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At some point in antiquity, it was feasible for human adults to settle “unsettled” land. It is a boring and simple fact that this is no longer possible. TFA use

At some point in antiquity, it was feasible for human adults to settle “unsettled” land. It is a boring and simple fact that this is no longer possible. TFA used an example from the 1800s, so I stuck with that era. This is getting off topic.

cheschire 5y ago
Don’t cherry pick your favorite bits of the past. America used genocide and racial persecution to create living space. Remember when the Germans tried that using lebensraum as justification? We could have it again too if you just decide to go wipe out a less advanced race somewhere in the world and give their land to your people. It solves both your homeless problem and your need to squat on national resources at the same time. But if you want people to be able to settle on truly unsettled land, I hear Mars is opening up soon.
anovikov 5y ago
There's hell lot of virtually free land in the world today. A lot of it is very habitable and has decent climate, or has moderate issues easily solvable with today's technology (say air conditioning for hot and humid climates). It never went away. It's just that money one can make from just a piece of land is not enough anymore: these people in the XIX century went after some arable land for family farms, but it just doesn't work today: food is too cheap to make a living growing it on a small scale. Agricultural era is gone. Industrial and post-industrial society requires people to live in cities and there is no free land in cities as living in them is a competition by definition. Free land never went away. Demand for it did. Just equally, there is plenty of virtually free or very cheap homes in the U.S., many of them are in good condition (or at least, plots of land to build oneself, do get dirt cheap). It's just this happens in places with no jobs - but people in XIX century were not looking for jobs. That's also the reason why free and open-for-all immigration was banned in 1930s: that was a turning point when people stopped coming for "20 acres and a mule" (while these were still plentiful), but wanted industrial jobs, and thus homes in the cities, and these were a scarce resource.
- DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
  > Free land never went away. Demand for it did. there are places where an individual can hide and gradually go insane alone. But I don't know where today one could go and bring their whole family/tribe/clan and settle down. No matter how dry or hostile the area, the moment you're moving from surviving to thriving (which you often will if you're in a pack) the locals or the government will find ways to remove you. And it would be even worse if you don't hold a passport from that country. Humans are pack animals so the "no more demand" argument perhaps isn't too strong. When I lived in France in July/August the pigs regularly picked up Roma[1] traveling through from Spain. They usually got by washing windows at traffic lights. They drove them 20-30 km away into a forest where they set them free and let them walk home. I walked my dogs in the Parc de la Valmasque where they were frequently set lose among other places (even further away). Many times I watched it unfold in my parked car and the pigs abusing some person with a baton or simply shouting and threatening them. When the pigs were gone I offered them a drive back to Cannes or Nice. Sometimes kids with age 10 or 12 literally alone not knowing where tf they were or how they can get back (and then having to trust as stranger to offer a ride in their car to drive them back). It's not that "there simply is no demand for it". But we no longer see it when the system commits these crimes[2]. It's expected normal behavior the moment you monopolize violence by giving it to one group over another. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people [2] UK Johnson government launches anti-Gypsy/Traveller/Roma measures https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/12/28/trav-d28.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/12/28/trav-d28.html
  - anovikov 5y ago
    It has nothing to do with a price of land. Surely you must be a citizen and abide by the laws (and yes, i am certain that not having a particular place of residence must be a crime, and it is in many countries). It's about price of land. It's easy to buy cheap land, just not in places where anyone wants or can afford living in.

cheschire 5y ago

Don’t cherry pick your favorite bits of the past. America used genocide and racial persecution to create living space. Remember when the Germans tried that using lebensraum as justification? We could have it again too if you just decide to go wipe out a less advanced race somewhere in the world and give their land to your people. It solves both your homeless problem and your need to squat on national resources at the same time. But if you want people to be able to settle on truly unsettled land, I hear Mars is opening up soon.

anovikov 5y ago

There's hell lot of virtually free land in the world today. A lot of it is very habitable and has decent climate, or has moderate issues easily solvable with today's technology (say air conditioning for hot and humid climates). It never went away. It's just that money one can make from just a piece of land is not enough anymore: these people in the XIX century went after some arable land for family farms, but it just doesn't work today: food is too cheap to make a living growing it on a small scale. Agricultural era is gone. Industrial and post-industrial society requires people to live in cities and there is no free land in cities as living in them is a competition by definition. Free land never went away. Demand for it did. Just equally, there is plenty of virtually free or very cheap homes in the U.S., many of them are in good condition (or at least, plots of land to build oneself, do get dirt cheap). It's just this happens in places with no jobs - but people in XIX century were not looking for jobs. That's also the reason why free and open-for-all immigration was banned in 1930s: that was a turning point when people stopped coming for "20 acres and a mule" (while these were still plentiful), but wanted industrial jobs, and thus homes in the cities, and these were a scarce resource.

DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
> Free land never went away. Demand for it did. there are places where an individual can hide and gradually go insane alone. But I don't know where today one could go and bring their whole family/tribe/clan and settle down. No matter how dry or hostile the area, the moment you're moving from surviving to thriving (which you often will if you're in a pack) the locals or the government will find ways to remove you. And it would be even worse if you don't hold a passport from that country. Humans are pack animals so the "no more demand" argument perhaps isn't too strong. When I lived in France in July/August the pigs regularly picked up Roma[1] traveling through from Spain. They usually got by washing windows at traffic lights. They drove them 20-30 km away into a forest where they set them free and let them walk home. I walked my dogs in the Parc de la Valmasque where they were frequently set lose among other places (even further away). Many times I watched it unfold in my parked car and the pigs abusing some person with a baton or simply shouting and threatening them. When the pigs were gone I offered them a drive back to Cannes or Nice. Sometimes kids with age 10 or 12 literally alone not knowing where tf they were or how they can get back (and then having to trust as stranger to offer a ride in their car to drive them back). It's not that "there simply is no demand for it". But we no longer see it when the system commits these crimes[2]. It's expected normal behavior the moment you monopolize violence by giving it to one group over another. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people [2] UK Johnson government launches anti-Gypsy/Traveller/Roma measures https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/12/28/trav-d28.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/12/28/trav-d28.html
- anovikov 5y ago
  It has nothing to do with a price of land. Surely you must be a citizen and abide by the laws (and yes, i am certain that not having a particular place of residence must be a crime, and it is in many countries). It's about price of land. It's easy to buy cheap land, just not in places where anyone wants or can afford living in.