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If Apple is having this kind of success, it seems they should look to compete in the data center with this or the following generation of chips. I wonder if it

If Apple is having this kind of success, it seems they should look to compete in the data center with this or the following generation of chips. I wonder if it is a good time to invest in Apple.

lumost 5y ago
I'm really curious how this will play out. DataCenters haven't been apple's market for a long time, and the requirements of datacenter customers are kinda anti-apple these days. More likely I would see Apple making an exclusive server chip licensing arrangement with ARM or something similar.
- sesteel 5y ago
  High throughput at relatively low power. To me, it seems like a match made in heaven. There is the practicality of building rock solid containerization on these CPUs. I don't know where that stands, but it seems like an obvious fit.
  - lumost 5y ago
    It would be great, but do you see Apple making commodity datacenter hardware for running Linux/Windows?
pjmlp 5y ago
I doubt that they would bother with the 2nd coming of macOS Server for anything other than Apple shops.
jfb 5y ago
What's in it for Apple? I'm not trying to be glib, here, but unless there were some Mac only server functionality, nobody would buy an Apple ARM powered datacentre machine.
- mcintyre1994 5y ago
  What if Rosetta 2 was that Mac only server functionality? I don't know that they'd do it, but from M1 Mac reviews it sounds like M1 + Rosetta 2 will run at least some x86 code faster and more power efficiently than any competitor. I don't know how feasible it is to scale that up to a datacenter though, and I expect MacOS licensing costs would wipe away any power efficiency gains. But I do wonder if they could hypothetically scale up and beat the best Intel/AMD have to offer just using Rosetta 2 to translate x86 code.
- gpm 5y ago
  Eh, the Asahi linux people already have linux running on this chip. What's in it for Apple is money and better economies of scale for chips. But I don't really think it fits Apple's MO so I doubt they'll do it.
  - mumblemumble 5y ago
    MO is my thought, too. Getting back into server hardware would require supporting a vastly different kind of client, and possibly require them to start doing some things that they, as a company, might find distasteful. Supporting equipment they stopped making a long time ago, for example. Including maintaining stockpiles of replacement parts.
  - AceJohnny2 5y ago
    > Eh, the Asahi linux people already have linux running on this chip More specifically, people are running Linux on the CPu cores. The M1 is a system-on-chip, and according to the floorplan [1], the CPUs are maybe 1/5th of the chip. There are many other features that aren't unlocked, such as GPU (which is a brand new architecture) or power management. The latter is key to exploiting the chip to its full performance envelope. I don't expect Asahi to get anywhere further than proof-of-concept before it becomes obsolete by the march of the silicon industry. [1] https://images.anandtech.com/doci/16226/M1.png https://images.anandtech.com/doci/16226/M1.png
    - gpm 5y ago
varispeed 5y ago
I think if they ever released the servers, they would want a total control over what you run on them, so you couldn't just upload your service, Apple would have to approve it first.
- Toutouxc 5y ago
  How does that even make sense? You can run anything on Macs, and these are one level less enterprisey.
Thaxll 5y ago
How would they be succesful in DC? Designing a product for consumers is very different than for servers. On top of that you add terrible server support for MacOS.
- jbverschoor 5y ago
  They only need to support a Linux kernel. They’ve used google cloud, azure, now aws. The contract is worth billions, and will end in 23 or 24.it’s very likely they’ll at least sun their own cloud completely. And maybe they’ll compete as a public cloud later
jagger27 5y ago
If they were to (re)enter this market they'd have to support Linux, which I just don't see happening. What's interesting to me is to see if they'll use M-series chips in their own datacenters. They already run Linux there apparently.
oblio 5y ago
Do you mean that they should start making and selling servers? It's unlikely. Or do you mean that they'll start selling parts (SoCs)? Not in a million years :-)
- sesteel 5y ago
  I am just trying to forecast how bright Apple's future is. Seems like they have options. So, is there going to be a shift towards ARM/RISC in general or not. If so, where do I put my money?
  - oblio 5y ago
    Well, speaking for Apple, Apple 99% sells consumer products. So look for big consumer products markets which they haven't entered. Cars would be one of those markets, for example. AR/VR/more wearables would be another. Home appliances/electronics would be another.
johnwalkr 5y ago
I think they will soon, but only for a specific use-case: MacOS and iOS development. Devops in cloud is expected these days for development and the only offerings available for it are basically mac minis jammed into a rack, often with grey-area virtual machines running. A new Xserve model and Xserve cloud service would be great!

If Apple is having this kind of success, it seems they should look to compete in the data center with this or the following generation of chips. I wonder if it is a good time to invest in Apple.

lumost 5y ago

I'm really curious how this will play out. DataCenters haven't been apple's market for a long time, and the requirements of datacenter customers are kinda anti-apple these days. More likely I would see Apple making an exclusive server chip licensing arrangement with ARM or something similar.

sesteel 5y ago
High throughput at relatively low power. To me, it seems like a match made in heaven. There is the practicality of building rock solid containerization on these CPUs. I don't know where that stands, but it seems like an obvious fit.
- lumost 5y ago
  It would be great, but do you see Apple making commodity datacenter hardware for running Linux/Windows?

pjmlp 5y ago

I doubt that they would bother with the 2nd coming of macOS Server for anything other than Apple shops.

jfb 5y ago

What's in it for Apple? I'm not trying to be glib, here, but unless there were some Mac only server functionality, nobody would buy an Apple ARM powered datacentre machine.

mcintyre1994 5y ago
What if Rosetta 2 was that Mac only server functionality? I don't know that they'd do it, but from M1 Mac reviews it sounds like M1 + Rosetta 2 will run at least some x86 code faster and more power efficiently than any competitor. I don't know how feasible it is to scale that up to a datacenter though, and I expect MacOS licensing costs would wipe away any power efficiency gains. But I do wonder if they could hypothetically scale up and beat the best Intel/AMD have to offer just using Rosetta 2 to translate x86 code.
gpm 5y ago
Eh, the Asahi linux people already have linux running on this chip. What's in it for Apple is money and better economies of scale for chips. But I don't really think it fits Apple's MO so I doubt they'll do it.
- mumblemumble 5y ago
  MO is my thought, too. Getting back into server hardware would require supporting a vastly different kind of client, and possibly require them to start doing some things that they, as a company, might find distasteful. Supporting equipment they stopped making a long time ago, for example. Including maintaining stockpiles of replacement parts.
- AceJohnny2 5y ago
  > Eh, the Asahi linux people already have linux running on this chip More specifically, people are running Linux on the CPu cores. The M1 is a system-on-chip, and according to the floorplan [1], the CPUs are maybe 1/5th of the chip. There are many other features that aren't unlocked, such as GPU (which is a brand new architecture) or power management. The latter is key to exploiting the chip to its full performance envelope. I don't expect Asahi to get anywhere further than proof-of-concept before it becomes obsolete by the march of the silicon industry. [1] https://images.anandtech.com/doci/16226/M1.png https://images.anandtech.com/doci/16226/M1.png
  - gpm 5y ago

varispeed 5y ago

I think if they ever released the servers, they would want a total control over what you run on them, so you couldn't just upload your service, Apple would have to approve it first.

Toutouxc 5y ago
How does that even make sense? You can run anything on Macs, and these are one level less enterprisey.

Thaxll 5y ago

How would they be succesful in DC? Designing a product for consumers is very different than for servers. On top of that you add terrible server support for MacOS.

jbverschoor 5y ago
They only need to support a Linux kernel. They’ve used google cloud, azure, now aws. The contract is worth billions, and will end in 23 or 24.it’s very likely they’ll at least sun their own cloud completely. And maybe they’ll compete as a public cloud later

jagger27 5y ago

If they were to (re)enter this market they'd have to support Linux, which I just don't see happening. What's interesting to me is to see if they'll use M-series chips in their own datacenters. They already run Linux there apparently.

oblio 5y ago

Do you mean that they should start making and selling servers? It's unlikely. Or do you mean that they'll start selling parts (SoCs)? Not in a million years :-)

sesteel 5y ago
I am just trying to forecast how bright Apple's future is. Seems like they have options. So, is there going to be a shift towards ARM/RISC in general or not. If so, where do I put my money?
- oblio 5y ago
  Well, speaking for Apple, Apple 99% sells consumer products. So look for big consumer products markets which they haven't entered. Cars would be one of those markets, for example. AR/VR/more wearables would be another. Home appliances/electronics would be another.

johnwalkr 5y ago

I think they will soon, but only for a specific use-case: MacOS and iOS development. Devops in cloud is expected these days for development and the only offerings available for it are basically mac minis jammed into a rack, often with grey-area virtual machines running. A new Xserve model and Xserve cloud service would be great!