6 ms·

Nah, it's a "damned you do, damned if you don't"-situation. There's simply no winning this - if you don't apply preventive measures of any kind, your product w

by qayxc 6y ago

Nah, it's a "damned you do, damned if you don't"-situation. There's simply no winning this - if you don't apply preventive measures of any kind, your product will deteriorate into a homophobic, racist, sexist ultra-cringe clusterfuck in the blink of an eye [0]. All it takes is a handful of bored teenagers or middle-aged basement-dwellers to turn your product into something the vast majority of your clientele finds appalling. If you are a company you have the right to choose what you want your product to be and they simply don't want certain headlines pointing at their product. This has as much to do with "wokeness" as hardcore porn being banned from the Apple app-store, i.e. nothing. It's company policy and you can like it or not, but don't overrate this. It's nothing new in the slightest and just like publishers can decide to not put books in print that they don't want to be associated with, this company tries to eliminate content they don't want to be associated with - that's all. [0] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/microsoft-shuts-down-ai-chatbot-after-it-turned-into-racist-nazi/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/microsoft-shuts-down-ai-chatbot...

trash3 6y ago
Do both then.
the8472 6y ago
Is AI dungeon used to train newer models/update the current model? If not then there's no risk of another Tay. If they use a frozen model then one person using it to generate some NSFW content shouldn't make the output more NSFW-laden for anyone else. So I don't see how they're "damned if they don't".
- qayxc 6y ago
  > So I don't see how they're "damned if they don't". The specifics of their approach don't even matter - all it takes is one random Twitter user or media outlet to report on "immoral" output generated by someone to damage the brand image. That's what they want to avoid and that's why they are trying to take preventive measures.
  - contravariant 6y ago
    If they think that blocking certain words is going to prevent that from happening then well, good luck with that.
    - jerf 6y ago
      It does prevent the news article from saying "And they knew about it and they did nothing!" I'd be very worried about this in their shoes and acting very similarly.
      - ThalesX 6y ago
        But then don't you have to answer to all the media queries? "They knew about this problem, they even attempted to half ass fix it, but it's obviously their mind is on the subscriber money, and not preventing blatant CHILD EXPLOITATION!" Then you throw some more money at a yet unsolvable task, and then in 2 years, when some other outlet gets triggered, you have to defend yourself once again. "They've know about this problem for 5 years and it's still rampant in their community! Shame on you JERF INC.!"
        jerf 6y ago
        You're not entirely wrong, but if you make the story unattractive enough, the media will go do a hatchet job on someone else. They've only got so much time and they've got a lot of outrage to drum up^W^W^W^Wengagement metrics to drive, so you jst put enough in to try to make them hit somebody else instead.
  - wernercd 6y ago
    People make penis shaped blocks in Minecraft all day long... and that doesn't tarnish the Minecraft brand. Why? because people understand that it's not Minecraft the company doing so - or condoning the practice. And that's just scratching the surface of what can be done in games like that which allow "creative expression". Why would you think that this company needs to Thought Police their gamers when thousands of others are able to host creativity based games without being dystopian?
- ainiriand 6y ago
  Correct. And they can go one step further, they could just use the input they currently do not flag if they want to feed back into the model. This is not a technical consideration, it is just PC at its worst.
  - qayxc 6y ago
    Oh come on. This kind of thing is done everywhere in media. You either deny that games are a medium or you're under the impression that whatever you read in news publications, books, see in films and TV is the result of the unfiltered creative outlet of the producers. News flash: it isn't. There's heavy editing going on everywhere and just because it targets a specific computer model in this case instead of a more "traditional" product like a novel, film or stage play doesn't make an iota of difference. In fact this demonstrates the maturity of the technology and its use if it gets the same treatment as every other public media.
winkeltripel 6y ago
Perhaps you don't see how once a product contains a censorship feature, it begs to be expanded. Each step appears reasonable, but at the far side, the censor is very restrictive.
- gameswithgo 6y ago
  Take the products in the category of forums. Most of them do censorship, THIS forum does censorship. A few do not, like Parler. If you like, take a tour of the forum products that do not do any censorship, spend some time there, report back on what it is like. Which forum products do you enjoy and which do you not?
selfhoster11 6y ago
If OpenAI was truly open as their name says, there would be no dilemma. The technology would be democratised and anyone would be able to run their own instance with their own censorship. Centralised systems is the only reason why you get these problems.
DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
> All it takes is a handful of bored teenagers or middle-aged basement-dwellers to turn your product into something the vast majority of your clientele finds appalling. the Internet's original sin! the irony is that Tech amplifies it but Tech won't (IMHO) be able to fix it with a technological solution (it's not a technical problem).
sixothree 6y ago
You act as if the two are mutually exclusive. I don't think the points in the comment you replied to are negated by anything you argued.
ergot_vacation 6y ago
Tumblr was destroyed precisely because of Apples puritanical views toward sexual expression (along with Tumblr's extreme laziness in moderating ACTUAL child porn). Discord may well be as well. "Private companies have the right" always fails to account for the fact that these "private companies" are monopolies, with immense control over wide swaths of people's digital lives. No company can compete with them. No alternative to them can be created, because they will immediately be squashed, or fall into obscurity. Participation in these services is "optional," but more and more only in the way that having electricity or running water is "optional." As a result, these "private companies" effectively become governments, ruling over digital countries you are forced to live in, and affording you little to no rights. And yet, they do this in an ACTUAL country, which DOES afford its citizens rights. Thus a conflict exists. Ordinary "Private Companies" can censor whatever they like. Monopolies cannot, because doing so threatens free society.

by qayxc 6y ago

trash3 6y ago

Do both then.

the8472 6y ago

Is AI dungeon used to train newer models/update the current model? If not then there's no risk of another Tay. If they use a frozen model then one person using it to generate some NSFW content shouldn't make the output more NSFW-laden for anyone else. So I don't see how they're "damned if they don't".

qayxc 6y ago
> So I don't see how they're "damned if they don't". The specifics of their approach don't even matter - all it takes is one random Twitter user or media outlet to report on "immoral" output generated by someone to damage the brand image. That's what they want to avoid and that's why they are trying to take preventive measures.
- contravariant 6y ago
  If they think that blocking certain words is going to prevent that from happening then well, good luck with that.
  - jerf 6y ago
    It does prevent the news article from saying "And they knew about it and they did nothing!" I'd be very worried about this in their shoes and acting very similarly.
    - ThalesX 6y ago
      But then don't you have to answer to all the media queries? "They knew about this problem, they even attempted to half ass fix it, but it's obviously their mind is on the subscriber money, and not preventing blatant CHILD EXPLOITATION!" Then you throw some more money at a yet unsolvable task, and then in 2 years, when some other outlet gets triggered, you have to defend yourself once again. "They've know about this problem for 5 years and it's still rampant in their community! Shame on you JERF INC.!"
      - jerf 6y ago
        You're not entirely wrong, but if you make the story unattractive enough, the media will go do a hatchet job on someone else. They've only got so much time and they've got a lot of outrage to drum up^W^W^W^Wengagement metrics to drive, so you jst put enough in to try to make them hit somebody else instead.
- wernercd 6y ago
  People make penis shaped blocks in Minecraft all day long... and that doesn't tarnish the Minecraft brand. Why? because people understand that it's not Minecraft the company doing so - or condoning the practice. And that's just scratching the surface of what can be done in games like that which allow "creative expression". Why would you think that this company needs to Thought Police their gamers when thousands of others are able to host creativity based games without being dystopian?
ainiriand 6y ago
Correct. And they can go one step further, they could just use the input they currently do not flag if they want to feed back into the model. This is not a technical consideration, it is just PC at its worst.
- qayxc 6y ago
  Oh come on. This kind of thing is done everywhere in media. You either deny that games are a medium or you're under the impression that whatever you read in news publications, books, see in films and TV is the result of the unfiltered creative outlet of the producers. News flash: it isn't. There's heavy editing going on everywhere and just because it targets a specific computer model in this case instead of a more "traditional" product like a novel, film or stage play doesn't make an iota of difference. In fact this demonstrates the maturity of the technology and its use if it gets the same treatment as every other public media.

winkeltripel 6y ago

Perhaps you don't see how once a product contains a censorship feature, it begs to be expanded. Each step appears reasonable, but at the far side, the censor is very restrictive.

gameswithgo 6y ago
Take the products in the category of forums. Most of them do censorship, THIS forum does censorship. A few do not, like Parler. If you like, take a tour of the forum products that do not do any censorship, spend some time there, report back on what it is like. Which forum products do you enjoy and which do you not?

selfhoster11 6y ago

If OpenAI was truly open as their name says, there would be no dilemma. The technology would be democratised and anyone would be able to run their own instance with their own censorship. Centralised systems is the only reason why you get these problems.

DyslexicAtheist 6y ago

> All it takes is a handful of bored teenagers or middle-aged basement-dwellers to turn your product into something the vast majority of your clientele finds appalling. the Internet's original sin! the irony is that Tech amplifies it but Tech won't (IMHO) be able to fix it with a technological solution (it's not a technical problem).

sixothree 6y ago

You act as if the two are mutually exclusive. I don't think the points in the comment you replied to are negated by anything you argued.

ergot_vacation 6y ago

Tumblr was destroyed precisely because of Apples puritanical views toward sexual expression (along with Tumblr's extreme laziness in moderating ACTUAL child porn). Discord may well be as well. "Private companies have the right" always fails to account for the fact that these "private companies" are monopolies, with immense control over wide swaths of people's digital lives. No company can compete with them. No alternative to them can be created, because they will immediately be squashed, or fall into obscurity. Participation in these services is "optional," but more and more only in the way that having electricity or running water is "optional." As a result, these "private companies" effectively become governments, ruling over digital countries you are forced to live in, and affording you little to no rights. And yet, they do this in an ACTUAL country, which DOES afford its citizens rights. Thus a conflict exists. Ordinary "Private Companies" can censor whatever they like. Monopolies cannot, because doing so threatens free society.