6 ms·

Unfortunately that wouldn't count as European, after Brexit :-)

shimonabi 5y ago
Stop mixing Europe with the EU. EU is a few decades old failed experiment, Europe exists for thousands of years. There is only talk of subsidizing EU chip production, because a few German car executives got worried.
- ginko 5y ago
  >EU is a few decades old failed experiment Why do people say this with such conviction?
  - shimonabi 5y ago
    Because the Euro currency is a nuclear bomb, designed to explode sooner or later and take both Germany and Italy down with it. It is only a matter of time. Bernard Connolly has predicted it all in the 90's.
  - vagrantJin 5y ago
    Probably a result of the widespread panic and pessimism that pervades European life. No idea why though. Seems like the future is a scary idea to Europe and sort of waiting for the other shoe to drop. French President Macron laments this in his book/biography "Last President of Europe"
  - kungito 5y ago
    Independence is a big factor in the identity of people from Europe with many failed attempts to join into bigger states or falling apart with many people wanting even their regions of countries to split into separate countries right now. Eurosceptics often focus on one small part of being a part of EU and hate the whole idea for it. While EU gave many good things, opening up markets made many people lose jobs because they weren't prepared or they got crushed by the economies of scale of bigger companies which they were protected from before. On the other hand, many people feel like their countries are constantly giving handouts to the less developed ones and feel like that money could have gone to them personally instead.
    - sofixa 5y ago
      > Independence is a big factor in the identity of people from Europe with many failed attempts to join into bigger states or falling apart with many people wanting even their regions of countries to split into separate countries right now. The EU changes nothing regarding that, on the contrary, by being European as well as of X nationality, it helps overcome traditional national rivalries. One of the main points in recent Catalonian and Scottish independence movements has been that due to the EU, the economic and legal impact will be minimal. > On the other hand, many people feel like their countries are constantly giving handouts to the less developed ones and feel like that money could have gone to them personally instead And they don't realise that the improvements in neighbouring countries concern them as well, by adding extra markets and expanding them ( a better developed Romania can buy more German-made washing machines, etc.). The cheap labor that moves is a positive contribution. Then there's the incalculable positive from EU sponsored and made possible programmes of cultural and educational exchanges. The worst thing about the EU is its lacking marketing. Most of the bureaucratic problems with it aren't really that far from the same thing in countries.
  - mrweasel 5y ago
    Because the EU is terrible at highlighting what benefits it actually provides to the people in the union. The EU, for all it’s flaws and silly rules is single greatest thing to happen to Europe. But all those good things are only apparent when taken away, the UK is only just now learning that. Free trade and movement across European borders is product of the EU, and it sucks to have it taken away from you.
    - jollybean 5y ago
      "The EU, for all it’s flaws and silly rules is single greatest thing to happen to Europe." Norway and Switzerland have some words for you. More likely just the EEC was the 'greatest thing' and the EU, essentially the political version, is possibly a negative drag. There's not much indication that the trade-plus-politics version of Europe is any better than the 'mostly trade' version. "But all those good things are only apparent when taken away, the UK is only just now learning that. " Like the ability to give it's population lifesaving vaccines months faster than the EU? It will take a decade before we know which actions between EU and UK were specifically problematic, my bet is that it's mostly going to be a wash but it's hard to measure the geopolitical effect and things like leverage on trade - but even there, there might be an EEC-like way to do that. Finally, it'd be much less controversial, as there are almost no skeptics of the free market.
- bserge 5y ago
  Seems to work alright.
  - shimonabi 5y ago
    Where is my Covid vaccine?
    - SiempreViernes 5y ago
      You should ask your national authority, they are the ones in charge of it. Though they do seem to be doing a bad job of informing you.
      - shimonabi 5y ago
        Until this day, the EU only vaccinated around 20% of its population with one dose of the vaccine, the USA did 40% and the UK 50%. The vaccines were bought by the EU and distributed by a quota system to individual member countries. https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
      - mrweasel 5y ago
        To be fair the EU was responsible for buying the vaccines to avoid member states fighting, and they forgot that price wasn’t the only factor and failed to ensure speedy deliveries.
- arp242 5y ago
  The British use "Europe" to refer to the mainland, often implying that Britain isn't part of it. It's not a coincidence they left the EU, and were ever only half-way in the EU. Is Britain part of Europe? Well, it's not a yes/no type of question. "In some ways, but not in others" would probably be the best answer.
  - jollybean 5y ago
    "The United Kingdom, made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, is an island nation in northwestern Europe." The UK is part of Europe, that's for sure. That they use 'Europe' to refer to 'The Continent' is an artifact of their singularity on the Island. Lind of like Quebecers refer to the 'Rest of Canada' as often just 'Canada'. It's as much a part of Europe as Norway is for example, but neither of them belong to the EU.
  - thu2111 5y ago
    No, the habit of conflating the EU with Europe is endemic in Brussels. It's got nothing to do with the UK. Just look at how EU leaders talk.
- Bayart 5y ago
  >EU is a few decades old failed experiment, Europe exists for thousands of years. Despite constant screeching about its imminent demise, the EU still hasn't failed. And "Europe", at least as we think of it, only goes back to Renaissance diplomacy at best, but realistically to the Peace of Westphalia.
  - shimonabi 5y ago
    In our country, Roman law is the dread of every law school freshman.
    - Bayart 5y ago
      Funny, I did some time in law school and legal history (in particular Roman law) was always my favourite part. I've had years of Latin and Greek education and come from a Latin country, so that helps. But the quasi-universality of Roman legal principles is itself very recent, and didn't start to emerge before the late 1700's, very much in the spirit of statecraft launched by the Westphalian era.
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  It has succeeded in preventing an intra-EU war.
  - shimonabi 5y ago
    Wars are economic. The € currency makes the southern countries hate the northern ones and vice-versa. Greece was devastated after the German-enforced austerity after the 2008 economic crisis. We the EU taxpayers had to give the biggest loan in history to the most bankrupt country in history, so that they could repay the German banks, who overinvested in Greece in the previous decade.
- imtringued 5y ago
  The euro is a failed experiment. The EU is fine.

Stop mixing Europe with the EU. EU is a few decades old failed experiment, Europe exists for thousands of years. There is only talk of subsidizing EU chip production, because a few German car executives got worried.

ginko 5y ago
>EU is a few decades old failed experiment Why do people say this with such conviction?
- shimonabi 5y ago
  Because the Euro currency is a nuclear bomb, designed to explode sooner or later and take both Germany and Italy down with it. It is only a matter of time. Bernard Connolly has predicted it all in the 90's.
- vagrantJin 5y ago
  Probably a result of the widespread panic and pessimism that pervades European life. No idea why though. Seems like the future is a scary idea to Europe and sort of waiting for the other shoe to drop. French President Macron laments this in his book/biography "Last President of Europe"
- kungito 5y ago
  Independence is a big factor in the identity of people from Europe with many failed attempts to join into bigger states or falling apart with many people wanting even their regions of countries to split into separate countries right now. Eurosceptics often focus on one small part of being a part of EU and hate the whole idea for it. While EU gave many good things, opening up markets made many people lose jobs because they weren't prepared or they got crushed by the economies of scale of bigger companies which they were protected from before. On the other hand, many people feel like their countries are constantly giving handouts to the less developed ones and feel like that money could have gone to them personally instead.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    > Independence is a big factor in the identity of people from Europe with many failed attempts to join into bigger states or falling apart with many people wanting even their regions of countries to split into separate countries right now. The EU changes nothing regarding that, on the contrary, by being European as well as of X nationality, it helps overcome traditional national rivalries. One of the main points in recent Catalonian and Scottish independence movements has been that due to the EU, the economic and legal impact will be minimal. > On the other hand, many people feel like their countries are constantly giving handouts to the less developed ones and feel like that money could have gone to them personally instead And they don't realise that the improvements in neighbouring countries concern them as well, by adding extra markets and expanding them ( a better developed Romania can buy more German-made washing machines, etc.). The cheap labor that moves is a positive contribution. Then there's the incalculable positive from EU sponsored and made possible programmes of cultural and educational exchanges. The worst thing about the EU is its lacking marketing. Most of the bureaucratic problems with it aren't really that far from the same thing in countries.
- mrweasel 5y ago
  Because the EU is terrible at highlighting what benefits it actually provides to the people in the union. The EU, for all it’s flaws and silly rules is single greatest thing to happen to Europe. But all those good things are only apparent when taken away, the UK is only just now learning that. Free trade and movement across European borders is product of the EU, and it sucks to have it taken away from you.
  - jollybean 5y ago
    "The EU, for all it’s flaws and silly rules is single greatest thing to happen to Europe." Norway and Switzerland have some words for you. More likely just the EEC was the 'greatest thing' and the EU, essentially the political version, is possibly a negative drag. There's not much indication that the trade-plus-politics version of Europe is any better than the 'mostly trade' version. "But all those good things are only apparent when taken away, the UK is only just now learning that. " Like the ability to give it's population lifesaving vaccines months faster than the EU? It will take a decade before we know which actions between EU and UK were specifically problematic, my bet is that it's mostly going to be a wash but it's hard to measure the geopolitical effect and things like leverage on trade - but even there, there might be an EEC-like way to do that. Finally, it'd be much less controversial, as there are almost no skeptics of the free market.
bserge 5y ago
Seems to work alright.
- shimonabi 5y ago
  Where is my Covid vaccine?
  - SiempreViernes 5y ago
    You should ask your national authority, they are the ones in charge of it. Though they do seem to be doing a bad job of informing you.
    - shimonabi 5y ago
      Until this day, the EU only vaccinated around 20% of its population with one dose of the vaccine, the USA did 40% and the UK 50%. The vaccines were bought by the EU and distributed by a quota system to individual member countries. https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
    - mrweasel 5y ago
      To be fair the EU was responsible for buying the vaccines to avoid member states fighting, and they forgot that price wasn’t the only factor and failed to ensure speedy deliveries.
arp242 5y ago
The British use "Europe" to refer to the mainland, often implying that Britain isn't part of it. It's not a coincidence they left the EU, and were ever only half-way in the EU. Is Britain part of Europe? Well, it's not a yes/no type of question. "In some ways, but not in others" would probably be the best answer.
- jollybean 5y ago
  "The United Kingdom, made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, is an island nation in northwestern Europe." The UK is part of Europe, that's for sure. That they use 'Europe' to refer to 'The Continent' is an artifact of their singularity on the Island. Lind of like Quebecers refer to the 'Rest of Canada' as often just 'Canada'. It's as much a part of Europe as Norway is for example, but neither of them belong to the EU.
- thu2111 5y ago
  No, the habit of conflating the EU with Europe is endemic in Brussels. It's got nothing to do with the UK. Just look at how EU leaders talk.
Bayart 5y ago
>EU is a few decades old failed experiment, Europe exists for thousands of years. Despite constant screeching about its imminent demise, the EU still hasn't failed. And "Europe", at least as we think of it, only goes back to Renaissance diplomacy at best, but realistically to the Peace of Westphalia.
- shimonabi 5y ago
  In our country, Roman law is the dread of every law school freshman.
  - Bayart 5y ago
    Funny, I did some time in law school and legal history (in particular Roman law) was always my favourite part. I've had years of Latin and Greek education and come from a Latin country, so that helps. But the quasi-universality of Roman legal principles is itself very recent, and didn't start to emerge before the late 1700's, very much in the spirit of statecraft launched by the Westphalian era.
mensetmanusman 5y ago
It has succeeded in preventing an intra-EU war.
- shimonabi 5y ago
  Wars are economic. The € currency makes the southern countries hate the northern ones and vice-versa. Greece was devastated after the German-enforced austerity after the 2008 economic crisis. We the EU taxpayers had to give the biggest loan in history to the most bankrupt country in history, so that they could repay the German banks, who overinvested in Greece in the previous decade.
imtringued 5y ago
The euro is a failed experiment. The EU is fine.