4 ms·

It's pretty rare that I root for a company to crash and burn on principle. I'm an entrepreneur myself so it takes a lot for me to go there. I hope every single

by api 6y ago

It's pretty rare that I root for a company to crash and burn on principle. I'm an entrepreneur myself so it takes a lot for me to go there. I hope every single one of these cloud-streamed remote-app or remote-OS plays fails and fails hard. They're helping lead the Internet and the computing ecosystem in an even more dystopian direction. I've been happy to see Stadia not really take off. So lets say this succeeds. Then Google or Facebook buys it. Now all your browser sessions including passwords, keys, authentication codes, private messages, etc. are globally visible to be data mined. Who's to say they're not doing this already? What if this is hacked? This is worse than that Amazon idea of giving Amazon delivery people keys to your house. In the physical world it's pretty easy to see people when they come in your front door. In the digital world you have no idea what these people are doing with your data. There is zero situational awareness.

stephc_int13 6y ago
I am in the same club :) I don't usually care about companies success or failure, this none of my business, after all, but this kind of "innovation" could have extremely unpleasant side effects. I hope they crash quick.
andiareso 6y ago
I think you kinda hit it on the nose. Who knows where or how or who has access to these machines. IDC if it's encrypted in transit or what, but there is no way a corporation with strict data privacy rules would be able to stream potentially sensitive information across the wire especially when it will be stored in the cloud in web form for a period of time. IDK good luck, but I'm definitely tin-foil hatting with this guy above me.
- api 6y ago
  For me it's not so much a trust issue with this company, though for cloud and mobile stuff I have come to a "guilty until proven innocent" rule as regards privacy. It's (1) the trend this supports, and (2) what happens if worse players get access to it either through hacking or acquisition.
  - andiareso 6y ago
    I guess I'm more thinking if the target is enterprise (because it's 30$ a month), what enterprise is going to green light workers using a browser where content doesn't reside on the user's machine? I've worked several tech jobs where it's mandated to use a specific browser because it's locked-down to not leak sensitive information. Not to mention it allows users to access internal resources. IDK I'm not necessarily hating the product, just don't know how it's going to work at scale for the listed CPU/Memory/Price point
rakoo 6y ago
While I totally agree with you, if this succeeds my hope is that it will finally push browser vendors to come up with a good authentication/authorization story. Make it totally integrated in the browser, such that I remain in control and Mighty only sees the equivalent of OAuth token it can't use to login in my name. No more custom signup forms, no more botched login flows redirecting you through 13 sites, no more passwords stored on websites... That is an innovation I would gladly welcome both as a web user and a potential web developer. Every service needs auth. I can't believe nothing is properly integrated. I still have to click and enter a password, which fortunately the browser can create for me. I still have to receive an email and click on a link to validate my account. Web developers still have to create forms, manage the whole process, hash, salt and sauce my password and not leak it.
- manigandham 6y ago
  That already exists as Apple Sign-In: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210318 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210318
  - rakoo 6y ago
    Not really surprising considering how Apple is so focussed on doing proper UX and privacy. Too bad only Apple users can use it.
tylerburnam 6y ago
You have valid concerns but no need to hope for their failure. Tech people are the minority. The market IS moving towards cloud. It's happened, it's happening, it will keep happening. Stadia may have failed now, but it IS conceptually the future of gaming. It's like you're arguing for blockbuster in a netflix world. We cannot stop this from happening, no matter how many choirs we preach to. All we can do is find ways to make this happen better. I think it's more constructive (and technically difficult) to accept that the market is heading to full cloud and we as tech people need to find better ways of making this vibe with good privacy practices. Personally, I would not use anything like this without knowing a lot more about their security. Even then, maybe we're still a few years out from a security perspective before I would feel comfortable storing my passwords and browsing data with a 3rd party server AND pay for it (wild). But, I could see myself doing this if my privacy was ensured. I hope these guys really focus on innovating in that aspect, and then I hope they succeed big.
- teraku 6y ago
  Privacy is not the main concern here, although it's huge. Imagine you buy into this service and they go bust: Suddenly all your history, passwords and cache: poof, gone. It's exactly what local-first advocates tell us is the current enemy, not closed-source. See Kleppmann's latest blog post about the GPL: https://martin.kleppmann.com/2021/04/14/goodbye-gpl.html https://martin.kleppmann.com/2021/04/14/goodbye-gpl.html
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  > Tech people are the minority. That's irrelevant, though. The "tech people" aren't preferring local solutions because they're funny this way - they prefer them because cloud-streamed remote apps objectively sucks. It takes some knowledge about computers to comprehend how and why exactly, but it doesn't change the facts. (To use an analogy - doctors are a minority too, but you listen to them when they say you should vaccinate.) > The market IS moving towards cloud. It's happened, it's happening, it will keep happening. The important question to ask is, why. Why it's happened, why it's happening? The answer has little to do with providing value to customers - it's mostly about creating ability to seek rent. Privacy issues only happen on top of that - they're not the entirety of the problem. > I think it's more constructive (and technically difficult) to accept that the market is heading to full cloud Or, we could fight it. Maybe it's a quixotic quest. Maybe not. The market is a dumb greedy optimizer, it flows down the profitability gradients the way water flows downhill. If you want it to flow elsewhere, you have to put obstacles in the way, or cut out a better path.
Confused_Dev 6y ago
Your point about security is valid. But we are already past that point when we started moving all of our apps and our data to cloud. Before Saas was popular, almost all of our data stayed in our local machine. But now everything is in the cloud. we have already lost the privacy battle.
- api 6y ago
  No, we haven't lost. When all our devices are thin clients and everything runs in the cloud, we will have lost.

by api 6y ago

stephc_int13 6y ago

I am in the same club :) I don't usually care about companies success or failure, this none of my business, after all, but this kind of "innovation" could have extremely unpleasant side effects. I hope they crash quick.

andiareso 6y ago

I think you kinda hit it on the nose. Who knows where or how or who has access to these machines. IDC if it's encrypted in transit or what, but there is no way a corporation with strict data privacy rules would be able to stream potentially sensitive information across the wire especially when it will be stored in the cloud in web form for a period of time. IDK good luck, but I'm definitely tin-foil hatting with this guy above me.

api 6y ago
For me it's not so much a trust issue with this company, though for cloud and mobile stuff I have come to a "guilty until proven innocent" rule as regards privacy. It's (1) the trend this supports, and (2) what happens if worse players get access to it either through hacking or acquisition.
- andiareso 6y ago
  I guess I'm more thinking if the target is enterprise (because it's 30$ a month), what enterprise is going to green light workers using a browser where content doesn't reside on the user's machine? I've worked several tech jobs where it's mandated to use a specific browser because it's locked-down to not leak sensitive information. Not to mention it allows users to access internal resources. IDK I'm not necessarily hating the product, just don't know how it's going to work at scale for the listed CPU/Memory/Price point

rakoo 6y ago

While I totally agree with you, if this succeeds my hope is that it will finally push browser vendors to come up with a good authentication/authorization story. Make it totally integrated in the browser, such that I remain in control and Mighty only sees the equivalent of OAuth token it can't use to login in my name. No more custom signup forms, no more botched login flows redirecting you through 13 sites, no more passwords stored on websites... That is an innovation I would gladly welcome both as a web user and a potential web developer. Every service needs auth. I can't believe nothing is properly integrated. I still have to click and enter a password, which fortunately the browser can create for me. I still have to receive an email and click on a link to validate my account. Web developers still have to create forms, manage the whole process, hash, salt and sauce my password and not leak it.

manigandham 6y ago
That already exists as Apple Sign-In: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210318 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210318
- rakoo 6y ago
  Not really surprising considering how Apple is so focussed on doing proper UX and privacy. Too bad only Apple users can use it.

tylerburnam 6y ago

You have valid concerns but no need to hope for their failure. Tech people are the minority. The market IS moving towards cloud. It's happened, it's happening, it will keep happening. Stadia may have failed now, but it IS conceptually the future of gaming. It's like you're arguing for blockbuster in a netflix world. We cannot stop this from happening, no matter how many choirs we preach to. All we can do is find ways to make this happen better. I think it's more constructive (and technically difficult) to accept that the market is heading to full cloud and we as tech people need to find better ways of making this vibe with good privacy practices. Personally, I would not use anything like this without knowing a lot more about their security. Even then, maybe we're still a few years out from a security perspective before I would feel comfortable storing my passwords and browsing data with a 3rd party server AND pay for it (wild). But, I could see myself doing this if my privacy was ensured. I hope these guys really focus on innovating in that aspect, and then I hope they succeed big.

teraku 6y ago
Privacy is not the main concern here, although it's huge. Imagine you buy into this service and they go bust: Suddenly all your history, passwords and cache: poof, gone. It's exactly what local-first advocates tell us is the current enemy, not closed-source. See Kleppmann's latest blog post about the GPL: https://martin.kleppmann.com/2021/04/14/goodbye-gpl.html https://martin.kleppmann.com/2021/04/14/goodbye-gpl.html
TeMPOraL 6y ago
> Tech people are the minority. That's irrelevant, though. The "tech people" aren't preferring local solutions because they're funny this way - they prefer them because cloud-streamed remote apps objectively sucks. It takes some knowledge about computers to comprehend how and why exactly, but it doesn't change the facts. (To use an analogy - doctors are a minority too, but you listen to them when they say you should vaccinate.) > The market IS moving towards cloud. It's happened, it's happening, it will keep happening. The important question to ask is, why. Why it's happened, why it's happening? The answer has little to do with providing value to customers - it's mostly about creating ability to seek rent. Privacy issues only happen on top of that - they're not the entirety of the problem. > I think it's more constructive (and technically difficult) to accept that the market is heading to full cloud Or, we could fight it. Maybe it's a quixotic quest. Maybe not. The market is a dumb greedy optimizer, it flows down the profitability gradients the way water flows downhill. If you want it to flow elsewhere, you have to put obstacles in the way, or cut out a better path.

Confused_Dev 6y ago

Your point about security is valid. But we are already past that point when we started moving all of our apps and our data to cloud. Before Saas was popular, almost all of our data stayed in our local machine. But now everything is in the cloud. we have already lost the privacy battle.

api 6y ago
No, we haven't lost. When all our devices are thin clients and everything runs in the cloud, we will have lost.