4 ms·

I choose to spend my money on devices from a company that's explicitly and repeatedly stated that their mission is privacy. But if you choose to buy phones fro

by hugi 5y ago

I choose to spend my money on devices from a company that's explicitly and repeatedly stated that their mission is privacy. But if you choose to buy phones from ad companies, it's your decision.

harry8 5y ago
They'll flip the nanosecond it suits them. Their commitment isn't valuable or enforceable or anything other than a dodgy sales pitch. Really. They can encode it in contact in a second and choose not to.
- hu3 5y ago
  > They'll flip the nanosecond it suits them. Like when Apple dropped end-to-end encryption on iCloud because FBI asked them politely. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusive-idUSKBN1ZK1CT https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusiv...
  - meepmorp 5y ago
    https://blog.elcomsoft.com/2021/01/apple-fbi-and-iphone-backup-encryption-everything-you-wanted-to-know/ https://blog.elcomsoft.com/2021/01/apple-fbi-and-iphone-back...
    - hu3 5y ago
      "The encryption keys are stored at Apple’ own servers" Thanks for confirming that there's no privacy in iCloud.
      - meepmorp 5y ago
        You should actually read the article, perhaps after first setting down the axe you're grinding. The details are interesting, and they discuss the Reuters piece you linked to.
        hu3 5y ago
        I did read the article. It nitpicks on Reuters article but the point still stands. Apple has the keys to iCloud backups. There's no axe to grind because the lack of end-to-end encryption is a fact. Your own link states that. Nitpicking Reuters won't change that. I don't understand this mentality of religiously defending something that's clearly wrong. It will only make the platform you use worse. By the way you should read HN guidelines. Don't comment whether someone read an article. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- hugi 5y ago
  Sure, they can flip. But currently Apple's business model is based on privacy, and they're going for it HARD. Like, really hard. And I like that. The moment they stop doing that, I won't support them. Meanwhile; have you you seen Google stand up to the despicable behaviour of Facebook? No? I wonder why.
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    Privacy like tracking your app launches? https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-says-itll-change-how-it-collects-data-on-the-macos-apps-you-launch/ https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-says-itll-change-how-it-coll...
    - hugi 5y ago
      Did you even read the article you linked?
      - commoner 5y ago
        > Now, Apple says it has stopped logging user IP addresses collected by the feature, and will delete previous logs of IP addresses. Without IP addresses, there's far less danger that records of app usage could be tied back to users. https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-says-itll-change-how-it-collects-data-on-the-macos-apps-you-launch/ https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-says-itll-change-how-it-coll... Apple is still tracking app launches in macOS, even though it has said that it will stop logging IP addresses along with that usage data.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - simion314 5y ago
        Yes fanboys, Apple cares so much about privacy that they sent your app launches unencrypted and with the IP address to their servers, they are only "fixing" it because of bad PR. If you use your brain you can conclude that Apple does not care about privacy enough to hire competent developers, this feature design was clearly insecure and against privacy that my any person with a bit of brain and not emotional invested can see it clear, "privacy is only PR, when it comes to actual implementation is irrelevant" ... though I think you could convince me that there is a chance that we could explain this just with pure stupidity, somehow Apple has such a broken process that stupidity triumphs over sane architecture, then yeah I hope you love the fact you use a product from someone that loves privacy but is to stuipid to offer it to you.
- imoverclocked 5y ago
  There is a promise in the marketing that customers expect to be kept. Apple has done lots of research and work to create privacy preserving versions of services that competitors simply harvest lots of user data for. Apple has invested heavily in this vein.
  - harry8 5y ago
    It's the work of moments to put it in a contract that data sourced from you cannot be sold or provided to a third party without the law requiring it. They choose not to do this. Apple have invested heavily in their /marketing/ If you believe they won't flip on you the nanosecond it suits them I've got a bridge over here that might interest you... Besides even if you believe the current people controlling Apple, all of them, you can't possibly know who will control it next year let alone in 5 or 10 years. This "I want to believe" garbage is just ridiculous. Seriously. You expect anything you like and Apple won't care a damn if your expectations are trashed for their profit or something else. If they won't put it in a contract it only because they reserve the right to to flip you off. Hard and rough. No other reason.
alfongj 5y ago
Please point to a single source from Apple claiming their mission is privacy.
- hugi 5y ago
  For me their actions speak volumes. But if you want sources, here's Craig Federighi, Senior VP of software, literally yesterday: "It [privacy] is a value that is so deep in us. Personal information can be used and abused and even weaponized in ways that can be really, really destructive. Often in a way that's not at all apparent to the person who might be giving up that information." and "These devices are so intimately a part of our lives and contain so much of what we're thinking and where we've been and who we've been with that users deserve and need control of that information. Abuse ranges from creepy to dangerous". He says more about privacy in that same interview, recommended listen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G05nEgsXgoI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G05nEgsXgoI
  - anoncake 5y ago
    Reminds me of the "We value your privacy" pop-ups Google keeps popping up. A for-profit company will say anything that it believes is profitable. PR statements like the one you quoted convey no information.
m4rtink 5y ago
Unless the device runs open source software under your full control you can't trust any company behind it.
stale2002 5y ago
Well you will continue to be allowed to make these decisions if you want, but after these lawsuits go through, other people will also be free to use other app store as well. Problem solved. You get to keep using apple app stores, and other people can choose something else.
marticode 5y ago
You don't really buy an Apple phone. You give them money and then they decide what software can, will or will not run on the device they hand you down. Apple owns your phone.

by hugi 5y ago

I choose to spend my money on devices from a company that's explicitly and repeatedly stated that their mission is privacy. But if you choose to buy phones from ad companies, it's your decision.

harry8 5y ago

They'll flip the nanosecond it suits them. Their commitment isn't valuable or enforceable or anything other than a dodgy sales pitch. Really. They can encode it in contact in a second and choose not to.

hu3 5y ago
> They'll flip the nanosecond it suits them. Like when Apple dropped end-to-end encryption on iCloud because FBI asked them politely. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusive-idUSKBN1ZK1CT https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusiv...
- meepmorp 5y ago
  https://blog.elcomsoft.com/2021/01/apple-fbi-and-iphone-backup-encryption-everything-you-wanted-to-know/ https://blog.elcomsoft.com/2021/01/apple-fbi-and-iphone-back...
  - hu3 5y ago
    "The encryption keys are stored at Apple’ own servers" Thanks for confirming that there's no privacy in iCloud.
    - meepmorp 5y ago
      You should actually read the article, perhaps after first setting down the axe you're grinding. The details are interesting, and they discuss the Reuters piece you linked to.
      - hu3 5y ago
        I did read the article. It nitpicks on Reuters article but the point still stands. Apple has the keys to iCloud backups. There's no axe to grind because the lack of end-to-end encryption is a fact. Your own link states that. Nitpicking Reuters won't change that. I don't understand this mentality of religiously defending something that's clearly wrong. It will only make the platform you use worse. By the way you should read HN guidelines. Don't comment whether someone read an article. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
hugi 5y ago
Sure, they can flip. But currently Apple's business model is based on privacy, and they're going for it HARD. Like, really hard. And I like that. The moment they stop doing that, I won't support them. Meanwhile; have you you seen Google stand up to the despicable behaviour of Facebook? No? I wonder why.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  Privacy like tracking your app launches? https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-says-itll-change-how-it-collects-data-on-the-macos-apps-you-launch/ https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-says-itll-change-how-it-coll...
  - hugi 5y ago
    Did you even read the article you linked?
    - commoner 5y ago
      > Now, Apple says it has stopped logging user IP addresses collected by the feature, and will delete previous logs of IP addresses. Without IP addresses, there's far less danger that records of app usage could be tied back to users. https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-says-itll-change-how-it-collects-data-on-the-macos-apps-you-launch/ https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-says-itll-change-how-it-coll... Apple is still tracking app launches in macOS, even though it has said that it will stop logging IP addresses along with that usage data.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - simion314 5y ago
      Yes fanboys, Apple cares so much about privacy that they sent your app launches unencrypted and with the IP address to their servers, they are only "fixing" it because of bad PR. If you use your brain you can conclude that Apple does not care about privacy enough to hire competent developers, this feature design was clearly insecure and against privacy that my any person with a bit of brain and not emotional invested can see it clear, "privacy is only PR, when it comes to actual implementation is irrelevant" ... though I think you could convince me that there is a chance that we could explain this just with pure stupidity, somehow Apple has such a broken process that stupidity triumphs over sane architecture, then yeah I hope you love the fact you use a product from someone that loves privacy but is to stuipid to offer it to you.
imoverclocked 5y ago
There is a promise in the marketing that customers expect to be kept. Apple has done lots of research and work to create privacy preserving versions of services that competitors simply harvest lots of user data for. Apple has invested heavily in this vein.
- harry8 5y ago
  It's the work of moments to put it in a contract that data sourced from you cannot be sold or provided to a third party without the law requiring it. They choose not to do this. Apple have invested heavily in their /marketing/ If you believe they won't flip on you the nanosecond it suits them I've got a bridge over here that might interest you... Besides even if you believe the current people controlling Apple, all of them, you can't possibly know who will control it next year let alone in 5 or 10 years. This "I want to believe" garbage is just ridiculous. Seriously. You expect anything you like and Apple won't care a damn if your expectations are trashed for their profit or something else. If they won't put it in a contract it only because they reserve the right to to flip you off. Hard and rough. No other reason.

alfongj 5y ago

Please point to a single source from Apple claiming their mission is privacy.

hugi 5y ago
For me their actions speak volumes. But if you want sources, here's Craig Federighi, Senior VP of software, literally yesterday: "It [privacy] is a value that is so deep in us. Personal information can be used and abused and even weaponized in ways that can be really, really destructive. Often in a way that's not at all apparent to the person who might be giving up that information." and "These devices are so intimately a part of our lives and contain so much of what we're thinking and where we've been and who we've been with that users deserve and need control of that information. Abuse ranges from creepy to dangerous". He says more about privacy in that same interview, recommended listen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G05nEgsXgoI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G05nEgsXgoI
- anoncake 5y ago
  Reminds me of the "We value your privacy" pop-ups Google keeps popping up. A for-profit company will say anything that it believes is profitable. PR statements like the one you quoted convey no information.

m4rtink 5y ago

Unless the device runs open source software under your full control you can't trust any company behind it.

stale2002 5y ago

Well you will continue to be allowed to make these decisions if you want, but after these lawsuits go through, other people will also be free to use other app store as well. Problem solved. You get to keep using apple app stores, and other people can choose something else.

marticode 5y ago

You don't really buy an Apple phone. You give them money and then they decide what software can, will or will not run on the device they hand you down. Apple owns your phone.