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I really want the next MacBook Pro to support driving two 4K monitors over thunderbolt and have an option to buy 32 gigs of ram.

lathiat 5y ago
Me too
bhouston 5y ago
I would prefer just one 6K or 8K monitor personally at a size of say 55" with a wide ratio. Simpler setup. No post in the middle. Something like this but bigger with higher resolution, and maybe a bit more height vertically (this one is a bit too wide for its height in my opinion): https://www.samsung.com/ca/monitors/gaming/super-ultra-wide-dual-qhd-32-9-gaming-monitor-49-inch-lc49rg90ssnxza/ https://www.samsung.com/ca/monitors/gaming/super-ultra-wide-... I think that dual 4K is the old way, single 6K/8K ultra wides are the future. That said I am rocking the dual 4Ks on the Mac Mini M1 and it works great: https://twitter.com/BenHouston3D/status/1384693982249340935 https://twitter.com/BenHouston3D/status/1384693982249340935
- meepmorp 5y ago
  Do you have periodic weirdness on the thunderbolt monitor? Every so often, my m1 mini wakes or boots so that there’s a vertical misalignment by a pixel or two about halfway across. It’s like the desktop was cut in half and taped back together slightly crooked.
  - alanwreath 5y ago
    YES -- it's not just me! At first I thought my monitors were somehow broken (which is unfortunate as I paid a bit extra for name brand LG). I suspected something, as each monitor is plugged into an M1 computer (one's a Mac mini M1 and the other a MacBook Air m1). Both exhibit the visual problem you describe on a random basis.
    - alanwreath 5y ago
      pairing this with another comment by myself (about multi-monitor support beyond only one external monitor). I wonder if this is the main reason that Apple didn't support more than one external. Does the issue exhibit itself even more when additional monitors are connected? To be clear it never occurs with my main MacBook Air screen (only the external).
    - BoardsOfCanada 5y ago
      Just as a data point, I have an MBP M1 and an LG external monitor and this has never happened to me in almost 6 months usage.
      - alanwreath 5y ago
        I didn't mention this but it didn't happen initially, only after a couple months did the random screen errors happen. And power cycling, disconnecting/reconnecting/changing cables, etc to the monitor changes nothing.
  - gwking 5y ago
    I haev this problem! For me it's a strip about 2 inches wide, down the middle, one pixel higher than the rest of the image. I am using an LG 5k monitor, and I have been unsure if it's a problem with the monitor or the machine. I'd love to know what kind of monitor you are using; this gives me hope that it might be an apple bug that will get fixed eventually.
    - meepmorp 5y ago
      I have an LG 5k, too! And it only happens on that monitor - my LG 4k over HDMI is fine.
      - astrange 5y ago
        It's because the 5K monitor is actually two monitors taped together ("multi-stream transport").
        brigade 5y ago
        It is two streams but it actually isn’t MST. It’s two independent HBR2 links; MST would have been two streams over one HBR2 link, which doesn’t have the bandwidth for 5k.
    - arghnoname 5y ago
      I also have this problem--also an LG 5K. Disconnecting and reconnecting seems to fix it for now. No idea if it's the monitor of the laptop, but it's the exact same problem and hopefully hardware doesn't glitch in such a consistent way and it can be fixed in software.
  - macNchz 5y ago
    I don't have an M1 machine, but I have had periodic weirdness on external monitors (of every flavor) when waking from sleep on all the Mac laptops I've owned over the last 10 years.
    - alanwreath 5y ago
      that is ... bad luck. Or I have really good luck (having used mac's for over 20 years). This situation is a first for me (and in my case happens during normal usage, ie not upon waking) - though given Apple's recent track record screams buggy software
  - dfinninger 5y ago
    I have this happen on my Windows PC every now and again. It’s on the monitor that’s hooked up via DisplayPort.
    - bhouston 5y ago
      I have run into poor quality DisplayPort cables in the past. I now only buy ones I know are brand name.
  - bhouston 5y ago
    I have zero weirdness at all. It just works perfectly all the time. Neither monitor supports Thunderbolt. But I run off of a USB-C to Display Port cable and one is using the HDMI port. Both run at 60Hz as it is HDMI 2.
    - alanwreath 5y ago
      I run from display port to usb-c adapter -- I wonder if it is my adapter which is a simple Cable Matters adapter (which gets somewhat warm). Be nice if you shared what adapter you're using for comparison.
  - jclardy 5y ago
    I have an Acer Predator that has this issue (Whether using my Mac or PC attached.) Power cycling the monitor makes it go away. Basically the left side of the screen is shifted one pixel higher than the right side of the screen, making a vertical line down the middle where the shift changes.
    - alanwreath 5y ago
      in my case power cycling does not change anything, could be a separate issue for you. In my case it is also retaining a "ghost" of previous pages I've had open. It does eventually go away (and most of the time is not there).
- solarkraft 5y ago
  I use a 55" 4K Samsung TV as a monitor. It cold boots quickly and has no latency or subsampling issues in the right mode. I can recommend it as a more cost effective alternative to multiple monitors. The amount of available screen space at 1:1 is refreshing (not as crazy as imagined though), but it makes me realize how grainy "normal" monitors are. In some years 8K TVs might be cheap enough for an upgrade, but on that time scale I can see VR being a serious contender as well (it's really good already).
  - sgt 5y ago
    One thing about TV's is that they are grainy up close. Being a 55" you probably don't sit very close to it, but how does it overall feel e.g. in font quality? And I also wonder if it's good for your eyes to focus on something that's constantly far away. I would think a mixture of the two (normal distance to a PC monitor with frequent breaks) would be preferred.
    - solarkraft 5y ago
      > how does it overall feel e.g. in font quality? > they are grainy up close Hmm, maybe it's its "TV-ness", but the individual pixels look pretty sharp to me at a close look (no quantum dots or weird pentile arrangement, that should definitely be looked out for), but I have no other low DPI display to compare it to. My reasoning was always "it's just an LCD panel, why would it be different" and so far I feel proven right. > I also wonder if it's good for your eyes to focus on something that's constantly far away My appeal-to-nature-argument would be that the natural human mix would probably have been much heavier towards looking into the distance than it is now (see the massive rise of near-sightedness in cities), so it can only be better than what we're currently doing.
      - dsr_ 5y ago
        It's best for your eyes to change focal distance. Staring off into infinity, staring at 75cm, and staring at 30cm are all bad for you. Find something else to look at every so often. There are few differences between a 4K 42" screen and 4 1080P 21" screens: the smaller screens can be angled, they have bezels, and are probably more expensive in aggregate.
- masklinn 5y ago
  > I would prefer just one 6K or 8K monitor personally Sure but the Air and MBP already support 6k external displays. They don’t support 2x4K.
  - bhouston 5y ago
    I do agree. But what I am trying to say is that we should be pushing for 6K and 8K ultra wide monitors rather than the old hack of 2 monitors to one computer.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      There are times I actually prefer 2 separate monitors. Allowing one monitor to quickly go full screen while continuing to use the other monitor is quite useful in my workflows.
      - macintux 5y ago
        Virtual desktops are also more useful with two separate displays, or at least lend themselves to different use cases.
    - Foxhuls 5y ago
      Out of curiosity, when did you last use a single monitor instead of your current dual monitor setup? I’ve been using an ultrawide since 2015 but have almost always had a second side monitor with it. The period where I didn’t have a second monitor was short as having a separate monitor has always come in handy. All of the extra space on an ultrawide is great but when you’re doing something that takes the whole screen, it still leaves you in the same position you would be with a single 16:9 display.
      - masklinn 5y ago
        Not the GP, and I really don't agree with their position, but I did switch from two monitors to a single UW last year. TBF my old setup was a decade old so it was merely a 24" (1920x1200) and a 19" (1280x1024 in portrait). Though my new display has a much larger logical size, the inability to put something fullscreen on one of the monitors (whether the small one or the large one, depending on the content) is definitely one of the drawbacks I had a hard time getting used to, not only can it be inconvenient, it actually wastes space as I can't get rid of window decorations, which putting e.g. a video player or browser window in fullscreen allowed.
- lofi_lory 5y ago
  Something like this... but a lot cheaper please. Like <500€ please.
- throw0101a 5y ago
  > No post in the middle. I personally prefer the visual break as I find it useful for creating fixed 'work areas': terminals/xterms, browser, mail, etc.
  - xnx 5y ago
    With a single screen, you can add any virtual (stripe of pixels) or physical divider (piece of tape) that you like. With two screens, there's no way to remove the gap.
- powvans 5y ago
  1000x this. For several years I've been eyeing the 49" ultrawides as a replacement for my current 34" ultrawide. It would definitely be a big upgrade, but I keep thinking that something high DPI must be around the corner in that format. The years just keep rolling by and it seems like display tech barely advances.
  - mleo 5y ago
    I purchased the Dell 49” ultra wide to replace a Thunderbolt Display and 27” 4K. It is effectively the same resolution as I was using. It is nice not having the break and being able to better center windows. Split window views are much easier to work with when being able to see the entire line of code.
- samgranieri 5y ago
  Here's an old picture of how I use 2 4k monitors at home https://i.imgur.com/Wwr6G42.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Wwr6G42.jpg (I've upgraded my desk and keyboard since) I'd strongly consider getting a 6k monitor, or maybe a 5k2k ultrawide if I didn't already have two my two Dell 27inch 4ks.
- chevill 5y ago
  >I think that dual 4K is the old way, single 6K/8K ultra wides are the future. In the near future 16:9 8ks are going to be standard (too bad it won't be 16:10) but right now you can get a decent triple 4k monitor setup for half of what an 8k monitor costs. IMO ultra-wide is great for productivity in a situational sense but it sucks for gaming and media consumption. Also getting proper support for ultra-wide to be standard is probably going to take another decade. I think there's something to be said for each monitor being a separate entity. I think some people will still prefer multiple monitors over ultra-wide even when support for ultra-wide is a solved problem. My personal setup now is a 28" 4k@60hz, a 32" 1440P@240hz as a primary and a 24" 1440p@144hz. I have my work computer, my desktop, a mac-mini, a switch, and a PS4 running off of them so having separate monitors is ideal for me. Ultra-wides and super-ultrawides are cool, but IMO they aren't as practical yet.
  - Foxhuls 5y ago
    I’ve been playing games on an ultrawide since 2015 so I’m going to have to disagree hard with you. In the beginning ultrawide support was hit or miss but at this point I’d safely say 90-95% of games support ultrawide. There are also of plenty gaming specific ultrawide monitor options. I still have a second 16:9 monitor on the side because I do agree with your point of monitors being a separate entity. There are programs from dividing the space of monitors but if you’re used to multiple monitors I don’t think switching to a single monitor of any size will be a good replacement. I think it’s also worth throwing in that watching movies on my ultrawide is my favorite place to do it as the 21:9 aspect ratio means that movies stretch to the entire screen. It’s definitely an amazing experience.
    - chevill 5y ago
      >In the beginning ultrawide support was hit or miss but at this point I’d safely say 90-95% of games support ultrawide. There's support, and then there's that support being so flawless that its the same quality of experience you would get with a standard aspect ratio. Each of us has our own standard of what's good enough. Its working out for you but the people I game with that were using ultra-wide monitors switched back due to the number of issues they were having, as recently as last year. I did some research myself when I was upgrading my monitor and some of the games I played would have had issues so or me personally it wasn't good enough. Another thing to consider is a lot of game content is designed with standard aspect ratios in mind, so whether expanding the viewpoint makes it better is going to be a personal standard. It will be interesting to see if UW monitors do become a standard in a couple of decades whether game developers start specifically making content that utilizes the extra space to offer something that isn't possible with existing games.
- bobmaxup 5y ago
  How do you deal with full screen video, games, etc on a single monitor?
- redm 5y ago
  8k is 4x the resolution of 4k at a 16:9 aspect ratio. It would require supporting 4x 4k displays. Example: https://i.pcmag.com/imagery/articles/07toBDd6lpyucCyM0xWrcQv-1.fit_lim.size_1942x1089.v_1569470731.jpg https://i.pcmag.com/imagery/articles/07toBDd6lpyucCyM0xWrcQv...
- jedberg 5y ago
  I much prefer two monitors. I run each one as separate desktops, which means I can have "left screen apps" and "right screen apps" and cycle them independently. It also means I can switch desktops on my left screen while my apps on my right screen stay where they are. Also, with two screens, I can adjust the angle between them to be more or less severe.
  - GordonS 5y ago
    Yeah, I even actually kind of like the "post" between monitors that the GP mentioned (as long as the bezels are thin :) - it help as a kind of mental division between types of work. Also, 2 monitors means more choice in layout; for example, my 2nd monitor is in portrait orientation.
- ticviking 5y ago
  Only if I can have a nice tiling WM. I work on mac all day and on my 1440p widescreen I am constantly trying to put stuff so I can use everything I want to at the same time. `[Code|App|Docs]` is so common we ought to be able to split a wide screen 3 ways the way we do a normal 2.
  - spockz 5y ago
    Try out Rectangle.app. It saved my bacon mentally and can tile windows how you want. Just not automatically like a full tiling window manager. https://rectangleapp.com/ https://rectangleapp.com/
    - Cd00d 5y ago
      +1 on Rectangle recommendation. Learn a few hot-keys (or rely on the menubar dropdown) and you can very easily get any layout of windows you want. I was using Spectacle before, but I think the project died, and Rectangle is what I use now.
  - bartvk 5y ago
    Rectangle was mentioned, but I'm currently using Amethyst: https://github.com/ianyh/Amethyst https://github.com/ianyh/Amethyst It was recommended to me here on HN, and it's been very, very nice.
- prawn 5y ago
  I'd prefer two distinct monitors. I use one more expensive colour-calibrated one, and then a standard one for work where colour isn't as critical. A large colour-calibrated screen would be prohibitively expensive.
Chazprime 5y ago
I suspect that the MacBook Pro 16 will probably one of the first M2 offerings and it already offers up to 64g of RAM, so hopefully you’ll get your wish.
- esotericsean 5y ago
  This is exactly what I've been waiting for!
octopoc 5y ago
The latest Macbook Pro 16" supports 32GB or 64GB RAM [1]. It's been that way for a few generations. I have the 2018 model and it has 32GB. I think that might have been the first generation where that much RAM was supported. [1] https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-16/specs/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-16/specs/ edit: oh right, that's not M1 brainfart
- wombat-man 5y ago
  yeah but they want that with apple silicon
- martimarkov 5y ago
  Yea but that one uses the intel cpu. The problem with M1 is that it only supports up to 16 right now. And no eGPU. :/
- jonwachob91 5y ago
  Those are intel based Macs. This being an article about the M1 going into mass production, it's probably fair to say the parent comment was referring to those specs in an M1 Mac, not an intel Mac.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
jbluepolarbear 5y ago
I use a Wavlink 4K dock to drive 2 4K monitors on my Mac.
- samgranieri 5y ago
  I've got a Caldigit TS3
  - erikpukinskis 5y ago
    Sansibit MM4 for me
lizknope 5y ago
Does it support two 4K monitors now? I have an old Macbook from 2013 that runs Linux now with an Intel integrated GPU and it supports dual 4K monitors at 30Hz. I use the Thunderbolt ports as Mini DisplayPort outputs and connect to two 4K monitors with DisplayPort and it works fine.
- clashmoore 5y ago
  M1 laptops can only support one external display at 6k and 60Hz. The other video goes to the laptop's own display. Even if you use the laptop closed in clamshell mode you can't connect or daisy chain to more than one external display. The mini can support two external displays. One via thunderbolt at that same 6k and 60Hz and the other a 4k at 60Hz through the HDMI port.
  - staticfloat 5y ago
    Note that the restriction on external monitors can be worked around by using a DisplayLink compatible dongle/dock, since it uses a custom driver (I assume it does something in software that would otherwise be limited in hardware). I use the Dell D6000 and I run three (1080p) external monitors in addition to the built in monitor.
    - clashmoore 5y ago
      I've been trying to find a DisplayLink dock that can output video via USB-C or Thunderbolt. Everybody's shared solutions always involve HDMI connections, never USB-C. I have two Thunderbolt/USB-C monitors that I was hoping to daisy chain with one wire from my Mac. Alas it's not possible. My hope is power into a dock. Thunderbolt from dock to laptop to power laptop. Thunderbolt/USB-C from dock into first monitor. Second Thunderbolt/USB-C from dock using the DisplayLink tech to second monitor.
      - jsjohnst 5y ago
        You won’t find a Displaylink adapter that supports Thunderbolt monitors. It just won’t work from a technical aspect.
aldanor 5y ago
Really hoping for 128-256gb ram limit, perhaps on a separate ddr. E.g., any sort of serious data science work is now impossible on m1s simply because of ram limits.
- dman 5y ago
  In a laptop?
  - forgetfulness 5y ago
    Maybe the commenter has a very interesting use for it, but why would you buy a 256 GB RAM machine (which isn't a lot of memory for this arena either) to develop the model, instead of using something smaller to work on it and leasing a big cluster for the minutes to hours of the day that you'll need to train it on the actual dataset?
    - aldanor 5y ago
      Kicking learns off on a cluster is surely a thing as well. And in some fields, as you correctly mentioned, memory requirements may be measured in terabytes. It's more of a 'production use case' though - what I meant is the 'dev use case'. For instance, playing with mid/high frequency market data, plotting various things, just quickly looking at the data and various metrics, trying and testing things out often requires up too 100gb of memory at disposal at any time. It's definitely not only about model training. And 'something smaller to work on' principle doesn't always work in these cases. If the whole thing fits in my local ram, I would of course prefer to work on it locally until I actually need cluster resources. (But seriously though... what is 16gb these days? Looking at process monitor, I think my firefox takes over 5gb now since I have over a thousand tabs in treestyletab, clion + pycharm take another 5gb, parallels vm for some work stuff is another 10gb; if doing any local data science work that's usually at least a dozen gb or a few dozen or more)
    - nonameiguess 5y ago
      I don't do this kind of thing any more, but back when I did, the one thing that consistently bit me was exploratory analysis requiring one-hot encoding of categorical data where you might have thousands upon thousands of categories. Take something like the Walmart shopper segmentation challenge on Kaggle that a hobbyist might want to take a shot at. That's just exploratory analysis, not model training. Having to do that in the cloud would be quite annoying when your feedback loop involves updating plots that you would really like to have in-memory on a machine connected to your monitor. Granted, you can forward a Jupyter server from an EC2, but also the high-memory EC2s are extremely expensive for hobbyists, way more than just buying your own RAM if you're going to do it often.
atonse 5y ago
Compared to M1? Because my Intel MBP has done that for years. I now use an M1 mac mini with two 4k monitors (not from one cable though)
- dan1234 5y ago
  The M1 MacBooks can only drive 1 external monitor because they're already driving the internal display.
- thruhiker 5y ago
  I have a 2018 Mac Mini driving two 4K displays with Display Port over USB-C cables. I previously was driving 2 x 24" 2K displays (same cables) and had no performance problems. Once I upgraded to the 4K displays I've observed very noticeable display draw performance issues. It's not enough for me to give up the 4K displays but I'm wondering if this is improved on the current M1 Mac mini?
  - atonse 5y ago
    I haven’t noticed any display lag on my end. But I don’t do latency sensitive things like gaming. 1 monitor (Dell P2715Q) is hooked up using DisplayPort. The other (LG 27” IPS 4K) is using HDMI 2.0. Both are running 4K retina at 60Hz without any issues. I had so much trouble finding this out before I bought it which is why I am vocal about the fact that it works.
    - thruhiker 5y ago
      Thanks for the information! I am tempted to upgrade my 2018 when the next revision (M1X or M2?) Mac mini comes out to improve the display refresh rate issues.
atomlib 5y ago
You can achieve that and even more if you do the right thing and stay with the x86-64.
christkv 5y ago
or 16gb high speed on die and another pool of DDR4 memory outside.
DCKing 5y ago
The current RAM restrictions in the M1 are dumb restrictions resulting from the fact that you can't get LPDDR4X chips larger than 8GB in size (the M1 has two on SoC LPDDR4X chips). This year we should see a lot of CPU manufacturers change to (LP)DDR5 for memory - high end Samsung and Qualcomm SoCs are already using LPDDR5. It's a safe bet Apple is also switching to LPDDR5 which would put the upper limit on 64GB for the M2. This is notably still lower than the 128GB you can put in the current 27" iMac (for an eye watering $2600 extra), but is an amount far more pro users can live with.
- hajile 5y ago
  Samsung makes a very large 12GB module. I’m sure that offering would be taken advantage of by a lot of people if they’d just put it in the table. The real issue is not shipping the M1 with LPDDR5 support. We already have tons of Qualcomm phones and even Intel processors shipping with since last year. If Apple had done the same, we wouldn’t be talking about this today.
  - DCKing 5y ago
    > The real issue is not shipping the M1 with LPDDR5 support. I brought this up before but it was pointed out to me that the only manufacturer of LPDDR5 last year was Samsung, which was producing not-completely-standardized LPDDR5 at the time and probably didn't have enough spare volume for Apple anyway. Having 12GB LPDDR4X modules from one vendor (24GB total) probably is not enough reason for Apple to switch up their supply chain either, not for the M1 at least. And, to be fair, I think Apple did get away with shipping low memory computers by targeting only their cheapest computers.
    - jolux 5y ago
      16GB is not "low memory" for the vast majority of users.
      - monocasa 5y ago
        You'd be surprised how quickly a regular user can eat that these days with electron apps and a browser. My MIL would pretty routinely get out of memory errors at 16GB and she's hardly a power user. Somehow her Facebook tab would clock in at over a GB alone.
dmitriid 5y ago
I really want Apple to actually support external monitor properly. Here's an incomplete and continuously updated list of monitors (not) working with Apple hardware: https://tonsky.me/blog/monitors-mac/ https://tonsky.me/blog/monitors-mac/
- lowbloodsugar 5y ago
  I finally bought an external graphics card bay for my i9 15", and now it's obsolete. =)
Tuna-Fish 5y ago
> have an option to buy 32 gigs of ram. I think it's quite likely that M2 will have a 128-bit lpddr5 interface. Using widely available modules, this would allow them up to 64GB ram.
- EricE 5y ago
  I would love that! I got an M1 MacBook Air - unfortunately it was so good I found it could run the games I like perfectly well, which I hadn't planned on doing. It ran everything just fine except for Cities:Skylines. I have way to many mods and assets for 16GB of RAM to be reasonable, so it was with much reluctance I took it back on the last day of my return window. Being able to drop my Windows gaming PC and consolidate everything onto one machine will be very nice though! And I may spring for a larger size screen if I am going to have to abandon the MBA class of machine. Returning it still hurts. I was really hoping for something that would take more than 32GB of RAM but am not surprised that it's still going to be later this year. The guts in the new iMac would be perfect for my Mom if they just offered a 27" replacement too. Oh well. A few more months won't kill me.
2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
I'm no silicon architect but isn't this why performance is so good? They can cut out all those extra pcie lanes and extraneous stuff and focus on performance. If you start adding back big I/O won't you just be back down to Earth with everyone else?
- adgjlsfhk1 5y ago
  Not really. The main reason the M1 doesn't have good IO is that it's a beefed up ipad CPU. This was the first generation where they were putting the chips in systems that can use IO, so they probably are just behind on the design for those parts of the chip.
  - mcphage 5y ago
    > The main reason the M1 doesn't have good IO is that it's a beefed up ipad CPU. This was the first generation where they were putting the chips in systems that can use IO Could you explain what you mean by this? I don't think I understand.
    - hans-moleman 5y ago
      All of Apple’s prior ARM experience comes from iOS devices. They had no need to develop io capabilities for iPhones and iPads with a single port. Now they put the chips in computers but most likely haven’t fully yet developed extended io capabilities.
      - mcphage 5y ago
        Hmm, but wouldn't features like wifi, all the cameras, the touchscreen, Cellular data, NFC, touch ID, speakers, bluetooth, and so on all come in via IO as well? You're right that they only have one port, but they still connect to a lot of different components.
        dijit 5y ago
        Those usually connect over serial-esque busses, and they connect via a security chip. (Akin to the t2 chip but much lighter) A far cry from the kind of tolerances and sustained high throughput of PCIe.
ojbyrne 5y ago
My current MBP drives 3 4K monitors and has 64 gigs of ram. Perhaps I’m not clear on the point you’re trying to make.
- prawn 5y ago
  They're talking about M1 or better. My M1 13" MBP with 8GB RAM is far superior to my 2015 MBP (with more RAM) when it comes to video editing, etc. First in my wishlist would be re-adding two external displays, then more RAM.
busymom0 5y ago
> buy 32 gigs of ram Even their Mac mini doesn't offer a 32 gigs of ram. One of the reasons I had to go with Intel version instead of M1 because at least I could upgrade to 32gb ram myself (plus was cheaper). There is no reason why they can't offer 32 gigs ram on non-laptop lines.

lathiat 5y ago

Me too

bhouston 5y ago

I would prefer just one 6K or 8K monitor personally at a size of say 55" with a wide ratio. Simpler setup. No post in the middle. Something like this but bigger with higher resolution, and maybe a bit more height vertically (this one is a bit too wide for its height in my opinion): https://www.samsung.com/ca/monitors/gaming/super-ultra-wide-dual-qhd-32-9-gaming-monitor-49-inch-lc49rg90ssnxza/ https://www.samsung.com/ca/monitors/gaming/super-ultra-wide-... I think that dual 4K is the old way, single 6K/8K ultra wides are the future. That said I am rocking the dual 4Ks on the Mac Mini M1 and it works great: https://twitter.com/BenHouston3D/status/1384693982249340935 https://twitter.com/BenHouston3D/status/1384693982249340935

meepmorp 5y ago
Do you have periodic weirdness on the thunderbolt monitor? Every so often, my m1 mini wakes or boots so that there’s a vertical misalignment by a pixel or two about halfway across. It’s like the desktop was cut in half and taped back together slightly crooked.
- alanwreath 5y ago
  YES -- it's not just me! At first I thought my monitors were somehow broken (which is unfortunate as I paid a bit extra for name brand LG). I suspected something, as each monitor is plugged into an M1 computer (one's a Mac mini M1 and the other a MacBook Air m1). Both exhibit the visual problem you describe on a random basis.
  - alanwreath 5y ago
    pairing this with another comment by myself (about multi-monitor support beyond only one external monitor). I wonder if this is the main reason that Apple didn't support more than one external. Does the issue exhibit itself even more when additional monitors are connected? To be clear it never occurs with my main MacBook Air screen (only the external).
  - BoardsOfCanada 5y ago
    Just as a data point, I have an MBP M1 and an LG external monitor and this has never happened to me in almost 6 months usage.
    - alanwreath 5y ago
      I didn't mention this but it didn't happen initially, only after a couple months did the random screen errors happen. And power cycling, disconnecting/reconnecting/changing cables, etc to the monitor changes nothing.
- gwking 5y ago
  I haev this problem! For me it's a strip about 2 inches wide, down the middle, one pixel higher than the rest of the image. I am using an LG 5k monitor, and I have been unsure if it's a problem with the monitor or the machine. I'd love to know what kind of monitor you are using; this gives me hope that it might be an apple bug that will get fixed eventually.
  - meepmorp 5y ago
    I have an LG 5k, too! And it only happens on that monitor - my LG 4k over HDMI is fine.
    - astrange 5y ago
      It's because the 5K monitor is actually two monitors taped together ("multi-stream transport").
      - brigade 5y ago
        It is two streams but it actually isn’t MST. It’s two independent HBR2 links; MST would have been two streams over one HBR2 link, which doesn’t have the bandwidth for 5k.
  - arghnoname 5y ago
    I also have this problem--also an LG 5K. Disconnecting and reconnecting seems to fix it for now. No idea if it's the monitor of the laptop, but it's the exact same problem and hopefully hardware doesn't glitch in such a consistent way and it can be fixed in software.
- macNchz 5y ago
  I don't have an M1 machine, but I have had periodic weirdness on external monitors (of every flavor) when waking from sleep on all the Mac laptops I've owned over the last 10 years.
  - alanwreath 5y ago
    that is ... bad luck. Or I have really good luck (having used mac's for over 20 years). This situation is a first for me (and in my case happens during normal usage, ie not upon waking) - though given Apple's recent track record screams buggy software
- dfinninger 5y ago
  I have this happen on my Windows PC every now and again. It’s on the monitor that’s hooked up via DisplayPort.
  - bhouston 5y ago
    I have run into poor quality DisplayPort cables in the past. I now only buy ones I know are brand name.
- bhouston 5y ago
  I have zero weirdness at all. It just works perfectly all the time. Neither monitor supports Thunderbolt. But I run off of a USB-C to Display Port cable and one is using the HDMI port. Both run at 60Hz as it is HDMI 2.
  - alanwreath 5y ago
    I run from display port to usb-c adapter -- I wonder if it is my adapter which is a simple Cable Matters adapter (which gets somewhat warm). Be nice if you shared what adapter you're using for comparison.
- jclardy 5y ago
  I have an Acer Predator that has this issue (Whether using my Mac or PC attached.) Power cycling the monitor makes it go away. Basically the left side of the screen is shifted one pixel higher than the right side of the screen, making a vertical line down the middle where the shift changes.
  - alanwreath 5y ago
    in my case power cycling does not change anything, could be a separate issue for you. In my case it is also retaining a "ghost" of previous pages I've had open. It does eventually go away (and most of the time is not there).
solarkraft 5y ago
I use a 55" 4K Samsung TV as a monitor. It cold boots quickly and has no latency or subsampling issues in the right mode. I can recommend it as a more cost effective alternative to multiple monitors. The amount of available screen space at 1:1 is refreshing (not as crazy as imagined though), but it makes me realize how grainy "normal" monitors are. In some years 8K TVs might be cheap enough for an upgrade, but on that time scale I can see VR being a serious contender as well (it's really good already).
- sgt 5y ago
  One thing about TV's is that they are grainy up close. Being a 55" you probably don't sit very close to it, but how does it overall feel e.g. in font quality? And I also wonder if it's good for your eyes to focus on something that's constantly far away. I would think a mixture of the two (normal distance to a PC monitor with frequent breaks) would be preferred.
  - solarkraft 5y ago
    > how does it overall feel e.g. in font quality? > they are grainy up close Hmm, maybe it's its "TV-ness", but the individual pixels look pretty sharp to me at a close look (no quantum dots or weird pentile arrangement, that should definitely be looked out for), but I have no other low DPI display to compare it to. My reasoning was always "it's just an LCD panel, why would it be different" and so far I feel proven right. > I also wonder if it's good for your eyes to focus on something that's constantly far away My appeal-to-nature-argument would be that the natural human mix would probably have been much heavier towards looking into the distance than it is now (see the massive rise of near-sightedness in cities), so it can only be better than what we're currently doing.
    - dsr_ 5y ago
      It's best for your eyes to change focal distance. Staring off into infinity, staring at 75cm, and staring at 30cm are all bad for you. Find something else to look at every so often. There are few differences between a 4K 42" screen and 4 1080P 21" screens: the smaller screens can be angled, they have bezels, and are probably more expensive in aggregate.
masklinn 5y ago
> I would prefer just one 6K or 8K monitor personally Sure but the Air and MBP already support 6k external displays. They don’t support 2x4K.
- bhouston 5y ago
  I do agree. But what I am trying to say is that we should be pushing for 6K and 8K ultra wide monitors rather than the old hack of 2 monitors to one computer.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    There are times I actually prefer 2 separate monitors. Allowing one monitor to quickly go full screen while continuing to use the other monitor is quite useful in my workflows.
    - macintux 5y ago
      Virtual desktops are also more useful with two separate displays, or at least lend themselves to different use cases.
  - Foxhuls 5y ago
    Out of curiosity, when did you last use a single monitor instead of your current dual monitor setup? I’ve been using an ultrawide since 2015 but have almost always had a second side monitor with it. The period where I didn’t have a second monitor was short as having a separate monitor has always come in handy. All of the extra space on an ultrawide is great but when you’re doing something that takes the whole screen, it still leaves you in the same position you would be with a single 16:9 display.
    - masklinn 5y ago
      Not the GP, and I really don't agree with their position, but I did switch from two monitors to a single UW last year. TBF my old setup was a decade old so it was merely a 24" (1920x1200) and a 19" (1280x1024 in portrait). Though my new display has a much larger logical size, the inability to put something fullscreen on one of the monitors (whether the small one or the large one, depending on the content) is definitely one of the drawbacks I had a hard time getting used to, not only can it be inconvenient, it actually wastes space as I can't get rid of window decorations, which putting e.g. a video player or browser window in fullscreen allowed.
lofi_lory 5y ago
Something like this... but a lot cheaper please. Like <500€ please.
throw0101a 5y ago
> No post in the middle. I personally prefer the visual break as I find it useful for creating fixed 'work areas': terminals/xterms, browser, mail, etc.
- xnx 5y ago
  With a single screen, you can add any virtual (stripe of pixels) or physical divider (piece of tape) that you like. With two screens, there's no way to remove the gap.
powvans 5y ago
1000x this. For several years I've been eyeing the 49" ultrawides as a replacement for my current 34" ultrawide. It would definitely be a big upgrade, but I keep thinking that something high DPI must be around the corner in that format. The years just keep rolling by and it seems like display tech barely advances.
- mleo 5y ago
  I purchased the Dell 49” ultra wide to replace a Thunderbolt Display and 27” 4K. It is effectively the same resolution as I was using. It is nice not having the break and being able to better center windows. Split window views are much easier to work with when being able to see the entire line of code.
samgranieri 5y ago
Here's an old picture of how I use 2 4k monitors at home https://i.imgur.com/Wwr6G42.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Wwr6G42.jpg (I've upgraded my desk and keyboard since) I'd strongly consider getting a 6k monitor, or maybe a 5k2k ultrawide if I didn't already have two my two Dell 27inch 4ks.
chevill 5y ago
>I think that dual 4K is the old way, single 6K/8K ultra wides are the future. In the near future 16:9 8ks are going to be standard (too bad it won't be 16:10) but right now you can get a decent triple 4k monitor setup for half of what an 8k monitor costs. IMO ultra-wide is great for productivity in a situational sense but it sucks for gaming and media consumption. Also getting proper support for ultra-wide to be standard is probably going to take another decade. I think there's something to be said for each monitor being a separate entity. I think some people will still prefer multiple monitors over ultra-wide even when support for ultra-wide is a solved problem. My personal setup now is a 28" 4k@60hz, a 32" 1440P@240hz as a primary and a 24" 1440p@144hz. I have my work computer, my desktop, a mac-mini, a switch, and a PS4 running off of them so having separate monitors is ideal for me. Ultra-wides and super-ultrawides are cool, but IMO they aren't as practical yet.
- Foxhuls 5y ago
  I’ve been playing games on an ultrawide since 2015 so I’m going to have to disagree hard with you. In the beginning ultrawide support was hit or miss but at this point I’d safely say 90-95% of games support ultrawide. There are also of plenty gaming specific ultrawide monitor options. I still have a second 16:9 monitor on the side because I do agree with your point of monitors being a separate entity. There are programs from dividing the space of monitors but if you’re used to multiple monitors I don’t think switching to a single monitor of any size will be a good replacement. I think it’s also worth throwing in that watching movies on my ultrawide is my favorite place to do it as the 21:9 aspect ratio means that movies stretch to the entire screen. It’s definitely an amazing experience.
  - chevill 5y ago
    >In the beginning ultrawide support was hit or miss but at this point I’d safely say 90-95% of games support ultrawide. There's support, and then there's that support being so flawless that its the same quality of experience you would get with a standard aspect ratio. Each of us has our own standard of what's good enough. Its working out for you but the people I game with that were using ultra-wide monitors switched back due to the number of issues they were having, as recently as last year. I did some research myself when I was upgrading my monitor and some of the games I played would have had issues so or me personally it wasn't good enough. Another thing to consider is a lot of game content is designed with standard aspect ratios in mind, so whether expanding the viewpoint makes it better is going to be a personal standard. It will be interesting to see if UW monitors do become a standard in a couple of decades whether game developers start specifically making content that utilizes the extra space to offer something that isn't possible with existing games.
bobmaxup 5y ago
How do you deal with full screen video, games, etc on a single monitor?
redm 5y ago
8k is 4x the resolution of 4k at a 16:9 aspect ratio. It would require supporting 4x 4k displays. Example: https://i.pcmag.com/imagery/articles/07toBDd6lpyucCyM0xWrcQv-1.fit_lim.size_1942x1089.v_1569470731.jpg https://i.pcmag.com/imagery/articles/07toBDd6lpyucCyM0xWrcQv...
jedberg 5y ago
I much prefer two monitors. I run each one as separate desktops, which means I can have "left screen apps" and "right screen apps" and cycle them independently. It also means I can switch desktops on my left screen while my apps on my right screen stay where they are. Also, with two screens, I can adjust the angle between them to be more or less severe.
- GordonS 5y ago
  Yeah, I even actually kind of like the "post" between monitors that the GP mentioned (as long as the bezels are thin :) - it help as a kind of mental division between types of work. Also, 2 monitors means more choice in layout; for example, my 2nd monitor is in portrait orientation.
ticviking 5y ago
Only if I can have a nice tiling WM. I work on mac all day and on my 1440p widescreen I am constantly trying to put stuff so I can use everything I want to at the same time. `[Code|App|Docs]` is so common we ought to be able to split a wide screen 3 ways the way we do a normal 2.
- spockz 5y ago
  Try out Rectangle.app. It saved my bacon mentally and can tile windows how you want. Just not automatically like a full tiling window manager. https://rectangleapp.com/ https://rectangleapp.com/
  - Cd00d 5y ago
    +1 on Rectangle recommendation. Learn a few hot-keys (or rely on the menubar dropdown) and you can very easily get any layout of windows you want. I was using Spectacle before, but I think the project died, and Rectangle is what I use now.
- bartvk 5y ago
  Rectangle was mentioned, but I'm currently using Amethyst: https://github.com/ianyh/Amethyst https://github.com/ianyh/Amethyst It was recommended to me here on HN, and it's been very, very nice.
prawn 5y ago
I'd prefer two distinct monitors. I use one more expensive colour-calibrated one, and then a standard one for work where colour isn't as critical. A large colour-calibrated screen would be prohibitively expensive.

Chazprime 5y ago

I suspect that the MacBook Pro 16 will probably one of the first M2 offerings and it already offers up to 64g of RAM, so hopefully you’ll get your wish.

esotericsean 5y ago
This is exactly what I've been waiting for!

octopoc 5y ago

The latest Macbook Pro 16" supports 32GB or 64GB RAM [1]. It's been that way for a few generations. I have the 2018 model and it has 32GB. I think that might have been the first generation where that much RAM was supported. [1] https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-16/specs/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-16/specs/ edit: oh right, that's not M1 brainfart

wombat-man 5y ago
yeah but they want that with apple silicon
martimarkov 5y ago
Yea but that one uses the intel cpu. The problem with M1 is that it only supports up to 16 right now. And no eGPU. :/
jonwachob91 5y ago
Those are intel based Macs. This being an article about the M1 going into mass production, it's probably fair to say the parent comment was referring to those specs in an M1 Mac, not an intel Mac.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

jbluepolarbear 5y ago

I use a Wavlink 4K dock to drive 2 4K monitors on my Mac.

samgranieri 5y ago
I've got a Caldigit TS3
- erikpukinskis 5y ago
  Sansibit MM4 for me

lizknope 5y ago

Does it support two 4K monitors now? I have an old Macbook from 2013 that runs Linux now with an Intel integrated GPU and it supports dual 4K monitors at 30Hz. I use the Thunderbolt ports as Mini DisplayPort outputs and connect to two 4K monitors with DisplayPort and it works fine.

clashmoore 5y ago
M1 laptops can only support one external display at 6k and 60Hz. The other video goes to the laptop's own display. Even if you use the laptop closed in clamshell mode you can't connect or daisy chain to more than one external display. The mini can support two external displays. One via thunderbolt at that same 6k and 60Hz and the other a 4k at 60Hz through the HDMI port.
- staticfloat 5y ago
  Note that the restriction on external monitors can be worked around by using a DisplayLink compatible dongle/dock, since it uses a custom driver (I assume it does something in software that would otherwise be limited in hardware). I use the Dell D6000 and I run three (1080p) external monitors in addition to the built in monitor.
  - clashmoore 5y ago
    I've been trying to find a DisplayLink dock that can output video via USB-C or Thunderbolt. Everybody's shared solutions always involve HDMI connections, never USB-C. I have two Thunderbolt/USB-C monitors that I was hoping to daisy chain with one wire from my Mac. Alas it's not possible. My hope is power into a dock. Thunderbolt from dock to laptop to power laptop. Thunderbolt/USB-C from dock into first monitor. Second Thunderbolt/USB-C from dock using the DisplayLink tech to second monitor.
    - jsjohnst 5y ago
      You won’t find a Displaylink adapter that supports Thunderbolt monitors. It just won’t work from a technical aspect.

aldanor 5y ago

Really hoping for 128-256gb ram limit, perhaps on a separate ddr. E.g., any sort of serious data science work is now impossible on m1s simply because of ram limits.

dman 5y ago
In a laptop?
- forgetfulness 5y ago
  Maybe the commenter has a very interesting use for it, but why would you buy a 256 GB RAM machine (which isn't a lot of memory for this arena either) to develop the model, instead of using something smaller to work on it and leasing a big cluster for the minutes to hours of the day that you'll need to train it on the actual dataset?
  - aldanor 5y ago
    Kicking learns off on a cluster is surely a thing as well. And in some fields, as you correctly mentioned, memory requirements may be measured in terabytes. It's more of a 'production use case' though - what I meant is the 'dev use case'. For instance, playing with mid/high frequency market data, plotting various things, just quickly looking at the data and various metrics, trying and testing things out often requires up too 100gb of memory at disposal at any time. It's definitely not only about model training. And 'something smaller to work on' principle doesn't always work in these cases. If the whole thing fits in my local ram, I would of course prefer to work on it locally until I actually need cluster resources. (But seriously though... what is 16gb these days? Looking at process monitor, I think my firefox takes over 5gb now since I have over a thousand tabs in treestyletab, clion + pycharm take another 5gb, parallels vm for some work stuff is another 10gb; if doing any local data science work that's usually at least a dozen gb or a few dozen or more)
  - nonameiguess 5y ago
    I don't do this kind of thing any more, but back when I did, the one thing that consistently bit me was exploratory analysis requiring one-hot encoding of categorical data where you might have thousands upon thousands of categories. Take something like the Walmart shopper segmentation challenge on Kaggle that a hobbyist might want to take a shot at. That's just exploratory analysis, not model training. Having to do that in the cloud would be quite annoying when your feedback loop involves updating plots that you would really like to have in-memory on a machine connected to your monitor. Granted, you can forward a Jupyter server from an EC2, but also the high-memory EC2s are extremely expensive for hobbyists, way more than just buying your own RAM if you're going to do it often.

atonse 5y ago

Compared to M1? Because my Intel MBP has done that for years. I now use an M1 mac mini with two 4k monitors (not from one cable though)

dan1234 5y ago
The M1 MacBooks can only drive 1 external monitor because they're already driving the internal display.
thruhiker 5y ago
I have a 2018 Mac Mini driving two 4K displays with Display Port over USB-C cables. I previously was driving 2 x 24" 2K displays (same cables) and had no performance problems. Once I upgraded to the 4K displays I've observed very noticeable display draw performance issues. It's not enough for me to give up the 4K displays but I'm wondering if this is improved on the current M1 Mac mini?
- atonse 5y ago
  I haven’t noticed any display lag on my end. But I don’t do latency sensitive things like gaming. 1 monitor (Dell P2715Q) is hooked up using DisplayPort. The other (LG 27” IPS 4K) is using HDMI 2.0. Both are running 4K retina at 60Hz without any issues. I had so much trouble finding this out before I bought it which is why I am vocal about the fact that it works.
  - thruhiker 5y ago
    Thanks for the information! I am tempted to upgrade my 2018 when the next revision (M1X or M2?) Mac mini comes out to improve the display refresh rate issues.

atomlib 5y ago

You can achieve that and even more if you do the right thing and stay with the x86-64.

christkv 5y ago

or 16gb high speed on die and another pool of DDR4 memory outside.

DCKing 5y ago

The current RAM restrictions in the M1 are dumb restrictions resulting from the fact that you can't get LPDDR4X chips larger than 8GB in size (the M1 has two on SoC LPDDR4X chips). This year we should see a lot of CPU manufacturers change to (LP)DDR5 for memory - high end Samsung and Qualcomm SoCs are already using LPDDR5. It's a safe bet Apple is also switching to LPDDR5 which would put the upper limit on 64GB for the M2. This is notably still lower than the 128GB you can put in the current 27" iMac (for an eye watering $2600 extra), but is an amount far more pro users can live with.

hajile 5y ago
Samsung makes a very large 12GB module. I’m sure that offering would be taken advantage of by a lot of people if they’d just put it in the table. The real issue is not shipping the M1 with LPDDR5 support. We already have tons of Qualcomm phones and even Intel processors shipping with since last year. If Apple had done the same, we wouldn’t be talking about this today.
- DCKing 5y ago
  > The real issue is not shipping the M1 with LPDDR5 support. I brought this up before but it was pointed out to me that the only manufacturer of LPDDR5 last year was Samsung, which was producing not-completely-standardized LPDDR5 at the time and probably didn't have enough spare volume for Apple anyway. Having 12GB LPDDR4X modules from one vendor (24GB total) probably is not enough reason for Apple to switch up their supply chain either, not for the M1 at least. And, to be fair, I think Apple did get away with shipping low memory computers by targeting only their cheapest computers.
  - jolux 5y ago
    16GB is not "low memory" for the vast majority of users.
    - monocasa 5y ago
      You'd be surprised how quickly a regular user can eat that these days with electron apps and a browser. My MIL would pretty routinely get out of memory errors at 16GB and she's hardly a power user. Somehow her Facebook tab would clock in at over a GB alone.

dmitriid 5y ago

I really want Apple to actually support external monitor properly. Here's an incomplete and continuously updated list of monitors (not) working with Apple hardware: https://tonsky.me/blog/monitors-mac/ https://tonsky.me/blog/monitors-mac/

lowbloodsugar 5y ago
I finally bought an external graphics card bay for my i9 15", and now it's obsolete. =)

Tuna-Fish 5y ago

> have an option to buy 32 gigs of ram. I think it's quite likely that M2 will have a 128-bit lpddr5 interface. Using widely available modules, this would allow them up to 64GB ram.

EricE 5y ago
I would love that! I got an M1 MacBook Air - unfortunately it was so good I found it could run the games I like perfectly well, which I hadn't planned on doing. It ran everything just fine except for Cities:Skylines. I have way to many mods and assets for 16GB of RAM to be reasonable, so it was with much reluctance I took it back on the last day of my return window. Being able to drop my Windows gaming PC and consolidate everything onto one machine will be very nice though! And I may spring for a larger size screen if I am going to have to abandon the MBA class of machine. Returning it still hurts. I was really hoping for something that would take more than 32GB of RAM but am not surprised that it's still going to be later this year. The guts in the new iMac would be perfect for my Mom if they just offered a 27" replacement too. Oh well. A few more months won't kill me.

2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago

I'm no silicon architect but isn't this why performance is so good? They can cut out all those extra pcie lanes and extraneous stuff and focus on performance. If you start adding back big I/O won't you just be back down to Earth with everyone else?

adgjlsfhk1 5y ago
Not really. The main reason the M1 doesn't have good IO is that it's a beefed up ipad CPU. This was the first generation where they were putting the chips in systems that can use IO, so they probably are just behind on the design for those parts of the chip.
- mcphage 5y ago
  > The main reason the M1 doesn't have good IO is that it's a beefed up ipad CPU. This was the first generation where they were putting the chips in systems that can use IO Could you explain what you mean by this? I don't think I understand.
  - hans-moleman 5y ago
    All of Apple’s prior ARM experience comes from iOS devices. They had no need to develop io capabilities for iPhones and iPads with a single port. Now they put the chips in computers but most likely haven’t fully yet developed extended io capabilities.
    - mcphage 5y ago
      Hmm, but wouldn't features like wifi, all the cameras, the touchscreen, Cellular data, NFC, touch ID, speakers, bluetooth, and so on all come in via IO as well? You're right that they only have one port, but they still connect to a lot of different components.
      - dijit 5y ago
        Those usually connect over serial-esque busses, and they connect via a security chip. (Akin to the t2 chip but much lighter) A far cry from the kind of tolerances and sustained high throughput of PCIe.

ojbyrne 5y ago

My current MBP drives 3 4K monitors and has 64 gigs of ram. Perhaps I’m not clear on the point you’re trying to make.

prawn 5y ago
They're talking about M1 or better. My M1 13" MBP with 8GB RAM is far superior to my 2015 MBP (with more RAM) when it comes to video editing, etc. First in my wishlist would be re-adding two external displays, then more RAM.

busymom0 5y ago

> buy 32 gigs of ram Even their Mac mini doesn't offer a 32 gigs of ram. One of the reasons I had to go with Intel version instead of M1 because at least I could upgrade to 32gb ram myself (plus was cheaper). There is no reason why they can't offer 32 gigs ram on non-laptop lines.