4 ms·

The "share an AirBnB to be able to afford the conference" part seems particularly damning to me. That seems entirely premeditated and predatory.

hamburglar 6y ago
In particular, if true, the part where he first encouraged her to invite other people and then when she expressed interest in that, accused her of trying to bring a “chaperone” sounds very much like premeditation. The initial invitation was designed to make her think it wasn’t just the two of them, but then he shamed her into acquiescing to that exact situation.
mirekrusin 6y ago
"seems" doesn't mean "is", we have law systems to deal with those kind of issues. Judges are for determining where the line between "shitty partner" vs "rapist" lies.
- PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
  The author doesn't appear to want to make the claim that Mr. Pretty raped her. She suggests, strongly, that he's a shitty person. She wants other people to know this. Courts don't adjudicate such matters, unless they have further consequences.
  - GavinMcG 6y ago
    "Insist[ing] on having intercourse regardless of me saying I didn’t want to" is rape.
    - baobabKoodaa 6y ago
      "Insisting" on sex does not mean sex happened. If you're a shitty person and ask another person "come on have sex with me", and the other person says "no", and then you don't have sex, are you now a rapist?
      - GavinMcG 6y ago
        That's not insisting, that's asking, or suggesting. The construction used by the author indicates that it happened. That's how the term is used.
        baobabKoodaa 6y ago
        > The construction used by the author indicates that it happened. That's how the term is used. Do you actually believe that or are you just making stuff up? If the author had actually been raped-while-screaming-no-stop, I'm pretty sure they would have explicitly said so. This article is extremely well articulated and thought out, I'm pretty sure that would be explicitly in the article if it happened. To me the "insisted" line in the article sounds like there was an event where the man was being an asshole and trying to have sex, and the woman said no, and they didn't have sex at that time (or the woman changed their mind, said yes, and then they did have sex).
    - PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
      I very carefully chose the phrasing of: >The author doesn't appear to want to make the claim that Mr. Pretty raped her That is quite different from the question of whether what happened was rape. (EDIT: To make it clear, if it did happen as the author writes, then I totally agree that it was rape. This is completely distinct from the question of the author's intent to make the claim that she was raped. The word does not occur in her piece.)
- fabian2k 6y ago
  I'm not a court, I'm a random person on the internet commenting here.
  - mirekrusin 6y ago
    Me too.
the-dude 6y ago
To me it sounds generous and possibly completely harmless.
- fabian2k 6y ago
  My experience with conferences is in a different field, but a senior participant proposing to share an AirBnB with a junior participant like a student would be extremely weird. If you want to support the student, you either organize another student for them to share accomodations, or connect them to one of the travel grants for that conference.
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  It creates a power imbalance, or increases the power imbalance that already existed between the two. If you have a boss/employee relationship, or a mentor/mentee relationship, or a professor/student relationship, you need to tread extra carefully around consent. One party in those relationships holds incredible power over the other, and can coerce the weaker party into things they may not be comfortable doing. Likewise, enabling someone to attend a conference they would not otherwise be able to financially afford creates a possibility of coercion . It's not always coercive, but it needs to be handled delicately and appropriately. In the author's situation, if she refused, there was a chance she was thrown out onto the streets of Berlin at who knows what hour, with no money/luggage, and maybe no ability to speak the local language.
  - noobermin 6y ago
    I don't agree. The crime here seems to be rape and the use of power to extract sex from another. That's the problem. I don't see how sharing an AirBnB is by itself a problem. In light of everything else, it fits a pattern of manipulation, but it by itself isn't harmful.
    - Pfhreak 6y ago
      She would not otherwise have been able to attend. She is able to attend specifically because of his "generosity". This wasn't something she proposed, and when she tried to bring others into the arrangement he pushed back, insisting it was just the two of them. So yeah, sharing an AirBNB isn't necessarily bad, but in this case specifically it appears to be predatory.

hamburglar 6y ago

In particular, if true, the part where he first encouraged her to invite other people and then when she expressed interest in that, accused her of trying to bring a “chaperone” sounds very much like premeditation. The initial invitation was designed to make her think it wasn’t just the two of them, but then he shamed her into acquiescing to that exact situation.

mirekrusin 6y ago

"seems" doesn't mean "is", we have law systems to deal with those kind of issues. Judges are for determining where the line between "shitty partner" vs "rapist" lies.

PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
The author doesn't appear to want to make the claim that Mr. Pretty raped her. She suggests, strongly, that he's a shitty person. She wants other people to know this. Courts don't adjudicate such matters, unless they have further consequences.
- GavinMcG 6y ago
  "Insist[ing] on having intercourse regardless of me saying I didn’t want to" is rape.
  - baobabKoodaa 6y ago
    "Insisting" on sex does not mean sex happened. If you're a shitty person and ask another person "come on have sex with me", and the other person says "no", and then you don't have sex, are you now a rapist?
    - GavinMcG 6y ago
      That's not insisting, that's asking, or suggesting. The construction used by the author indicates that it happened. That's how the term is used.
      - baobabKoodaa 6y ago
        > The construction used by the author indicates that it happened. That's how the term is used. Do you actually believe that or are you just making stuff up? If the author had actually been raped-while-screaming-no-stop, I'm pretty sure they would have explicitly said so. This article is extremely well articulated and thought out, I'm pretty sure that would be explicitly in the article if it happened. To me the "insisted" line in the article sounds like there was an event where the man was being an asshole and trying to have sex, and the woman said no, and they didn't have sex at that time (or the woman changed their mind, said yes, and then they did have sex).
  - PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
    I very carefully chose the phrasing of: >The author doesn't appear to want to make the claim that Mr. Pretty raped her That is quite different from the question of whether what happened was rape. (EDIT: To make it clear, if it did happen as the author writes, then I totally agree that it was rape. This is completely distinct from the question of the author's intent to make the claim that she was raped. The word does not occur in her piece.)
fabian2k 6y ago
I'm not a court, I'm a random person on the internet commenting here.
- mirekrusin 6y ago
  Me too.

the-dude 6y ago

To me it sounds generous and possibly completely harmless.

fabian2k 6y ago
My experience with conferences is in a different field, but a senior participant proposing to share an AirBnB with a junior participant like a student would be extremely weird. If you want to support the student, you either organize another student for them to share accomodations, or connect them to one of the travel grants for that conference.
Pfhreak 6y ago
It creates a power imbalance, or increases the power imbalance that already existed between the two. If you have a boss/employee relationship, or a mentor/mentee relationship, or a professor/student relationship, you need to tread extra carefully around consent. One party in those relationships holds incredible power over the other, and can coerce the weaker party into things they may not be comfortable doing. Likewise, enabling someone to attend a conference they would not otherwise be able to financially afford creates a possibility of coercion . It's not always coercive, but it needs to be handled delicately and appropriately. In the author's situation, if she refused, there was a chance she was thrown out onto the streets of Berlin at who knows what hour, with no money/luggage, and maybe no ability to speak the local language.
- noobermin 6y ago
  I don't agree. The crime here seems to be rape and the use of power to extract sex from another. That's the problem. I don't see how sharing an AirBnB is by itself a problem. In light of everything else, it fits a pattern of manipulation, but it by itself isn't harmful.
  - Pfhreak 6y ago
    She would not otherwise have been able to attend. She is able to attend specifically because of his "generosity". This wasn't something she proposed, and when she tried to bring others into the arrangement he pushed back, insisting it was just the two of them. So yeah, sharing an AirBNB isn't necessarily bad, but in this case specifically it appears to be predatory.