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While it is obviously unethical, is advertising alcohol, vaping and gambling to 13-17 year olds illegal in Australia? Asking because I am not sure if Facebook

While it is obviously unethical, is advertising alcohol, vaping and gambling to 13-17 year olds illegal in Australia? Asking because I am not sure if Facebook should be making the shots here on what is legal or illegal to advertise. This is best handled through government.

tdonovic 5y ago
Yes. It is absolutely illegal. Not sure anywhere where this would be legal. Ie. "TV or radio ads about alcohol cannot target children. They also should not be irresponsible in targeting adults." https://www.acma.gov.au/ads-alcohol-tobacco-or-therapeutic-goods https://www.acma.gov.au/ads-alcohol-tobacco-or-therapeutic-g... Edit: changed the example
- nemo44x 5y ago
  What does that have to do with this? I do agree though and would go further and make it illegal to show ads to anyone whose profile states they are under 18.
  - tdonovic 5y ago
    You can't, as in any developed nation I can think of, advertise alcohol to children. Take a look at the actions the industry has taken when they even put alcohol ads too close to children, or too appealing to children, ctrl-f for moon dog. https://www.abac.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/ABAC-Quarterly-Media-Update-31-March-2018.pdf https://www.abac.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/ABAC-Quar... You cannot advertise alcohol to children in Australia
nemo44x 5y ago
Agreed. Instead of expecting a for-profit company to decide what’s ok we should simply pass laws that makes advertising to people under 18 illegal. For instance if your social media account says you are less than 18 then it should be illegal to show any ad to you. This will have the additional benefit of internet communication technology companies having to rethink kids as a profit center.
- cj 5y ago
  Banning advertising to kids under 18 is a pretty interesting idea. You obviously can't completely ban it, since kids under 18 would still have access to cable TV, and therefore advertisments. But I could see a system where -targeting- kids under 18 would be banned, whereas advertising as a whole is not illegal for < 18 so long as the advertisements kids are seeing aren't specifically targeted only at minors.
Erik816 5y ago
That is not how ethics and laws interact. The law sets a minimum standard that can be enforced by the government with a penalty. No matter what Facebook does, they are not deciding what is or is not legal. Ethically, you often have an obligation to do more than the bare legal minimum in order to not be a horrible person.
scomp 5y ago
When watching TV during a football (Aussie rules football not soccer) game I see probably 15-20 gambling ads and so would the 0-17 year olds watching. There is also an ad with Matthew McConaughey drinking whiskey, although im not sure if that's during prime time or late hours. Never seen a smoking or vaping ad though.
- behringer 5y ago
  Yes but they can't run alongside children's programming or feature themes that are intended for children. Eg, they can't target 13 to 17 year olds even if it's during sports
- tw04 5y ago
  >When watching TV during a football (Aussie rules football not soccer) game I see probably 15-20 gambling ads and so would the 0-17 year olds watching. There's a huge difference between targeting an age group and the age group being exposed by association. If you saw ads on the Sunday morning cartoons for whiskey and gambling, you could rightly say they are targeting children. Ads put on during a football game that targets 25-50 year olds that may happen to have younger viewers != targeting those younger viewers. Facebook is targeting 13-17 year olds.
  - scomp 5y ago
    Never said there wasn't...
shakna 5y ago
That's... A complicated question. It does appear to be a breach of ABAC Responsible Alcohol Marketing Code (3b) [0], but the ABAC would only review it if a complaint was raised. A complaint first has to be raised with Ad Standards, who undertake ethical review on a case-by-case basis. That is, it is generally illegal to market to those who are underage, but it is not generally illegal to display such advertising in a space where those who are outside of the target audience. The usual legal process is to review individual ads, and those creating the adverts are the ones who end up in trouble. An entire marketplace (like Facebook) deciding that marketing to minors is okay is untested waters, because each individual advert would normally be ruled illegal so why the hell would the market allow it? [0] https://www.abac.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/ABAC-Responsible-Alcohol-Marketing-Code-26-February-2021.pdf https://www.abac.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/ABAC-Resp...
fy20 5y ago
In my country (not AU) they banned alcohol advertising completely a couple of years ago, because alcoholism is a big problem here. So instead of advertising alcohol, the breweries now advertise their alcohol free drinks. They just changed "Carlsberg" to "Carlsberg Alcohol Free" on the same ads, and boom it's allowed.
- SirSourdough 5y ago
  Reminds me of cigarette advertising in Formula 1, where brands like Phillip Morris have constantly tried to find new ways to sneak imagery and color schemes onto the cars that are reminiscent of their branding despite cigarette ads being banned in the early 2000s. There have been cars the looked exactly like a Marlboro pack (red car, white chevron rear wing), sponsored by Marlboro, but without the actual word Marlboro that have been allowed to race. They even created a new entity (Mission Winnow) in 2018 which is purportedly an initiative “to create engagement around the role of science, technology and innovation as a powerful force for good in any industry”, whatever that means. Conveniently, MW has the same color scheme and a suspiciously similar "M" logo to Marlboro, and surprise, they've been a title sponsor of the Ferrari cars since, though they didn't use the branding in 2020 after countries started investigating whether they were flaunting the ad ban.

tdonovic 5y ago

Yes. It is absolutely illegal. Not sure anywhere where this would be legal. Ie. "TV or radio ads about alcohol cannot target children. They also should not be irresponsible in targeting adults." https://www.acma.gov.au/ads-alcohol-tobacco-or-therapeutic-goods https://www.acma.gov.au/ads-alcohol-tobacco-or-therapeutic-g... Edit: changed the example

nemo44x 5y ago
What does that have to do with this? I do agree though and would go further and make it illegal to show ads to anyone whose profile states they are under 18.
- tdonovic 5y ago
  You can't, as in any developed nation I can think of, advertise alcohol to children. Take a look at the actions the industry has taken when they even put alcohol ads too close to children, or too appealing to children, ctrl-f for moon dog. https://www.abac.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/ABAC-Quarterly-Media-Update-31-March-2018.pdf https://www.abac.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/ABAC-Quar... You cannot advertise alcohol to children in Australia

nemo44x 5y ago

Agreed. Instead of expecting a for-profit company to decide what’s ok we should simply pass laws that makes advertising to people under 18 illegal. For instance if your social media account says you are less than 18 then it should be illegal to show any ad to you. This will have the additional benefit of internet communication technology companies having to rethink kids as a profit center.

cj 5y ago
Banning advertising to kids under 18 is a pretty interesting idea. You obviously can't completely ban it, since kids under 18 would still have access to cable TV, and therefore advertisments. But I could see a system where -targeting- kids under 18 would be banned, whereas advertising as a whole is not illegal for < 18 so long as the advertisements kids are seeing aren't specifically targeted only at minors.

Erik816 5y ago

That is not how ethics and laws interact. The law sets a minimum standard that can be enforced by the government with a penalty. No matter what Facebook does, they are not deciding what is or is not legal. Ethically, you often have an obligation to do more than the bare legal minimum in order to not be a horrible person.

scomp 5y ago

When watching TV during a football (Aussie rules football not soccer) game I see probably 15-20 gambling ads and so would the 0-17 year olds watching. There is also an ad with Matthew McConaughey drinking whiskey, although im not sure if that's during prime time or late hours. Never seen a smoking or vaping ad though.

behringer 5y ago
Yes but they can't run alongside children's programming or feature themes that are intended for children. Eg, they can't target 13 to 17 year olds even if it's during sports
tw04 5y ago
>When watching TV during a football (Aussie rules football not soccer) game I see probably 15-20 gambling ads and so would the 0-17 year olds watching. There's a huge difference between targeting an age group and the age group being exposed by association. If you saw ads on the Sunday morning cartoons for whiskey and gambling, you could rightly say they are targeting children. Ads put on during a football game that targets 25-50 year olds that may happen to have younger viewers != targeting those younger viewers. Facebook is targeting 13-17 year olds.
- scomp 5y ago
  Never said there wasn't...

shakna 5y ago

That's... A complicated question. It does appear to be a breach of ABAC Responsible Alcohol Marketing Code (3b) [0], but the ABAC would only review it if a complaint was raised. A complaint first has to be raised with Ad Standards, who undertake ethical review on a case-by-case basis. That is, it is generally illegal to market to those who are underage, but it is not generally illegal to display such advertising in a space where those who are outside of the target audience. The usual legal process is to review individual ads, and those creating the adverts are the ones who end up in trouble. An entire marketplace (like Facebook) deciding that marketing to minors is okay is untested waters, because each individual advert would normally be ruled illegal so why the hell would the market allow it? [0] https://www.abac.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/ABAC-Responsible-Alcohol-Marketing-Code-26-February-2021.pdf https://www.abac.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/ABAC-Resp...

fy20 5y ago

In my country (not AU) they banned alcohol advertising completely a couple of years ago, because alcoholism is a big problem here. So instead of advertising alcohol, the breweries now advertise their alcohol free drinks. They just changed "Carlsberg" to "Carlsberg Alcohol Free" on the same ads, and boom it's allowed.

SirSourdough 5y ago
Reminds me of cigarette advertising in Formula 1, where brands like Phillip Morris have constantly tried to find new ways to sneak imagery and color schemes onto the cars that are reminiscent of their branding despite cigarette ads being banned in the early 2000s. There have been cars the looked exactly like a Marlboro pack (red car, white chevron rear wing), sponsored by Marlboro, but without the actual word Marlboro that have been allowed to race. They even created a new entity (Mission Winnow) in 2018 which is purportedly an initiative “to create engagement around the role of science, technology and innovation as a powerful force for good in any industry”, whatever that means. Conveniently, MW has the same color scheme and a suspiciously similar "M" logo to Marlboro, and surprise, they've been a title sponsor of the Ferrari cars since, though they didn't use the branding in 2020 after countries started investigating whether they were flaunting the ad ban.