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> People in these EV conversations tend to underappreciate the magic of simply being able to pull into a gas station in “AnywhereTown” with an ICE vehicle, top

> People in these EV conversations tend to underappreciate the magic of simply being able to pull into a gas station in “AnywhereTown” with an ICE vehicle, top up the tank in less than 15 minutes, and then drive another 500 miles or whatever. You are driving EV cars wrong. > EVs don’t do that. In an EV, you drive for a few hundred miles at best, then you spend 30-60 minutes at a supercharger if you’re lucky If you do this, you will have a terrible experience! EVs charge ultra fast when the battery is low. You are supposed to drive them down to say 10%, then charge up to around 50% repeatedly. This takes.. 10 minutes. You drive for 200 miles or so, stop for 10 minutes, repeat. It's pretty reasonable to take a 10 minute break every 2.5 hours. On an 8 hour (500 mile) drive, you will charge for 30 minutes or so. You should start using abetterrouteplanner.com I bet, that when you go on a 500 mile drive, you are stopping that often to use the facilities and get some food already. Nothing changes. > Because of the above dynamic, EV range figures can be a bit misleading The corrected dynamic shows that EV range figures are spot on and you lose no time on long drives. > Tesla’s supercharger stations are also a magnet for criminals — got the feeling I was being cased once at the Austin supercharger. (“The future is already here—It's just not very evenly distributed”) I have exactly the opposite experience. In my city Tesla chargers are all in good malls, with plenty of people around, and lots of things to do. I've been to far shadier gas stations. > For people who have access to a regular, dedicated charging outlet at home, or at work, an EV could make perfectly good sense For sure. A charger at home is necessary. We had a few months between buying the car and getting the charger installed and the change was just astounding.

RangeAnxiety 6y ago
This seems overly optimistic. I don't even run my ICE tank to 10% because I am concerned that I will run out of gas before finding the next place to fill up. With my EV I am even more concerned, because of all the reasons stated in this thread.
throwawayboise 6y ago
When I drive long distance like that, I stop only for gas, which is almost always available immediately at the end of the highway exit ramp. I use the bathroom and if necessary get food at the same time. Pulling off the road every 2.5 hours and driving to the nearest mall or wherever the charging point is, and then back to the highway, is a complete deal breaker for those types of drives.
- framecowbird 6y ago
  I think this is predicated on having a good enough charging network close to the motorway. It's entirely personal, but I don't like to drive for more than 2.5 hours at a stretch, I find my eyes start to lose a bit of focus and it feels dangerous to me.
- magicalhippo 6y ago
  > nearest mall or wherever the charging point is Like the gas station? Here in Norway most gas station chains are building out chargers, and a lot of them have charging stations right next to them already. After all, gas stations still want to rake in on those snacks and drinks...
- culopatin 6y ago
  Well of course. You’re comparing 120 years of developing a network of ICE cars with what, 10? of EVS? If gas stations got on the “let’s also sell electrical” movement you’d also have much more availability of chargers at any ramp and you could do 10 min partial charges with less anxiety because you’d know that in any other exit you’ll be able to charge. Pointing the obvious is just silly.
  - EricE 6y ago
    >Pointing the obvious is just silly. Just as silly as pretending it's not an issue either :p That's why range extenders are the perfect compromise and I'm excited to see the Mazda solution. A rotary is the perfect engine for a range extender - small, lightweight, few moving parts - and at a fixed speed many of the issues with seals won't be an issue at all. Should be an incredible solution and perfect transitional vehicle.
reducesuffering 6y ago
> If you do this, you will have a terrible experience! EVs charge ultra fast when the battery is low. You are supposed to drive them down to say 10%, then charge up to around 50% repeatedly. This takes.. 10 minutes. You drive for 200 miles or so, stop for 10 minutes, repeat. I'm not sure why you're basing this off the assumption current EV's have 500 miles of range... (10->50% of 500 miles would be those 200 miles you're driving) With actual EV's being more like 250-300, 10->50% is only 100-120 miles. Which leads me to... > It's pretty reasonable to take a 10 minute break every 2.5 hours. That's more like a 10 minute break every 90 minutes, and not very reasonable for trips taking 5-10 hours.
- shiftpgdn 6y ago
  75-80mph with the current range availability on Tesla's, E-tron, mach-e, id.4 etc allows you 2-3 hours at speed before requiring a stop to recharge for 20-30 mins on a DC fast charger. It's not unreasonable and probably makes things safer than the guy who thinks you should 1000+ miles a day with only a single stop to refuel.
jjav 6y ago
> I bet, that when you go on a 500 mile drive, you are stopping that often to use the facilities and get some food already. Nothing changes. Certainly not. For example on a cross country trip the year before the pandemic I drove my regular car. 400 miles between fuel stops, 5-10 minute stop to fill up and hit the bathroom, ready for another 400 miles. Very easy to do over 1000 miles per day with no worries. With my Fiat 500e, it's 80 to 90 miles then stop for 3-5 hours to charge. I plan very hard to never be stuck farther than 40 miles from home with that car. For short errands in town though, it's absolutely perfect! Luckily I can own multiple cars, right tool for each job. But if I could only have one, it would not be electric.
- dougmwne 6y ago
  It's not a fair comparison to look at a vehicle that has less than 100 miles of range and call it bad for road trips. That car is only meant for commuting. Clearly you will spend a lot of time charging such a small battery with a slow charger. The way to do a longer drive with an electric car is to have several hundred miles of range and use DC fast chargers.
  - kd5bjo 6y ago
    Depending on where you live, going on a long road trip can sometimes become a sudden necessity. If I still lived in a hurricane zone, for example, I wouldn’t go anywhere near an EV except as a second car.
- maccard 6y ago
  Driving 1000 miles per day is anywhere between 12 and 14 hours solid driving. You are the outlier of outliers. On a trip that length, hitting any traffic is likely to slow you down more than having to recharge your vehicle. Maybe an electric vehicle on it's current form isn't going to work for you with a regular 1000 mile per day trip, but you're at least 15 years off _new_ petrol vehicle sales being banned, so second hand ones are around for another 25 at least. As an aside, this individualist respond of "well i can't do a 1000 mile road trip in one sitting" is why these vehicles are being phased out by legislation, because people won't even consider the _smallest_ changes to their driving habits without being forced to.
cbmuser 6y ago
> You are driving EV cars wrong. I assume that also includes tours through the Australian outback or the Siberian winter? I can refuel an ICE car everywhere within minutes with just a canister. No need for a dedicated refueling spot aka gas station.
- light_hue_1 6y ago
  As someone else said. It's interesting that the negative responses to this are all incredibly extreme. Someone who likes to drive 1000 miles per day with a 10 minute stop in total. Someone who drives through the Siberian winter. The vast, vast, vast, majority of the population, even the rural population, isn't doing this.
- cptskippy 6y ago
  > I assume that also includes tours through the Australian outback or the Siberian winter? Yes, I frequently take my Toyota Carrolla across the Sahara in June. Until they make an EV that can do that in one trip, they're utterly useless to everyone everywhere under any circumstances.
- UncleMeat 6y ago
  The people who like doing that can buy ICE cars. This represents a teeny tiny minority of all car use. I'd wager that more than half of the driving population of the US has never in their lives driven in a place with hundreds of miles between fill stations.
EricE 6y ago
>You are driving EV cars wrong. And that's why EVs as currently pitched will NEVER take off. Heck you probably lost the majority of readers of this site, many of which probably have pretty pro-EV leanings when you start blaming the user. If you are trying to win someone over to your side, telling them they are doing it wrong is NOT a great way to keep them engaged or convince them. For example - you could point out that sure, EVs don't work exactly the same way as gasoline cars, but for these trade offs you get these other benefits. Not by hitting them over the head with "your doing it wrong". Good grief. >I bet, that when you go on a 500 mile drive, you are stopping that often to use the facilities and get some food already. Nothing changes. Granted I'm probably not most people, but I'm far from in a minority that when I'm doing a long drive I just go. The only time I stop is to get more fuel which I may combine with a meal, maybe not. And I've never had that take more than 30 minutes. I've crossed the US in three days more times than I care to admit and have maybe one more of those trips left to face. And that's leaving me some nice time to have dinner/sleep and a decent breakfast before setting back out. Someone really motivated could probably do it in two but I think it's important to get good sleep when on those kinds of drives. Waiting around 45 minutes every 200-300 miles is ludicrous. While I don't relish those trips, I relish being at my destination more than I do the drive to get there so an EV would be a huge downgrade and handicap. And at least one, if not two more nights of hotel bills. No thanks!

RangeAnxiety 6y ago

This seems overly optimistic. I don't even run my ICE tank to 10% because I am concerned that I will run out of gas before finding the next place to fill up. With my EV I am even more concerned, because of all the reasons stated in this thread.

throwawayboise 6y ago

When I drive long distance like that, I stop only for gas, which is almost always available immediately at the end of the highway exit ramp. I use the bathroom and if necessary get food at the same time. Pulling off the road every 2.5 hours and driving to the nearest mall or wherever the charging point is, and then back to the highway, is a complete deal breaker for those types of drives.

framecowbird 6y ago
I think this is predicated on having a good enough charging network close to the motorway. It's entirely personal, but I don't like to drive for more than 2.5 hours at a stretch, I find my eyes start to lose a bit of focus and it feels dangerous to me.
magicalhippo 6y ago
> nearest mall or wherever the charging point is Like the gas station? Here in Norway most gas station chains are building out chargers, and a lot of them have charging stations right next to them already. After all, gas stations still want to rake in on those snacks and drinks...
culopatin 6y ago
Well of course. You’re comparing 120 years of developing a network of ICE cars with what, 10? of EVS? If gas stations got on the “let’s also sell electrical” movement you’d also have much more availability of chargers at any ramp and you could do 10 min partial charges with less anxiety because you’d know that in any other exit you’ll be able to charge. Pointing the obvious is just silly.
- EricE 6y ago
  >Pointing the obvious is just silly. Just as silly as pretending it's not an issue either :p That's why range extenders are the perfect compromise and I'm excited to see the Mazda solution. A rotary is the perfect engine for a range extender - small, lightweight, few moving parts - and at a fixed speed many of the issues with seals won't be an issue at all. Should be an incredible solution and perfect transitional vehicle.

reducesuffering 6y ago

> If you do this, you will have a terrible experience! EVs charge ultra fast when the battery is low. You are supposed to drive them down to say 10%, then charge up to around 50% repeatedly. This takes.. 10 minutes. You drive for 200 miles or so, stop for 10 minutes, repeat. I'm not sure why you're basing this off the assumption current EV's have 500 miles of range... (10->50% of 500 miles would be those 200 miles you're driving) With actual EV's being more like 250-300, 10->50% is only 100-120 miles. Which leads me to... > It's pretty reasonable to take a 10 minute break every 2.5 hours. That's more like a 10 minute break every 90 minutes, and not very reasonable for trips taking 5-10 hours.

shiftpgdn 6y ago
75-80mph with the current range availability on Tesla's, E-tron, mach-e, id.4 etc allows you 2-3 hours at speed before requiring a stop to recharge for 20-30 mins on a DC fast charger. It's not unreasonable and probably makes things safer than the guy who thinks you should 1000+ miles a day with only a single stop to refuel.

jjav 6y ago

> I bet, that when you go on a 500 mile drive, you are stopping that often to use the facilities and get some food already. Nothing changes. Certainly not. For example on a cross country trip the year before the pandemic I drove my regular car. 400 miles between fuel stops, 5-10 minute stop to fill up and hit the bathroom, ready for another 400 miles. Very easy to do over 1000 miles per day with no worries. With my Fiat 500e, it's 80 to 90 miles then stop for 3-5 hours to charge. I plan very hard to never be stuck farther than 40 miles from home with that car. For short errands in town though, it's absolutely perfect! Luckily I can own multiple cars, right tool for each job. But if I could only have one, it would not be electric.

dougmwne 6y ago
It's not a fair comparison to look at a vehicle that has less than 100 miles of range and call it bad for road trips. That car is only meant for commuting. Clearly you will spend a lot of time charging such a small battery with a slow charger. The way to do a longer drive with an electric car is to have several hundred miles of range and use DC fast chargers.
- kd5bjo 6y ago
  Depending on where you live, going on a long road trip can sometimes become a sudden necessity. If I still lived in a hurricane zone, for example, I wouldn’t go anywhere near an EV except as a second car.
maccard 6y ago
Driving 1000 miles per day is anywhere between 12 and 14 hours solid driving. You are the outlier of outliers. On a trip that length, hitting any traffic is likely to slow you down more than having to recharge your vehicle. Maybe an electric vehicle on it's current form isn't going to work for you with a regular 1000 mile per day trip, but you're at least 15 years off _new_ petrol vehicle sales being banned, so second hand ones are around for another 25 at least. As an aside, this individualist respond of "well i can't do a 1000 mile road trip in one sitting" is why these vehicles are being phased out by legislation, because people won't even consider the _smallest_ changes to their driving habits without being forced to.

cbmuser 6y ago

> You are driving EV cars wrong. I assume that also includes tours through the Australian outback or the Siberian winter? I can refuel an ICE car everywhere within minutes with just a canister. No need for a dedicated refueling spot aka gas station.

light_hue_1 6y ago
As someone else said. It's interesting that the negative responses to this are all incredibly extreme. Someone who likes to drive 1000 miles per day with a 10 minute stop in total. Someone who drives through the Siberian winter. The vast, vast, vast, majority of the population, even the rural population, isn't doing this.
cptskippy 6y ago
> I assume that also includes tours through the Australian outback or the Siberian winter? Yes, I frequently take my Toyota Carrolla across the Sahara in June. Until they make an EV that can do that in one trip, they're utterly useless to everyone everywhere under any circumstances.
UncleMeat 6y ago
The people who like doing that can buy ICE cars. This represents a teeny tiny minority of all car use. I'd wager that more than half of the driving population of the US has never in their lives driven in a place with hundreds of miles between fill stations.

EricE 6y ago

>You are driving EV cars wrong. And that's why EVs as currently pitched will NEVER take off. Heck you probably lost the majority of readers of this site, many of which probably have pretty pro-EV leanings when you start blaming the user. If you are trying to win someone over to your side, telling them they are doing it wrong is NOT a great way to keep them engaged or convince them. For example - you could point out that sure, EVs don't work exactly the same way as gasoline cars, but for these trade offs you get these other benefits. Not by hitting them over the head with "your doing it wrong". Good grief. >I bet, that when you go on a 500 mile drive, you are stopping that often to use the facilities and get some food already. Nothing changes. Granted I'm probably not most people, but I'm far from in a minority that when I'm doing a long drive I just go. The only time I stop is to get more fuel which I may combine with a meal, maybe not. And I've never had that take more than 30 minutes. I've crossed the US in three days more times than I care to admit and have maybe one more of those trips left to face. And that's leaving me some nice time to have dinner/sleep and a decent breakfast before setting back out. Someone really motivated could probably do it in two but I think it's important to get good sleep when on those kinds of drives. Waiting around 45 minutes every 200-300 miles is ludicrous. While I don't relish those trips, I relish being at my destination more than I do the drive to get there so an EV would be a huge downgrade and handicap. And at least one, if not two more nights of hotel bills. No thanks!