was.
PedroBatista 5y ago
That's the same as a IntelliJ hating on Notepad.exe, it's ridiculous. For what Nano is mostly used for, Nano has won.
ngcazz 5y ago
Don't mean to hate on Nano, but after all these years gaining inordinate vim muscle memory, an unexpected `VISUAL=/usr/bin/nano` default feels to me like a vim prompt must feel to a newbie.
- mettamage 5y ago
  Not to me, currently a vim user and irritated by nano. Back in the day when vim would open it felt more as if my whole computer broke and nothing in the universe made sense anymore. Nowadays with nano, I simply feel and think: ugghhh soo SLOW! I wonder how other people experience it :P
  - hajile 5y ago
    I find nano a bit frustrating to arrow around in. Maybe someone could add vim binding support...
    - tpoacher 5y ago
      I'm genuinely interested what you mean by this. What kind of navigating functions do you miss from vim when in nano? I'm almost 99% sure that they already exist (and if not, are perfectly scriptable to make).
      - sagarm 5y ago
        Why would a vim user configure nano to act like vim when they could just use vim?
mettamage 5y ago
IMO both vim and nano are perfectly fine tools. IMO the emotional gripes that people have with them are really more preferences in a world where everything is already near perfect. Or maybe that's just me. Nano, vim, it's all good, but for the past 3 years I strongly prefer vim :P (before that I prefered nano because I couldn't find a good vim tutorial)
bsharitt 5y ago
>Nano does many things quicker and easier than vi. For example, search & replace. There may be instances where Nano does something quicker but search and replace would seem to be a perfect example of the opposite where Nano has taken a quick one line thing in vi and turned it into a multistep process for simplicity.
- kijin 5y ago
  Exactly. And that can be extremely useful for people who either don't want to or can't memorize the vi one-liner. Nano is different from vi because it targets a different set of users. Many of them use the terminal infrequently, so you can't assume they'll ever build up the kind of muscle memory that makes vi so efficient. You can't even assume that they'll remember any commands, so the commands are displayed prominently at the bottom. There's a reason so many Ubuntu tutorials for beginners use nano instead of vi.
chapium 5y ago
I can't be bothered by a tool I don't use.
bidirectional 5y ago
The problem is that every time vim is mentioned, there are dozens of comments about how nano is a better alternative, which is completely missing the point. Most vim users are using it all day as their main editor for various purposes, and most nano users are using it as a quick tool for small edits. They're largely incomparable.
aflag 5y ago
I'm intrigued. How do you search and replace in nano and how can it be better than `:%s/<regex>/<replacement>/gc`? I thought search and replacement was one of the killer features of vim.
- bear8642 5y ago
  Search replace in nano via "Where is" (^W), "Replace" (^R), "Regexp"(M-R).
- edoceo 5y ago
  I can't remember how but nano has the bottom two lines showing common actions and their key-commands, so the answer is on screen.
  - aflag 5y ago
    Nano is definitely more friendly for the untrained user, but I thought they were saying it was better for a user that is well versed in both.
- tpoacher 5y ago
  In nano the equivalent command (as keystrokes) would be: '^\' (or 'M-R') to enter 'replace' mode <search term> (M-R to toggle 'regex' mode on off) <replacement> 'A' to 'replace all' (or you can replace interactively) And if you really want to shave off the extra 2 keystrokes for the 'M-R' toggle and 'A' option, you can always create a new macro in your config file that does just that.
patrec 5y ago
> I never understood the hate Nano gets from vi users. The reason I hate nano was that it's been forced upon me for in my view entirely misguided attempt to make the commandline more approachable. So that now instead of any competent unix person needing to have at least minimal skills with two arcane (but powerful) editors (vi - for editing, and emacs for shell keybindings at least), you now also need minimal skills with an essentially equally arcane but not at all powerful or, useful editor (once you have basic competence with either emacs or vi at least). Wouldn't it have been much better to have provided a friendlier vi(m) config by default, given that this was already the default editor on any unix system before nano came along and there is actually some fair amount of benefit in learning it, because it's a powerful and widely supported set of keybindings (emacs and every major IDE have good vim emulation these days)?
- ravi-delia 5y ago
  Who is forcing nano on you? Why do they get to tell you what text editor to use? Blink twice if someone is holding you hostage at your computer, no one deserves a life of nano use.
  - 1MachineElf 5y ago
    Both the GuixSD and NixOS default system packages have nano and not vi. If you realize that you want vi, then you have to get it networked and change the configuration, all using nano, in order to install it.
  - patrec 5y ago
    If you have an IT career and ever advance far enough in it, chances are pretty good that you will eventually need to log into various types of servers, vms, container images that you either have no administrative control over or where this administrative control is not best used to switch around standard editor choices to suit your personal convenience.

minikites 5y ago

>I never understood the hate Nano gets from vi users. They need to justify all the time they spent learning and configuring vi/vim to themselves and to others.

baseballdork 5y ago
That's pretty dismissive. I used nano early on and moved to vim and loved it. I think other people might have a similar experience as me so I encourage them to try vim or emacs if they're up for it. I'm not trying to justify my time in vim, I'm trying to encourage people to see if they might appreciate the tool as much as I do.
- minikites 5y ago
  It doesn't sound like you hate nano though, so my comment doesn't apply to you or people like you.
mettamage 5y ago
Not really, I don't configure vim and all my skills w.r.t. vim are via vimtutor. Cost of learning: 1 hour (when I was bored on a long train ride and didn't have access to internet). I did the tutorial 3 times. The basics of vim are easy to learn. Caveat: I do remember I had like 5 false starts in learning vim (and remembering nothing). This was before I knew vimtutor and googled for random tutorials. IMO, a lot of vim tutorials make out the vim basics to be much more complicated than they are. Vimtutor doesn't, vimtutor is the perfect example of a magic bullet. Just type vimtutor in the CLI and go.
apocolyps6 5y ago
> All those C programmers hating on python are probably just bitter they had to waste all that time learning pointers.

rubyist5eva 5y ago

Linus Torvalds recently did an interview and I was suprised to read that he was considering switching from his micro-emacs setup to Nano. If it's Linus approved, how can I say something is bad? ;)

unixhero 5y ago
Did you read the whole interview? He repeats the same statements, well basically because he was Asker the same stuff as always. Now his statements are zen level pragmatic. He doesn't want to get into a new editor that gets in his way. I admit it is kind of underwhelming to read his answers. I am always hoping for some tidbits where he can state that he has seen the way. But for the most part it just pure hard work and true expertise of the systems programming domain. I guess the thing is evidence that true innovation often is rigorous and dry engineering. So, nano, why not. I for one use jed. I also finally learnt how to exit vim.
- rubyist5eva 5y ago
  > I admit it is kind of underwhelming to read his answers. I am always hoping for some tidbits where he can state that he has seen the way. But for the most part it just pure hard work and true expertise of the systems programming domain. I guess the thing is evidence that true innovation often is rigorous and dry engineering. Maybe it's because my day job is web development working with overly hyped up hipster front end developers (I'm a backend dev myself) - but I found his rather plain answers with no "eureka" in it to be quit refreshing. Linus is one of my heroes specifically because the primary focus in kernel development must be intense focus on fundamentals. I got into programming because of people like Linus so it's refreshing (to me) to here that being "boring" is just fine and even if you are boring you can still be a titan of industry by just being _that damn good_.
circularfoyers 5y ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is the interview you are referring to https://www.tag1consulting.com/blog/interview-linus-torvalds-linux-and-git https://www.tag1consulting.com/blog/interview-linus-torvalds... in case anyone was curious like I was.

PedroBatista 5y ago

That's the same as a IntelliJ hating on Notepad.exe, it's ridiculous. For what Nano is mostly used for, Nano has won.

ngcazz 5y ago

Don't mean to hate on Nano, but after all these years gaining inordinate vim muscle memory, an unexpected `VISUAL=/usr/bin/nano` default feels to me like a vim prompt must feel to a newbie.

mettamage 5y ago
Not to me, currently a vim user and irritated by nano. Back in the day when vim would open it felt more as if my whole computer broke and nothing in the universe made sense anymore. Nowadays with nano, I simply feel and think: ugghhh soo SLOW! I wonder how other people experience it :P
- hajile 5y ago
  I find nano a bit frustrating to arrow around in. Maybe someone could add vim binding support...
  - tpoacher 5y ago
    I'm genuinely interested what you mean by this. What kind of navigating functions do you miss from vim when in nano? I'm almost 99% sure that they already exist (and if not, are perfectly scriptable to make).
    - sagarm 5y ago
      Why would a vim user configure nano to act like vim when they could just use vim?

mettamage 5y ago

IMO both vim and nano are perfectly fine tools. IMO the emotional gripes that people have with them are really more preferences in a world where everything is already near perfect. Or maybe that's just me. Nano, vim, it's all good, but for the past 3 years I strongly prefer vim :P (before that I prefered nano because I couldn't find a good vim tutorial)

bsharitt 5y ago

>Nano does many things quicker and easier than vi. For example, search & replace. There may be instances where Nano does something quicker but search and replace would seem to be a perfect example of the opposite where Nano has taken a quick one line thing in vi and turned it into a multistep process for simplicity.

kijin 5y ago
Exactly. And that can be extremely useful for people who either don't want to or can't memorize the vi one-liner. Nano is different from vi because it targets a different set of users. Many of them use the terminal infrequently, so you can't assume they'll ever build up the kind of muscle memory that makes vi so efficient. You can't even assume that they'll remember any commands, so the commands are displayed prominently at the bottom. There's a reason so many Ubuntu tutorials for beginners use nano instead of vi.

chapium 5y ago

I can't be bothered by a tool I don't use.

bidirectional 5y ago

The problem is that every time vim is mentioned, there are dozens of comments about how nano is a better alternative, which is completely missing the point. Most vim users are using it all day as their main editor for various purposes, and most nano users are using it as a quick tool for small edits. They're largely incomparable.

aflag 5y ago

I'm intrigued. How do you search and replace in nano and how can it be better than `:%s/<regex>/<replacement>/gc`? I thought search and replacement was one of the killer features of vim.

bear8642 5y ago
Search replace in nano via "Where is" (^W), "Replace" (^R), "Regexp"(M-R).
edoceo 5y ago
I can't remember how but nano has the bottom two lines showing common actions and their key-commands, so the answer is on screen.
- aflag 5y ago
  Nano is definitely more friendly for the untrained user, but I thought they were saying it was better for a user that is well versed in both.
tpoacher 5y ago
In nano the equivalent command (as keystrokes) would be: '^\' (or 'M-R') to enter 'replace' mode <search term> (M-R to toggle 'regex' mode on off) <replacement> 'A' to 'replace all' (or you can replace interactively) And if you really want to shave off the extra 2 keystrokes for the 'M-R' toggle and 'A' option, you can always create a new macro in your config file that does just that.

patrec 5y ago

> I never understood the hate Nano gets from vi users. The reason I hate nano was that it's been forced upon me for in my view entirely misguided attempt to make the commandline more approachable. So that now instead of any competent unix person needing to have at least minimal skills with two arcane (but powerful) editors (vi - for editing, and emacs for shell keybindings at least), you now also need minimal skills with an essentially equally arcane but not at all powerful or, useful editor (once you have basic competence with either emacs or vi at least). Wouldn't it have been much better to have provided a friendlier vi(m) config by default, given that this was already the default editor on any unix system before nano came along and there is actually some fair amount of benefit in learning it, because it's a powerful and widely supported set of keybindings (emacs and every major IDE have good vim emulation these days)?

ravi-delia 5y ago
Who is forcing nano on you? Why do they get to tell you what text editor to use? Blink twice if someone is holding you hostage at your computer, no one deserves a life of nano use.
- 1MachineElf 5y ago
  Both the GuixSD and NixOS default system packages have nano and not vi. If you realize that you want vi, then you have to get it networked and change the configuration, all using nano, in order to install it.
- patrec 5y ago
  If you have an IT career and ever advance far enough in it, chances are pretty good that you will eventually need to log into various types of servers, vms, container images that you either have no administrative control over or where this administrative control is not best used to switch around standard editor choices to suit your personal convenience.